What ‘facts’ are you talking about?

We don’t have any facts. All we have is hearsay, and it’s my claim that the hearsay we have is the distorted illusions of the authors.

There are no ‘facts’. All that exists is documents written by authors who where clearly biased and had an agenda. There is no reason whatsoever that I should believe that it isn’t all just pure demagoguery. Not a single solitary reason.

On the contrary, there are uncountable reasons why I should believe that it’s just local Mediterranean folklore based on myths.

Here are just a few…

http://www.pocm.info/index.html

Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi The Jews have alway been monotheistic. They were the first monotheists. This has always been a fact. im not saying theres anything wrong with pantheism. Im just saying the fact that Jesus was a committed monotheist just like all of his people.

The Jewish people have always been monotheist. They apparently created monotheism when everyone else was polytheistic and paganistic. They were the only monotheists for centurys. Jesus was jewish. This has always been known. Jesus introduced and made monotheism popular to the rest of the world. This is what happened. There is no chance that Jesus was anything other than monotheistic. There is nothing wrong with pantheism but Jesus was not a pantheist. These are the facts. Im not attacking you, Im answering your question but you dont like the answer.

This is simply NOT TRUE.

He says that to me too.

So maybe it is HE that is confused.

Excuse me, but if you re-read my OP you’ll realize that I suggested that Jesus went to the far east during his missing years and became enlightened to Eastern Mysticism (the pantheistic view). Then he returned and tried to teach it to his brothers within the context of their preexisting beliefs.

Everything in my scenario fits together perfectly.

Just because a person is born Jewish doesn’t mean they need to believe in Judaism. Jewish can refer to either nationality or religion. There are “Jewish” people who have converted to Christianity for example.

Einstein was “Jewish” yet he clearly supported Buddhism.

Just because Jesus was born as Jew doesn’t imply that he had to believe what they believed.

So there is a chance that Jesus became enlightened to Eastern Mysticism. A very good chance. And that would explain why he continually said things like he and the father are ‘one’ (the pantheistic view) and ‘ye are also gods’ (the pantheistic view).

He also basically taught the 12 laws of karma which seem to fly in the face of the teachings of the old testament. Things like turn the other cheek rather than seeking revenge, etc.

Makes perfect sense to me.

The Hebrews are the direct descendents of Abraham the creator of monotheism. The Hebrews are the people we call the Jews.Im sure that not every single Jewish person was a monotheist, but this is what set the Jews apart for many centuries. Jesus was a Jew. Jesus was a rabbi. Jesus was a monotheist and nothing else sweetheart. I respect you Jeaniebean I think your highly intelligent You have a tendancy to talk in terms of mysticism. Im looking at what we can prove and disprove Im looking at it from a historical perspective.

The jest of the bible (context) or fables as you and abra like to refer to them have never changed......interpretations when people take the text and change it to fit their needs...and yes I have read many, so I am not clueless.....and know the difference between KJV, original Aramaeic version, etc.....I use an Open Bible Study Bible which I love because it has extra gizmos that I find very useful....and historical documents and much more......so yes cs I am aware.....and glad you are still around.....no matter what you think...I would of missed ya......

What you have that you call "facts" is just the way it is written in history. The true religion of Judaism yes, worship one god. I will agree, that is the way it is written, and it is about Judaism, but not about all Jewish people.

But there are many who call themselves Jews.. by blood, who do not practice Judaism, but use it for their own purposes (just as Christians do.) They are Zionists. Most of them are not true Jews as in.... descendants of the famed Abraham.

People who truly practice their faith, are good people and sincere. But a larger percentage.. are simply politicians and pretenders.

They don't even believe in God. Today, to be a Jew has to do with bloodline, it is not necessarily just a religion. There are two different bloodlines that call themselves Jews, maybe more.

The descendants of Abraham are Semitic Jews and are few and far between, and most Jews are not of that bloodline. They are a race who converted to "Judaism" for political reasons many many years ago.

Also, before Judaism, Jewish people worshiped many Gods. Even today it hard to define who is a Jew and what constitutes a Jewish person. These are the things that need to be discovered and uncovered in order to understand what is going on. But they don't want you to know who they really are. They want to pretend that they are "God's chosen people."


The Bible speaks of Those who claim to be Jews "but are not, and are the synagogue of Satan." I wonder what that could have meant......

Anyway it is not as simple as you might think. There is a lot none of us know. ... and there is "something rotten in Denmark."

jb

yes actually it is quite true......Remember that someone like Moses believed in the one true God....Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all monotheistic religions.

The belief in more than one god. The ancient Greeks, for example, were polytheists; their gods included Apollo, Athena, Dionysus, and Zeus. Or in all your cases Panthiest....who believe that everyone is god......including the flowers, trees and bunny rabbits.....

Love and light to you feral...





Feral, I am trying to be your friend here, whether or not you take this as such, I wish I could help to determine.

I respect you and Abra, but I have never called it a fable... this is yet another bearing of false witness by yourself against my person. Perhaps in an innocently mistaken sort way, yet it is still not true.

The context is determined by what is being understood, which is determined by the words(what) being used. If this were not the case, then it would not be necessary to have so many different translations available, some of which change the context(meaning) by nature.

If there were no change, there would be only one version... unfortunately so, it seems, there are many...


No hard feelings, my apologies for being not the best I could have been...

I do????

I have always considered myself metaphysical but not mystic.

What is Metaphysics?

1: The philosophical study of being and knowing.

2: Metaphysics (Greek words meta = after/beyond and physics = nature) is a branch of philosophy concerned with the study of 'first principles' and 'being' (ontology).

3: The study of the nature and being of reality and its origin and structure.

4: A field of abstract thought and philosophy about topics not on the
concrete or physical level of understanding. This includes subjects like
existence, the soul, being, the supernatural, astral travel and psychicism.
(No. This is new age / postmodern view of metaphysics as 'beyond our senses' rather than correctly as the hidden cause of our senses. However, as the Wave Structure of Matter in Space explains, we are actually structures of the universe and this will explain these 'apparently' supernatural effects / subtle human senses.)

5: The manipulation of noetic symbols as if they were propositions.

6: Derived from the Latin word meta which means beyond, metaphysics would
literally mean that which is beyond the laws of physics. (No. As above, 'beyond our senses' is misleading - metaphysics studies the hidden causal connection of our visible senses.)

7: The study of the ultimate and fundamental reality. (Spot on!)

8: 'Beyond physics.' The branch of philosophy that deals with first
principles and seeks to explain the nature of reality and the origin and
structure of the world. (No. Metaphysics is the source of principles which found physics / science.)

9: Speculative thought about matters outside the perceivable physical world.

10: A branch of philosophy exploring the nature of reality or being, and
usually finding the answers outside the physical world in God.
(No. God is just another human constructed word, so this is meaningless.)

11: Philosophy of the mind, of knowing. (True. Metaphysics must understand how we can see a rock fall - this requires a correct understanding of the mind and how it is connected to the body / other matter in Space.)

12: Philosophic inquiry into the ultimate and fundamental reality; 'the
science of being as such'.

first off my humble apologies for the fable piece.....I thought you did.....so apologies to you cs.

Now onward to the rest......There are no perfect bible scriptures other then the original Aramaeic version which is the Bible in it truest form. But I think what people misunderstand is that when the translations were done over all this time......it was with great care that they were done....and honestly the context is not changed. Now I will give you another example of what I mean....The Jehovah's Witness' version of the scriptures is probably the truest form of the Bible today....However what makes it lack in my opinion is because they take like you said words and change them...which change the whole meaning of the scripture....for example they say a God....which could leave people to believe pretty much anything.....when it should be God........PERIOD.....not yelling just to bring the point home...giggle.

Now then you can take the Mormon version and well it was written with what the Leader of the mormons at the time wanted. and totally goes away from contextual scripture. But when you study the scriptures in all the forms as I have.....the jest of what it is saying has not changed. And to use that as an excuse to defile for me anyway the Bible is pathetic to me.

And you did beautifully mirror.....all you have stated is the truth......Jesus was no more a panthiest then I am or will ever be.

Not a problem feral...

I am a little confused though at your post which I quoted below...



If it is the truest, than the truest it shall be... not less than. I am not understanding whether or not you believe that it is or it is not the truest form of the Bible...

Also, some of the Gospels were written in Greek originally were they not, then, only later translated... Mark maybe????

If you were to take the original Aramaeic version and compare it to the Jehovah's Witness' version as a whole....it is the closest to being as originally written.....and honestly the only part that threw me is when they referred to God as a God....which some could interpret to being a god among many.......Now when I studied with them....even they could not explain this to me....But of all the religions I have studied they taught me the most. And to me they are the most misunderstood.....this is why I didn't take anyones word for anything I studied all....and learned for myself......

Bible refers to the collections of canonical religious writings of Judaism and of Christianity.[1]The books that are considered canon in the Bible vary depending upon the historic tradition using or defining it. These variations are a reflection of the range of traditions and councils that have convened on the subject.

The Jewish version of the Bible, the Tanakh, is divided into three parts: the Teaching, the Prophets, and the Writings. Tanakh is in fact an acronym formed by the initials of the Hebrew names for these sections: Torah, Nevi'im, and Khetuvim. These texts were originally composed in either Hebrew or Aramaic. The Christian versions of the Bible include books of the Tanakh, but include additional books and reorganize them into two major divisions, usually refered to as Old Testament and New Testament, although different Christian traditions may use variations on these titles. Protestant Bibles include all the books of Tanakh in their Old Testament sections. The Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Old Testaments include other texts of Jewish origin that are not considered authoritative (i.e. are non-canonical) in Protestant and Jewish traditions. In some Protestant Bibles these books are included in a separate section with the designation Apocrypha. In Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Bibles these books are fully integrated into the Old Testament, although they are only secondarily authoritative (deutero-canonical) in the Roman Catholic Tradition. These books were mostly composed in Aramaic and Greek. With very few exceptions, Christian canons of the New Testament contain 27 books containing books originally written primarily in Greek.[2]


And as with everything in my life with this being no exception. I am who I am today because of God....plain and simple....What God showed me....and also for the inspired word of God as He Himself led me to. So as I have said many times I can only speak for myself and I can only do the work of the Lord as he leads me to do so....Everything else is not to be bothered with.....For it is only He that I listen to, and only He that leads me on my path....

I stand corrected sweetheart Metaphysics it is. However , Im attempting to discuss this subject in historical terms.

Bad Translations of the Jehovah's Witness Bible,
the New World Translation (NWT).

http://www.carm.org/jw/nwt.htm

Abra, stay calm for this one, please.


These infernal boxes get too big.


intellectualizing Christianity doesn't get you there. It is an experience coming from God alone, ABra.

I know you have tried to press in at one [point in your life and weren;t answered. Your understanding missed the essence of the'within' of Jesus. Look again at it. Look again at my words and open your heart to hear and sense the essence 'within' my words. Don't make snap judgements about them, until you have chewed on them a while.

I repeat. It is not an intellectual discourse. It is fellowship with a mystery and the mystery is unveiled in the relationship,, not in the human comprehension. There are two parts. one is the peace and calm that comes. The rest comes later. But it is a choice and not a compulsion.
That is why you don't understand the difference between the words and the experience. ABra remains Abra. Wouldee remains wouldee. nobody is an autmoton or a robot or a slave or a disgruntled employee. These are carnal observations of a spiritual reality that must be merged with faith in the spirit within, not the soul in deliberations of intellectual discourse.

Still and always a choice. Not a problem.

I wish to remind you of things said long ago by me.

Heaven is not filled exclusively by Christians. This idea that heaven is only Christian is not taught by Jesus, nor is it true from the leadings and learning of the Holy Spirit. Man is known to God and God is acknowledged by all men, but not all remain cognizant of God by choice. Still, Christ is not the only acceptaBLE MEANS OF ENTRANCE. I maintain that as truthful. Christ is offering some of it now and to those that believe he is sent of God and received "as of God also" in the human heart that hears and receives His Words.

The anointing of the Holy Spirit is a serious unction. It is not a toy and not to be taken lightly at all. One's life will change and never be the same. No going back. God doesn't divorce the receiver of his promises.
It is the most serious and deliberate decision one should ever allow to be availed to ones' life.

NOT TO BE TAKEN LIGHTLY BY ANY MEANS!!!!! whole heartedly or not at all. ANything less will get nothing for the effort.

Also,one ought not to take lightly refusing it either.

For some, best to never have heard of it or contemplated it.

Walking away from it, judging by my own experience within the experience, i serious and very much at the heart of God giving His best to whosoever will. It saddens God when people back away. great sadness and sorrow and felt through the Holy Spirit.

This is His best being afforded mankind. He has not offered better. it is not a cavalier and fortuitously beneficial asset to show off with.

With all of that being said, the path one takes in sincerity is known to God and the individual and the peace for that mutual understanding brtween and individual andGod is between the two and none other, in between or otherwise. Whatever it may be.

I say that from where I stand inChrist, having been also outside of Christ within my lifetime. I know that not all in heaven are Christian.

I am not belittling anyone's faith. Nor am I judging the value and content of anyone's soul as lacking or inadequate with regards to one's own conscience before God.

Where I differ from most Christians is in the insight I give of the life inside Christ and what is known to the true Church.

I bash 'christians' all the time, here and elsewhere when they are exemplifying the things we all despise.

I must also suffer the same assault from those that cannot differentiate the difference between my consolations and the half truths of the half baked fruit cakes. It's a metaphor,, not a derogatory depiction if christians I am making, just an illustration for visualizing a balanced perspective of my position in Christ.
I must warn the unruly and be ruly doing so.

I must invite and be uninvited. I must avail and be unavailed.
I also must suffer the affront that such efforts yield.
I must also not become complacent when confronted with hostility.
I must endure the heartaches and the pain of all those that have wrongly suufered at the hands of 'christians'.

I must suffer being one of those 'christians' in the minds of men not so known of the mystery in Christ. The psuedo-christians precede me, but not mine. We were here first. Not me, but they...but we are not the same...what is working through us is the same....and that has never stopped working for 2000 years. It is passed on among us while the pseudo-christians continue on in their errors.

I have inherited the office of the whole ball of wax, Abra.

You and others feel the sting, but I feel the wounds.

we are close to understanding each other but fae from sharing the same experiences.

I have been there. I am not now. I remember it because it is still in me to, but it is dead to me. I am changed.
I was one of those that society never saw.
There are two economies in this country and one of them is still a secret, Abra.

Your life has never been there either, but mine has.

I have lived a life that has seen polar extremes outside of Christ and am tugged on by polar extremes within Christ, but the polar extremes within Christ are no different for me to bear than any outside of Christ...only magnified within me.

I see and acknowledge all of the ills. But they are false representations of the Christian way of life.

There is more for the willing and I share that where it is misapprehended.

I won't share it or continue to burden where silence is given to my attention.

The best way to be rid of me is to ignore me.

The worst way to find out that I am not what one seems is to pigeon hole me. That I will not tolerate with my silence on the matter. I have a responsibility to that strife that has entered another in my name.

Knowing the heart, Abra, is all that matters to me.

hearing the hearts cry is what moves my compassions.

My sympathies are many, but I am not a foolish man with a proud ego. I am an ambassador with a very difficult calling and profession.

I am made all things to all men, as they say.

women and children too, man is made of such.

Look deeper, Abra.

I also tire of being glossed over.\

I have nothing to gain by it. Nothing to lose either.

That's why I love racing....do nothing, and nothing comes of it.
Race to win by racing to mean it. Compete to know what is only known by doing it.
It's the only place this blue eyed white man finds his own resting from political correctness and the constant din of everyone assuming that we are all filthy rich and connected to all the privelges and we must share. We are just men in America in the 21st century being tugged apart by all. no wut i meen?

That's why I race. that's why it is playtime.

feel me?

///

nothing can read any map less it know the key/revelation as put forth by the author that wrote it, and the revelation/key/
understanding/code/ of the entire book be contained in the first pages....PARTAKE NOT OF THE TREE "(we shall be as trees planted by rivers of living water, so trees are people within the pages of this map, as take the highway to heaven was said, so map is the correct key/thinking/revelation)....OF THE KNOWLEDGE (to know or be aware of) OF GOOD AND EVIL.....so hear from the perspective that no good or evil exist, just love.....(look not to the left or right).....
to hear from the perspective of ALL words coming from a most dear best friend, a lover even that wish all GOOD to the one it love......the rest of the book CANNOT be known without doing this....."and the laws/truths of the book have been written on YOUR hearts.......truth/god....rest in the heart of each man, so then children of god is an appropriate term......
what got adam and eve (no need to tell of the life of ALL humans, just one pair as all are the same)...."all men are created equal"......they kicked themself out of where they heard GOD/LOVE/EDEN/........didn't see that map key so just ******misinterpreted the voice that spoke thoughts to them in their minds******what man create his own thoughts? what man has requested his IQ or personality.......IF these things are true, then they change everything since adam and eve......IF they do then it is easy to see where in history we are.....IF they are true many in high places that make billions will not want them to be heard.....IF they are true no man need saving and a BIG business come to an end, to make a NEW beginning.....IF....just questions, thats all