I believe the Bible is God talking to mankind. If it isn't in the Bible, I think there is a good chance it is off base somewhere. Read the book. If you publicly confess Jesus is who he says he is and if you're baptized by immersion into the Lord's life, death and resurrection, you have a good start towards understanding the word of God and who Jesus is. Get into a good church, fellowship with believers, engage in discipleship (learning), a ministry and in mission and you're even further along towards understanding. I don't get mad about contrary teaching at all, I just pray about it. I pray that God will bring revival to my community, my state, the USA and the entire world. The day will arrive and the believers, doing the work of the church, can hasten it. God bless you. I hope you find the truth that you are looking for. I hope that God touches you personally in the near future. If you seek the Lord's face, you will find him. Good luck to you.

Thank you, because I’m totally convinced that Jesus was teaching pantheism and did not support the bigotry of the Old Testament. So that’s what I teach.

It is of my belief that the pure beauty of that which has been attributed to Jesus, is clearly in the parables. I am not so sure of the genuine nature of all that has been attributed to Him. I also find it curious and worthy of mention that not all of the aforementioned prophecies which lie in the Old Testament were, in fact fulfilled, by what has been recorded of Jesus and His life.

It is purely a matter of faith for one to believe that the truth of all matters concerning Jesus and His words and/or life have been accurately recorded, re-recorded, and completely governed by the Spirit.

I truly wonder of some of the authors' intent, more importantly, whether the push was to encourage belief in the fulfillment of the Old Testament prophecies, or to encourage belief in the teachings.

There are so many parables which describe things that are within... so many... I find it quite curious that so many of these made it through the canonization process, almost as if those who viewed did not have the eyes to see the inherent contradictions to the Old Testaments' teaching(s)... or did they? After all, there are four distinctly different general religions, all of which are based on some part of what was at one time, the same scriptures.

The truth of the matter, for me at least, is that Christianity and the teachings contained within Jesus' words deeply affected me and my person. However, I was guided to that which was within myself. The eyes which showed me to myself, were eyes that I had not been using, and for that I am most grateful.

Peace to all...

Live, Love, Learn, Laugh

I agree with James to the fact that God is in everything and in everybody because He is omniscient. That is why in some way or another all of us are looking for Him, in any way we choose.
I have studied christianism through the Catholic church all my life, and nobody has never taught me a concept in which christians believe that we are separated from God. James you have that concept wrong.
The matter of the fact is that we choose not stay closer to God whenever we choose to sin.
I don't agree with you when you say that the Lord came here in a suicidal mission. In that point I feel my friend you lose track in your interpretations (before that you are quite OK.)
Without His resurrection there would not be christianity as a whole.
Another thing with which i agree with you is the fact that God has different manifestations depending on the people and their different cultures. That is why we have islamism, hinduism, christianism, etc. All of which are valid for the simple reason that they try to find perfection and closeness to the Creator.
The Lord said it: "Be perfect as my Father who is in Heaven."
In the encounter with the Samaritan woman the Lord teaches us that salvation and Heaven are meant for the whole world regardless of how they call themselves (samaritan or jewish) (christians or muslims).
As general point of view you have the right idea James. With all due respect you just lose track in a couple of key points which I won't argue because there is no way for me to make you see them.
I will just pray that someday through all your wisdom my friend you will see the right path.

TLW

Abra,

Not knowing how to pick pieces out of these quote boxes makes it difficult to be succinct in conversation, but I am really only interested in responding in this reply to your mention of hearsay regarding the gospel.

It is hearsay. Always was, Abra. Always will be.

It is handed down with power in the Holy Spirit through believers.

Anything serving the Lord on the internet is left to His leading of that individual into the praying hands of one of His own to touch.

Being in the presence of God includes being in the presenrts of His saints too.

They do enter churches.

"Forsake not the assembling together of yourselves as is the custom of some" it has been written to Christians.

That assembling together can cause one to enter int His presence because of the prayer and presence of praying and prayerful saints that walk and talk with Him. That sets apart many if not all debates, but doesn't mean that one in such a presence actually is causal to it as a manifestation.

Being in His presence and not continuingon in Him is not the finished work being offered by the gospel, Abra.

Books and learning do not convey this to any. They convey the offer and its rewards. Its being upon the heart of the believer.

The believer so being indwelt is from God not man and not just an idle grasp of principles or doctrine and certainly not self willed beyond the yielding that brings such fruit from God to bear. It comes through hands and from obedience in the heart. Sometimes instantaneously and sometimes later, but the gift exists and proves the fath acted on. Then the belief of such a revelation can lead to knowledge of what, precisely, has been offered and subsequently received.

True, faith is the key that opens the lock. The key has to match the lock... and the lock must allow the key to turn, in the lock. The soul of man, or his heart, is the lock that keeps Christ out, not the key.

Cant teach the key to the lock. Must allow the lock to be entered with the key, Abra.

It doesn't come from intellectual debate and imperical evidence.

It comes from exercising one's faith to allow the key to tumble the lock and loose the prisoner being held in bondage against its will.

The key is merely a tool to use with the will, but the will must overcome the lock on the heart to know the freedom from the bondages of ignorance.

Most never let the key turn in the lock, they just observe the key.

It is very easy to enter in, iy is not so easy to let the key turn in the lock on the soul, or heart if you will.(excuse the pun)

without the Bible, Christianity has survived. It survived the sequestering of the Holy Bible during the Dark Ages.

It has survived the institutional barriers added to the unecessary complexities displayed about the faith in general owed to denominational divisiveness.

I don't hear Christians touting whether or not they are Baptist, Catholics, Presbyterians, Pentacostals, Charismatics, Methodists, Wesleyan, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, etc. to the degree that they all talk about Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit in the same breath.

It may fall to you and to so many others that fail to grasp the offer, Abra, that you will never comprehend, nor fully understand what sin is until you receive the gift and the blinders come off.

One who would fearully reverence the presence of a Holy God and His souvereign grip on the fate of all mankind would endeavor to keep the law and live within its dictates ,at the very least,to determine through self willed investigation if fulfilling its charge is even possible. Even ifjust an exercise to determine it veracity as an achievable act of the will.

Such a test will prove on every individual that such an effort is unattainably exhausting and debilitating and requires not engaging other humans to guarantee its results. But even then, it has not been tested. The fellowship of man proves its impossibility. It must be tested in the crucible of human iunteraction.

More words ....more exhausting words from another Christian that is blind to the light of your eyes, eh Abra?

It doesn't take 40 years of futile struggle to grasp that which is free. It just takes yielding the will fully and completely to receive , come what may.


But then again. Deconstruction and contradictions accomapany the change of heart.

That is not hypocrisy, Abra. Just a contradiction.

We all must face the same contradiction and be willing to embrace the ridicle of our peers for the change of heart.

But the change of heart will change your peers and over the course of time, one grows stronger in resolve.

The contradictions cease and the calls of hypocrisy fade from the ears, but the heart grows immensely well loved and the Love of God changes the witness of those witnessing the changed.

Faith grows in those that witness the changed life to believe it is possible for them too.

But not everyone will quietly grow and strengthen without displaying their zeal for God's love and the offer of the gift being made by the gospel.

Perhaps the world sees to much of the infants that speak out of class, but nevertheless, Christ is preached.

Perhaps what is contentious is not the gospel, but the zeal of the babes: The little children not yet grounded in their maturity; The view of the unskillful learning the hard way to patience.

Am I describing well the lock?

Have I touched the discernment of the lock?

What steals the heart, or the soul, from exploring?

The lock?

It is imaginary, after all.

An illusion.

A mask .

A disguise of something sinister weghing down the heart.

It is a spiritual wickedness perpetrated by a well seasoned deceiver.

It is not OK.

It is not harmless.

It has every person on the planet in its grasp already, assuming that the lock has not yet been opened on their own heart as of yet.

It will not let go unless one renounces its grip on the heart by simply letting the key turn in the lock.

The lock cannot prevent the key turning, but the will can.

enough, hearsay. hhmmmm......

And what path is that?

You just said,…



That’s all I’ve been saying all along.

In one breath you say all paths to God as equally valid, and in the next breath you say that you pray that I see the right path.

I certainly have no desire to disagree with you of be argumentative in any way. I’m just a bit confused at your first suggestion that there are many paths, and then to end with suggesting that I will see the right path.

Are not all sincere pathways correct?

I most certainly believe they are. That’s my whole point. Of everything I believe, I believe in sincerity most of all, I believe that our creator would never turn away anyone who is sincere at heart no matter how they might imagined God to be.

James I guess that either i did not express myself correctly or you did not get me right. (which at the end is the same, ain't it? )
I refer to right path as far as Jesus' purpose in this world which is not the same as to what you are saying about him with as having a suicidal mission in this world.
You know my friend, you are the nonchristian with whom I agree the most.

I understand exactly what you are saying here Wouldee. This is also the teachings of the many pantheistic pathways. There are many keys that will tumble the lock. Christianity can be one of them. I don’t denounce that. I know that Christianity has worked for some. Clearly it doesn’t work for all who call themselves Christians as we can clearly see that they are still prisons of their egos.

Moreover, many very devout Christians who believe that they have freed themselves over the course of their life often begin to lose faith in later years. We see actually preachers who do this all the time. Men who have devoted their entire lives to teaching the gospels.

It may or may not work depending on the person.

I’m not denouncing Christianity as it has been institutionalize as a religion per say. Although I seriously believe that as an organized religion it does breed more contempt among men than it spreads genuine brotherly love.

There’s nothing wrong with how or why a person believes in the teachings of Jesus. All that is important is that they live what he taught.

If all they do is believe that he died for their sins and then fail to do as he taught they won’t benefit from that in any way.

Believing that Jesus was God is really irrelevant. In fact, it’s completely and utterly irrelevant if the person doesn’t then live their life the way Jesus taught.

On the other hand, if you live your life the way Jesus taught then it really doesn’t matter what you believe.

And that’s my only point.

I am not separate from God....But I don't worship myself either.....I am NOT A spirit, although the spirit dwells within me. I unlike the Panthiest do not feel that everything is God, you, me, the flowers, the mountains.....For the only person that can apply to is God himself...And if you put yourself the same as him....that is where my difficulty lies.


Jesus was not missing for any time....He was growing up and coming into his own. Both God and Jesus knew before he was even sent to earth the plan and what would happen....And what makes it so amazing is what Jesus did in the short time he was on earth. His ministry did start when he was baptized by John. Whereas the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Also as I have stated on many occasions the Old Testament laws were no longer necessary when Jesus Christ died for our sins. Him doing gave us salvation through his Grace. And honestly you think Jesus Christ would ever have anyone above His Father.....And Jesus had to not work within anyones framework except his Father's. The only thing that denounced the old Testament was Jesus giving his life on the cross....That was it.....that was how the gentiles received their salvation through his grace....through his shedding his blood...


Jesus' Ministry

Baptized : Jordan River
Tempted by Satan : Negev Desert
Cleansing of the temple : Jerusalem
Jesus and Nicodemus : Jerusalem

Pilate appointed Iudaea governor


Talks to Samaritan woman : Samaria
Turning water into wine at the wedding feast ("first miracle")

Heals nobleman's son: Cana

Four fishermen become followers : Sea of Galilee

Heals Peter's mother-in-law : Capernaum

Town attempts to kill Jesus : Nazareth

First preaching trip : Galilee

Matthew joins Jesus : Capernaum

Chooses 12 disciples : Capernaum

Ministry begins : Galilee

Preaches "Sermon on the Mount" : Capernaum

Sinful woman anoints Jesus : Capernaum

Travels through Galilee : Galilee

Teaches parables about kingdom : Galilee

Calms the storm : Sea of Galilee

Jairus's daughter back to life : Capernaum

Sends disciples to preach and heal : Capernaum

John the Baptist killed by Herod : Machaerus

Feeds 5,000 people : Bethsaida

Walks on water : Bethsaida

Travels to Tyre/Sidon

Feeds 4,000 people : Tyre/Sidon

Peter states Jesus is "Son of God" : Tyre/Sidon

States soon he will die : Caesarea Philippi

Transfigured : Caesarea Philippi

Pays temple taxes : Capernaum

Attends the Feast of the Tabernacles : Jerusalem

Heals a man who was born blind : Jerusalem

Second preaching trip : Galilee

Begins last trip : Jerusalem

Blesses little children : Jordan

Talks to rich and young man : Jordan

Tells about death and resurrection : Jordan

Heals blind Bartimaeus : Jericho

Talks to Zacchaeus : Jericho

Visits Martha and Mary : Bethany

Raises Lazarus from the dead : Bethany

The Triumphal Entry : Jerusalem

Curses the fig tree : Jerusalem

Cleanses the temple : Jerusalem

Authority of Jesus questioned : Jerusalem

Teaches in the temple : Jerusalem

Anointed : Bethany

The plot against Jesus : Bethany

The Last Supper : Bethany

Comforts the disciples : Bethany

Gethsemane : Bethany

Arrest and trial : Bethany

Crucifixion and death : Golgotha

The burial of Jesus : Joseph's Tomb

The empty tomb : Jerusalem

Mary Magdalene : Jerusalem

Appears to the two travelers : Emmaus

Appears to 11 disciples : Jerusalem

Talks with some disciples : Sea of Galilee

Ascension : Mount of Olives

Resurrection : Mount of Olives

Pilate removed from office.

Pantheist

"The Kingdom (of Heaven) is inside you and it is outside you.

Split a piece of wood, and I am there.

Lift up the stone and there you will find me."

Jesus Christ, The Gospel of Thomas


Does it mean that everything is god or god is in everything? Or both?

Peace and joy.

Woudee:

To separate quotes you use the square [ brackets around the word "quote" and at the end of the quote you put a slash / in front of the word and enclose it in the square brackets. That encloses a quote. One turns it on, the other turns it off.

As for your remark above, and to others who would "pray" for Abra to "see the light" or "receive the gift" or "get their blinders off" That is so much.. "I-am-right-and-you-are-wrong" egotistical type thinking!

The truth is none of it matters. As Abra said, if you don't walk the Jesus walk, then you have no authority to talk the Jesus talk. That is, love. With LOVE comes freedom. You do not place into slavery those you love. You allow them to be.

Allowing them to be, INCLUDES respecting them enough to stop praying for them to see things YOUR WAY. These kinds of prayers are futile and they are against the first law of freedom and love. You do not pray for someone to think and believe as you do. Even if it would work, that would be mind control of sorts, or brainwashing.

Don't for one second think that God will look kindly upon you for using your mind and your will to control another person. Gods will is free will and it has been granted to all. To use your will to attempt to control another with prayer is the same as black magic. You practice black magic when you do that.

Jeannie

I would like to respond to the original post. I have not read what followed it, yet as I wanted nothing else to influence my first thoughts.

Abra, I find several areas in your beliefs that are not uncommon to 'beliefs' in general. One of the areas that serves to be a point of conflict in BOTH your beliefs and other godly beliefs is a statement of purpose. Any logic that is attempted in providing this statement produces other questions.

ex: God wanted to experience his creation first hand, thus physical manifestations of God were required.

theory: If God is the physical manifestation of the universe, there is nothing to be experienced, as the universe IS god. Now; if God manipulated existing resouces into physical realms and then wanted to experience that which it created from OTHER resouces, it might lend more credence to your view.

However, if that were the case, and the purpose behind our being is SIMPLY to provide a vehicle of sight, sound, taste, touch and hearing then the atheistic view is still supported. Because, in that scenario, humans only awareness is that which belongs to God, and the individual will, indeed, cease to exist upon demise of the physical form. And the only awareness to remain, would be all there ever was, from the beginning.

In this case, we have been decieved, manipulated, and used for the petty whims of a self indulgent creator.

This is what I see and this is why your beliefs seem no less fundamental to me than the Christian view.

I look forward to your responce, as you always find such great ways to explain what is missing from my conclusions. Thanks

A great mystery that will remain unsolved. You could be right!

To many there is no physical proof that he even existed. To Ancient Egyptian belief the people who worship this one God is the wrong God called Enka or better known as Jehovah. And the God who tried to spare the destruction of humans is the half brother of Enka called Enlil. So according to their belief the Jews worship the wrong God and the reason why Egyptians at the time tried to exterminate the Jews. If they would have been successful Christianity may have never existed today.

There are so many religions who have different stories about how religion started and what is right and wrong. A delicate subject. I can tell you this that there was once a Pharoah that made his people only worship one God. When his reign ended future Pharoahs brought back the many Gods to worship again. According to history this was the first civilization to really believe that there is only one God today. Most religions belief in one God, yet Hindus still believe in many. Who is right and who is wrong. A mystery that will remain unsolved.

Perhaps the scholars at the time who wrote the bible were so knowledgeable that they took parts of Egyptian beliefs that are thousands of years older and intergrated them to their time to challenge the Roman Empire.

Of course this information I provide you is absurd for a Christian, Christian dominator, or a Catholic. Perhaps they are right, maybe it is absurd.

All in all I remain agnostic (uncertain) and can accept anyones (theo)ries in the belief of (theo)logy.

Everyone writes valid points and thank you for the great articles.

Praying for others to see the light or find YOUR truth:

It is the power of thought transference. Don't delude yourself into thinking that you pray to a higher God when you pray for something that YOU want to happen YOUR way where it involves another person's free will.

When a Christian prays and says: "God's will be done" at the end, he leaves it to a higher intelligence. BUT when he prays for a person to change his beliefs and believe the way he does, it is not likely to happen, and if it does, it will only be very temporary.

I am so glad you posted this because I also had these same thoughts when I rejected the idea of "Becoming One with God" that so many people were expounding upon during the hippie generation.

It is true that we are appendages of God, having individual experiences and making individual choices and leading individual lives for this one God, who is quite alone (and very bored) without us.

I did not like the idea of being merely a storehouse of experience and information to be sucked up into the whole after death, losing my individuality. Yuck.

While becoming one with God may be fun for a while, it turns out to be a little boring. That is not the way it works, and I will tell you why I think so.

God's body (the universe) is expanding and growing through the work of its creation who has been given the power of imagination creation, will and individuality. That is the reason we do not remember. If we remembered who we were, we would not proceed to seek out new things and create new things. That is the reason for all the lies. It is part of the game. We have only to remember who we are and where we came from and we will regain our place within the universe.

It will never end, and it will never stop expanding. It will always be interesting and always be challenging. It will never be boring. We will always grow and most of us will keep our individuality unless we voluntarily merge with another and share it.

That is the way I see it. Its very exciting.

Abra,
I follow this last bit well with very much a warmed heart about what is being talked about more clearly.

Some that lose faith never really had it. Think about it, no don't. It is impossible to explain other than to suggest that they were not really where they thought they were and knew it over time. My experience is that such men never had the anointing in the first place. They were speaking and teaching from their intellect.

Which leads me to agree vociferously with the next staement you make about the contempt bred by organized religion overshadowing the brotherly love oof the faithful.

True. undeniably true. Which goes back to the previous point.

Many are preaching things they are not partakers of and attemptingto earn their way through. Sooner or later this is found out by the heart, but not always by the men the credential such things upon men that are not called by God to preach and lack the aonnointing to preach in the power of the Holy Spirit. Ones preaching will reach the heart, the other is as a noise that does not enter the heart with the truth from God.

As far as the rest, you know that I have reason to believe that hell is for fallen angels and not man. You also know that I hold that Jesus is the judge and there will be many that enter eternity on theor works and that are not Christians in this lifetime, by the qualification of being indwelt by the Holy Spirit. This anointing is what qualifies one as a Christian minister and the judgement has already occured for such inddividuals, but these same individuals also are of service to the Lord for his will and purpose while he is absent from the earth. We are His ambassadors, and quite frankly, the Church itself. Not organized religion.

My point to all that would live and die as one chooses is not for me to judge, since there is a judge and its not me.

To live in concert with ones heart in sincerity and express love to themselves and others and be constructive and productive with their lives and find joy inlifge and believe that there is a Higher Power than man is not without merit.

But works are the criteria for judgement as to a life was one lived well.

And that judgement is known to me to have a judge. But that same judge makes the call.

Where this judge is most profoundly discriminating is in His willingness to share His treasures with the human heart and longs to do so in exceeding ways, unknown to souvereign men that don't exercise their right when known of such an offer to do so.

He doesn't give out samples like a traveling salesman working out of the trunk of His car!

He doesn't necessarily hold it against any person that doesn't wholeheartedly comprehend what is being offered truthfully either.

Preaching the truth requires truth. Dilute it and it is not truth. He doesn't weigh half truths against the sincerity of the heart, he weighs the heart on its merits.

To those that have been scared out of their wits with imbalanced and varnished half truths there is nothing about truth that has been denied to judge unfavorably against.

But that doesn't qualify one to get a pass and be the Church of Jesus Christ after the fact.

The Christian is on the cross, and it is this Judge that is hated of the true Christian, not the Christian.

The Christian is not his own, but Christ's.

I am not speaking of believers, per se, But rather about the true Church of Jesus Christ.

That is what the gospel is offering to any believer in God that can receive that Jesus Christ is in fact from God, Himself and not instead of or as a replacement God to any. But that He too is of God and if He is received aS OF gOD, THEN HE OFFERS THE BELIEVER THE OPPORTUNITY TO ENTER INTO hIS REST, AS GIVEN hIM TO SHARE WITH MANKIND, (soory, tab lock again, not yelling or emphatically drawing attention to anything) to those that receive that He is come from God.

This is the Church. We are made ambassadors of His message to mankind and anointed with the Holy Spirit to allow Him to accomplish the will of His good pleasure through us, and thus we are judged already, that enter into this rest, and He does the work through us by the Holy Spirit which he has given us to equip us to serve Him through us.

The added bonus is that we sealed by redemption with this indwelling. The judgement upon us has occured. Our reasonablr service to Him is to allow Him to serve through us.

The hardship for us is His. He is still on the cross to the world and to ungodly men with reprobrate consciences.

Kingdoms and civilizations change when the population changes its king.

Fortunes collide with plunder being removed from indentured servitude.

Men in advantage with all to lose seek to destroy such things being deseminated to the people.

The world has changed much in the last 2000 years, but Christ is still searching hearts for entrance.

There is no limit to His love. Even He is incapable of witholding it from any.

It is His passion.

And some of us, called by His name, will pay with our lives to a;llow hHim continuance through us to do what He does at the cost of our own lives because.......

we know better than any how very much He loves all mankind.

We live with Him every single day of our LIVES!!!!!

Anoasis,

I would say that depicts that the Word that framed everything into existence is in the manifestation of Creation; That the Word is holding it together but not the creation itself.

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with Gid and the Word was God. And the same was in the beginning with God.
...and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."
John1;1,2,14.

perhaps you have heard this before. We Christians get so much from it.

There may be some slight differences, BUT, I remember a time that I envisioned what you speak of. At that time I might have shared with you all my theories and I'm sure we would have found much more commonality than differences.

Not today, the course of my questions and answers have led me away from this thinking. There is much of the 'Abra' brand of pantheism in this theory and to be honest, it would be my 'druther' to see this view in place of the Christion one, if scales could be so adjused.

About this part of your quote:




I not only considered this aspect, but I also I expanded it to: gaining 'fullness' of experience was the, unconscious, GOAL (equivalent to human instict) of the 'individual'. The purpose of achieving this fullness of expereince was not unlike the merging of humans for procreation. The closer an 'individual' gets to fullness, the greater the 'desire' to merge with another becomes. That 'other' is known and when both are at rest (not experiencing) thier bond is so strong they are always together (like mates). The only thing that can separate them is the DRIVE (the instinct)to experience more, to 'fulfill' the goal.
When both reach fulness, they merge and create, I would equate this 'merging' with a continuous, all absorbing, act of sex, in which all emotions of all the expereiences are mutually exchanged, but in this form all those emotional expereinces only exist as varying degrees of love. It's during this time that the greatest creativity exists and creation is the outcome. This continues until it and a parallel entity are drawn to each other, in another realm, and the bond is formed. At which point the process begins again and expereince is the goal.

Very romantic - the truth is I didn't even consciously make this stuff up, I dreamed it all, over the course of a month or more - MANY years ago.

It might have been easy to have found truth, in any of the beliefs I have been exposed to in my life, or even partially considered, and at any point stopped the persuet of knowledge.

I couldn't do that, for reasons I can't explain. Self analyses is not something I choose to do, it is something I find necessary. One can not continue to analyze the self within the confines of any limiting belief system.

This analysis requires reflection, questions, and if the answers are to be believed they must include reasons to change. If no reason for change is ever presented, then previous bias or, what might be called, "confirmation bias" has affected the process. For perfection, is not humanly possible. Knowing that, allows one to recognise and reconcile,(change) perceived, flaws.

All this is MY way, it is not right or wrong, it is not something I expect of others, it was only my purpose to explain how I address beliefs and an attempt to 'connect' by way of showing that I understand what you currently believe.

It is very interesting and each person I have ever had such discussions with, puts thier individual spin on the theory. It's all a bit like 'alien abduction' stories, like Christian beliefs, there are those who will tell, "millions of people" all "in agreement" can't all be wrong. But in reality do all those millions of people really, agree, really believe the same thing or is it just 'confirmation bias' in which we confirm the sameness and ignore the differences?

They definitely don’t all agree, there can be no question about that whatsoever.



But you are the self indulgent creator. If the whims are petty that’s your choice.



Well, the main difference between pantheism and the Christian view is that the Christians view God as a separate being with an ego of his own. A deity that will pass judgment on them. Some deny that they are ‘separate’ from their God, but this is clearly what their doctrine requires.

The idea is to become ‘servants’ of God, and to do God’s will. When they die and go to heaven God is the King of that Kingdom. They will forever and for all of eternity be servants to this supreme godhead. The human soul is something less than God and will forever, and always be something less than God.

The pantheistic view is differnet in that we are a manifestation of God. Not separate inferior beings that will forever be servants of some supreme godhead that we can never hope to comprehend. We are this universe. I don’t know how else to say it.

Will your ego die? Yes. Will that be the end of YOU? No.

Why is memory of who you were important?

Imagine that you were in an accident and hit your head and were stricken with amnesia. When you came to you couldn’t remember who you are or anything about your past. You learned to live without that memory. Are you still you? Or did you die and a new person took over where your memory left off?

I guess I’m asking you if you think that you are your memory. Is your memory the only thing that constitutes what you are?

If you are this universe experiencing your bodily form. Then when your form dies will YOU die? Well, only if you are the form. But if you are the thing that is experiencing the form, then you will not die.

This is the pantheistic view. You are not the form. You are the thing that is experiencing the form.

Memory of what you were is not important because the knowledge that ‘I AM’ is all that is important. And you will forever experience ‘I AM’. You are the ‘I AM’.

How does it work? No one knows. It’s a matter of faith. In that respect it’s no different from Christianity.

The only real difference between pantheism and Christianity, is that pantheism says that we are God, and Christianity holds that God is an external egotistical judgmental jealous dictator who makes rules, and gets emotional, angry and upset if they not they are followed.

Pantheism says that we are the eternal spirit of this universe. We are all egalitarian spirits.

Christianity says that we are the pets of an external jealous zoo keeper who becomes irate if we don’t bow down and worship him in very precise ways. Christianity sees God is a fascist dictator, and we are doomed to be it’s willing servants or forever face extreme and unbearable torture. Christianity has placed us in a very precarious position.

Which is true?

Probably neither,...

Probably the Wiccans have it right but we don’t hear from them must so we just miss out I guess. And I hear they’re coming out with some new high-tech brooms too!