Hi Jeannie.

one would also need to know so much more about the conversations between my friend Abra and myself to understand that I am not in the business of undoing Abra.


As for black magic, I hope you are not being serious.

As for the imposition of my will on any other goes, not going to happen either, Jeannie.

As for including me into the club you box me into, do well not to endeavor yourself to impose your own will on me and assume to put words in my mouth or intent in my heart or your assessment of others upon my person.

Whosoever you would enjoin to my tutelage would be a gross error on your part for having done so and a flattery which I will have none of from you or any other person I encounter in this life.




Now, to your inept reading of my statement that engenders such emotional strife for you I shall explain it if perhaps you may see your way clear to read it as it is written.

Sin is bandied about and has been for too long. The stigma around this word and its prevalence in Christian attribution is overblown and taken out of context by many that would make it more than it is. It means errors or mistakes. Simple stuff.

The errors and mistakes that surround the truth of the gospel and what is being offered is not absolution from this word and its affect upon mankind as though man brought such a problem upon himself and must dearly pay for being so blind as to not know what he ought to know. Man cannot see the error nor can man see the mistake clearly that has been befallen him. Th e only reference point is the law. This is the fly in the ointment.

The law given to Moses for the children of Israel was given to give them as a gauge of the errors and mistakes in their judgement regarding their duplicitous and convenient behavior in serving gods of the day the way they change their clothes.
But this, their God JHWH, is not in the business of forsaking a promise made to this family.

Following the guidelines would bless their lives and help them not be so fearful and doubtful. None could do it, though.

As a matter of fact, no one can.

None can see past it. There is no vision beyond it.

One came and fulfilled it, but as the story goes, he was made to fulfill it. He gave it. He had the vision of it from the start. He came in the flesh to show that.

The point about knowing what that is and how to step out from under the burden of such a law or this particular set of laws is an impossibility. Man hasn't the foggiest idea about what the error is: thus this fascination with 'sin'.

Now then, whether or not any desires any such cognizance of such things that is available to apprehend is another matter. But my point is that SIN or errors or mistakes do not prevent our access to all that God would give us by coming to Christ. In fact, the knowledge of what it is comes after the fact in Christ by the Holy Spirit. AFTER the fact.

Then and only then does one know what it is. But not from the past that snares us, by no means. Not even by having it thrown in our faces. But by the difference in our lives forever changed by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The inspiration that is imparted is so uniquely different that it can only be described as HOLY.

HOLY means separate, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less.

It is very simple actually.

But the sincerity is what opens the door, Jeannie.

The view from the new perch is as different as night is from day, but for so long, the emphasis has been maligned to being about how miserably wretched we are and not about how loving and generous and sweet and wonderful God is. One shoudn't need more than their God given conscience to reason with that.

People don't come to Jesus to replace their God, but to affirm that they believe that He also is of God and from the same source and distinction as that which is inherently written on the hearts of all men to know that there is a God and he,she,it is real. Simple stuff. blah blah blah

To assume that I am suggesting that anyone, Abra included, is in need of being fixed as being doomed to some hell is a stretch far beyond what I am saying.

There are many that are doing just fine, and many that are far less deliberate and articulate than Abra. Yet, the problem is not with God's embrace of any but with the anxiety created over
the stigma of Jesus Christ in the minds of men regarding His message.

Everyone is not going to hell in a handbasket. All will be judged based on the works one does while in the body.

This point of 'sin' blocking out any from God's grace and mercy because they are not Christians, per se, is not what Christ taught. He taught that many will be in Heaven and even declare that there will be those that don't know Jesus when they meet him but nonetheless are welcme and are received into heaven.

Apparently then, 'sin' did not prevent all from being precluded.

But you look for where it is written that Jesus said these things if they matter to you .

What might interest you to know is that Christ also said there are many that will proclaim to know him AND TO HAVE DONE GREAT THINGS IN hIS NAME, YET HE WILL REMIND THEM THAT hE DOESN'T KNOW THEM AND THEY ARE EXCLUDED. sorry, cap locjk key again got bumped.

The point to Abra, you and anyone else is that sin is not what holds anyone back but that it is possible to know just what constitutes 'sin', or error, by the vast difference between what we think God is like and what his will is for us and that which He really is, which is not at all what we think or feel, apart from experiencing Him within in the fullness that He offers all. But if one is content without Christ, so be it.

This may seem unbearably long and a book already too bothersome to read, but nonetheless attention to your comments deserves more than a shrug.

The apprehension of the stigma deserved to be shared, not the call to prostate oneself to defeat.

it is the unbalanced emphasis on being inadequate that compels many to misappropriate what Christ is offering.

It is that fallacy that can be known for what it is, not for what it has been as a tool to manipulate quaking fear and utter terror to force men to succumb to such a notion.

Knowing what constitutes such a thing as 'sin' is a gift, not a deficit in need of repair. It is not about inadequacy, but about insight.

Clarity. truth. liberty. freedom. peace. comfort. rest.

Much the same as that which you suggest is unavailable to me by my haughtiness and arrogant disposition.

What I assure you is true is that none have overcome this little issue of 'sin' in this life outside of Christ. None else offers the view.

Whether any believes it is worthy to know is up to those that would dare to know.

It is worth mentioning as it can be apprehended.

Seeking knowledge and understanding due the pursuit of wisdom entertains the possibilities and does not preclude the search itself.

Abra, you are describing precisely what "demonic possession" is depicted as on so many levels. Ergo, the myth!.

If that is pantheism, there is a problem that I have with it.

Where did you toss your soul? Did you bury it in submission to this endlessly wanton spirit that chooses to entertain you momentarily while it woes your soul into a slumber ?

Your words suggest that there is nothing unique about Abra, or should I say James. Is wouldee really Rich for that matter, eh?


What happens in this depiction of yours is that the souvereign is the created entity. But what happens to the observer of all of this in you, Abra?

Also, that servitude is nonexistent. How can that be so? Do you really believe that your autonomy is so vast that you are relegated to pretensious suffering only experienced by the abandoned and usurped soul for the sake of a spiritual enigma that promises nothing but erasure of cognizance to be recycled again in a new host as if eternal life is such a thing?

The dichotomy belies the need for a soul in your scenario.

There is no room in your depiction of yourself to have a trichotomous composition within yourself.

You have succeeded to victimize your self with unyielding co-inhabitant somewhere inside you. At which point are you rationalizing the inferiority of the host?

Is the host of no consequence to any part of your being, or just acceeding to the journey and hoping for erasure for the end of the torture?

Please, define yourself better.

Apparently bliss and apathy and complacency over the disposition of your consciousness to a souvereign overthrow by a spiritual entity has imparted fate as well to the overthrow of your usurped will.

In that excuse for not wanting to be a servant of a benevolent dictator there is merit for being irresponsible for the consequences of having to be accountable for anything on one hand, but on the other, and more frightfully abhorrent is the surrender to an entity that will wantonly disrobe itself of you and flee to another more viable host as amere convenience.

That seems more descriptive of involuntary servitude to a malignant and oppressive God that will toss you aside as dust and refuse and inviable and worthless at the close of the muse upon your soul.

That is far from ideal and definitely distasteful to me.

But then, I find humanity distatefully depraved and always have since childhood. Even mastering the depravity in my youth and being a terror to those that would dare to infringe upon and impune my liberties and sequester my preservation of self through the abuse of enslaving my autonomy would not satiate my contempt of the baser brutality of selfishness and greed and arrogance of violent men. Becoming the enemy was double the trouble and no less distasteful.

Even that I threw off as vanity! Folly TOO!!!!

and yet as it was, there was none of this Christian witness within.

I endeavored to ignore the depravity and laugh it off as ignorance.

Such as I was graciously apprehended of removed the contempt and hatred of mankind and in no way forced me into involuntary servitude to being manipulated so deceitfully as though I am but meat and withering tall grass soon to be mowed and burned!!

How much more would I have been the like to which you are embracing and without the liberties of owning and ruling over men., Abra?

I had the more and knew it folly!

I had the double and yet it is nothing but garbage to me.

What you depict as God and eternal life is a wicked nightmare to which there is no credible awakening imminent from such apprehensions promising anything more knowable than a vacuum of emptiness for the host, which is, BTW, not without value and divine construction and merit in intent and manifestation.

I had wished to never read this from you.

This is another side to your pantheistic view that I find quite distasteful and would be an unbearably vicious defeat never to be succumbed to in any mind or disposition of mine at any time in my life as appealing and wholesome and just!

The transference you are projecting on Christianity better defines your pantheistic view from where I sit and I wonder aghast at the incredible spectacle of a man with your faculties not able to see the incredible distortion purposed against your very own description of a healthy and vibrant universe filled with wonder and awe!

I hope your are kidding around with this.

Even though I find nothing humorous about your depiction of heaven and life.


but rather than delete this reply in disgust, i am posting it after all.

I am apt to conclude that you are playing a game after all, Abra.

A sick one at that.

Come on Wouldee, this is the understatement of the year, and we’re only in the beginning of March!

The biblical doctrine is entirely focused on sin, it’s the major theme of the entire Bible. Christ’s death on the cross to pay for the sins of man is the ultimate climax and central focus of the entire religion almost to the point of overshadowing anything else the religion might have to offer.

Accepting Jesus Christ as are Savior from sin is the hallmark of the religion!

How can you even begin to suggest that the stigma around sin and its prevalence in Christian attribution is overblown. It’s THE Central Theme of the Bible!

At least is is if the scriptures are taken verbatim. To denounce that you’d need to take the stance that the scriptures themselves are overblown with demagoguery, which is precisely the view I’m advocating.



Just for the record, I have almost no problem with the 10 commandments.

The 10 commandments don’t mention anything about homosexuality being a sin. Yet for some reason many Christians are against homosexuality and it’s definitely not in the 10 commandments.

The 10 commandments also don’t say anything about fornication being a sin. They only address adultery which is a totally different thing. Fornication is any sex outside of marriage while adultery is only being unfaithful to a spouse (or the breaking of a convenient or agreement).

In other words, based on the 10 commandments alone, free sex among single people would be perfectly fine.

In fact, the 10 commandments don’t even suggest that it would be a sin to not take responsibility for things outside of covenants which I’ve always felt was a serious omission in a set of rules that were supposedly made up by a supreme being.

The first 3 commandment are all about “Worship me! Worship me! Worship me!”

I just can’t see an all-wise mature intelligent being wasting 3 commandments to basically say the same egotistical thing. And then omitting something as obvious as “Thou shalt be responsible for everything thou might do!”

Keeping God’s laws is the easy part. People who think that non-Christians don’t believe in Christianity because the laws are too stern are out of their minds. Especially if we’re only looking at the 10 commandments.

As soon as we leaven the 10 commandments and ‘go fishing’ for things to point-and-blame as ‘sins’ we run into all sorts of problems. We could use the Bible to claim that women aren’t allowed to speak on any important issues, or maybe not even speak in public at all!

So once we go beyond the 10 commandments it’s a free-for-all.

Obeying the 10 commandments is no biggie. Although even those aren’t foolproof. It says to honor your mother and your father. Well, what if your mother and father are drug dealers and they want you to help them sell drugs to the neighborhood children? Then what??? Should you honor their wishes?

There’s nothing in the 10 commandments that says it’s wrong to do drugs, or sell drugs.

It’s a grossly inept rule book with the first 3 commandments being wasted on the deities own vanity.

And a commandment to remember a Sabbath day is more important than a commandment to tell people to be responsible in everything they do???

Seriously Wouldee, it takes more faith than I can muster to believe that these 10 commandments were written by an all-wise deity who fully understands all of the problems that humans are going to be faced with in their lives. It’s just totally inefficient and incomplete.

Don’t mind me, I’m just rambling here. But your suggestion that sin is overblown in Christianity is totally without merit. Sin and salvation is the pinnacle of the whole story.

That’s absolutely correct. All spirits are completely egalitarian in every way imaginable. It’s only our egos that are unique, but they have no reality. The ego is the merely paint on the canvass, we are not the paint, we are the canvass. We can change our ego. We can’t change our true nature that underlies that.

As to the rest of you objections to my post, I can only imagine that you created pictures that you find distasteful.

The question is simple,…

If life is a dream what would be the better scenario,…

1. To wake up and discover that you are a eternal slave to a higher being?

2. To wake up and discover that you are the higher being?

If you choose # 1 and you aren’t choosing it merely from a fear of offending that supposed higher being, please explain why you would prefer to be the inferior being?

I can only imagine one possible reason (other than fear of offending a potential higher being), and that would be laziness. Choosing # 1 might somehow represent a shirking of responsibility. Let someone else be responsible and make all the decisions, # 2 would be too much like work for some people.

Yes, it’s true Wouldee, I’m can’t get excited about being a pet for someone higher deity that plays guessing games without letting me in on it.

If I wake up and realize that I was playing these games on myself, then it’s a belly laugh.

If I wake up and realize that I really am a slave to an eternal dictator, no matter how benevolent it might be, for me that would be a nightmare.

I would rather the atheists be correct and just black out when I die than to walk up to discover I’m an eternal pet of a fascist dictator. I don’t care how benevolent it is, I would still just be it’s pet. And clearly it can get peeved and cast me out of it’s Kingdom at any time, after all it’s a ruler with serious ego problems and is known to take jealous tantrums according to it’s own history book.

Yep, I pray that the atheist are correct if that’s the alternative.

I have no desire to be the pet of a deity no matter how benevolent it might be.

Edited to Add,…

I just realized that you aren’t going to view these questions the same as I do. If you imagine waking up as “God”, you’re probably going to imagine that you are waking up as ‘The Godhead’, as in Christianity. But that’s not the way it would it be. You wouldn’t be the single entity in ‘charge’ of all else. Neither would you find yourself ‘alone’.

What you would realize is that all spirits are one ‘collective’ being, and that all are egalitarian. No one passes judgments of any kind on anyone. It just isn’t done. It’s not even a concept in the spiritual world. God is ‘many-in-one’ and ‘one-in-many’ in a way that is not easy to convey. However, I can personally imagine how it can work. But then I’ve thought about the pantheistic view for many years.

I know that it is extremely difficult for someone who thinks of God as being a single entity to suddenly have a good understanding of God’s true nature as multiplicity. But it is a graspable concept. And once grasped, it make perfect sense.

But I am not a God......no panthiest......good try but no cigar.

God is everywhere as he created all........including man but this in no way means to put yourself on the same level or to worship yourself as a god. As God says, "Worship only one God" It didn't say "worship all of you as god, even the flowers and the trees and the mountains and the streams."

But I do however stand in awe of all that surrounds me and respect all of nature as God created it. And also do my part to protect it.

Abra,

It is a game. After all, you are flying by the seat of your pants. A chameleon with a penchant for fantasizing about being in a higher class of the food chain to be facetious and continue humoring your discourse.

#1 or #2 are .....gee....difficult to choose from

If #1, I will be sure not to fall asleep and dream that I am anythiong other than that which I am.
Not being led by dreams but consciously sensitive to life and all that is experienced convinces me otherwise.

I am not under the delusion that man is anything other than that which he is. An autonomous creature given access to tremendous love and the opportunity to express joy and awe and splendor while partaking of the beauty of life itself.

Nor is life a burdensome weight worthy of the contemplating fancies of an ungrateful heart supposing the need to be greater and other than one is. Clearly such discontent is born of distortions worthy of waking up from.

#2 follows the whole rabbit hole theology of assuming that the dream is still reality.
Being a god and under no accountability and having no responsibilities other than to frolic?

You are kidding, right? That is vanity and delusional.

Illogical, to say the least. That decries Creation itself.

None of these higher beings in your dreamscape is capable of an original thought, let alone actually create anything unique and useful without guidance and direction and subservience in commission. Which is the slave?
I am not attracted to this excuse for existence either, Abrs.


At some point, apprehending reality and making the most of it would offer a glimpse into the joys of life.

But as long as you hold any that calls you on your folly in such utter contempt and low regard ar unworthy of your dignity to actually apprehend in sincerity, it is doubtful that you wioll ever find yourself qualified to comprehend the life you actually live and grasp the truth.

Evading the truth and the present reality as myth is myth.

Fabricating an illusion to ease ones suffering only serves to torment.

Nor is it creative, by any means. It is only a dull mirror of evasive means to suspect ends.

At the end of the day, Abracadabra is an apt tag for an artist.

The art is sarcasm and contempt of the very life that affords the folly. The illusion that vanity is souvereign and that anything is everything and that nothing is clearly as it should be.

Strong delusions accompanies such intense focus and consume rational thought in the subjectivity applauded by the artist selling illusions.

Training the mind to condition itself outside of lucidity distorts reason and logic to a state of reactionary justification of convenient distortions.

Excusing life as being comprised of vain machinations mocking its own potential is cynical.

Exposing the folly that defines the art deflates the ego of the artist.

Perhaps ego is your God, Abra.

But still, pantheism's excusability would mask the exposure of that very well and afford escape from the accountability of the suffering attendant upon such an admission.

Either way, your dreamscape is unavoidably incoherent: be it the subservience to a greater source that belies ones own subjugation, or the notion that subjugation transmuted to a collectively ethereal populus of emperors without clothes in need of consant repair and replacement in endless recycle is not any closer to depicting the objurgation imposed.


Which 'suits' you, after all.

Have fun today, if it is not yet become intolerable to do well!

Wouldee:

I did not include your entire sermon for clarity. Rather than spend time trying to digest your entire philosophy I think the best approach is to tell you what I find distasteful coming from Christians who tell me or (someone else) that they will "pray" for them in hope that they will see the "truth."

This kind of thing implies that they feel that they know what "the truth" is, at least better that the person they intend to pray for. (That is either delusion, self-righteousness or ego.)

Now if you want to pray for someone, no one can stop you. But to tell them such a thing is clearly an insult. Let me give you a sample: Suppose I were to tell you:

"Wouldee, I will pray that you will one day realize that you have been wrong, and see the truth."

(Even if I meant well, and even if I believe that I am sincere, what I am doing by telling you this is telling you that you are wrong and that I think I'm right.)

So I will admit that I cringe and grumble and roll my eyes when people patronize me and others by stating that they will "pray" for them to "see the light of Jesus" or other such statements, (well meaning or not.")

Your wordy replies seem to be designed more toward misdirection
than clarity. It is as if you are either trying to impress others with your vocabulary or you are trying to explain yourself by dragging people through your entire philosophy. I have to admit, that I find you difficult to read.

And yes I am very serious about what constituted "black magic." People use it all the time and they don't even realize it. It is the attempt to manipulate others or situations by the use of your will. The will is for the purpose of self direction. When you use it on others, it is "black magic." Praying for others to change their way of thinking, or believing is the wrong use of the will. It is "black magic." You don't have to kill a chicken either.

Man is that, and much more, IMO. While the partaking of the beauty of life and expressing joy and awe is fun, I hardly think it is the reason for our existence. If man is not here for any other purpose than that, then we are simply an audience built for the purpose of adoring creation and its creator who obviously needs an audience and needs worship.

I wish I had known that before, I would have saved a fortune.

Jeannie,

Who's praying for or against or upon Abra here? It's not me.

you are confused on that one and still insist on talking about that as if I am purposing an intervention on others. Whatever you have read into something that suggest such a thing is coming from me is erroneous. I haven't a clue. And what others may be doing in that regard is of no interest to me to pry into.

Lengthy diatribes can be useful. ...brevity, that.

As far as persuasion vs. convincing any of anything goes, that is dialogue. Conversation is what I call it.

Your fascination with black magic is irrelevant. Perhaps your musings mean something to you, but all I hear is noise. It is just a distraction that is not answerable from me.
I suggest you start a thread about it or engage another with the notion. It is , as I said, irrelevant.

Now then, the conclusion that I draw from your remarks is that conversations are predatory when excused as incompatible with one's concepts being discussed.....impositional in assault with invasive intent and rude in the assumption that one point of view is justifiable and coherent and anything to the contrary is but slander and abuse.....and that the ills of society may be painted with a broad brush on the canvas of Christian thought and discourse that has been excused from the conscious mind as torment.


If you have found me difficult to read and needed more succinct clarity from me, here it is.

Hope you like it. It is what it is, Jeannie.

Love does such things for no other reason and need than to create opportunities to embrace the very joy being experienced with nothing better in mind than to share that which cannot be contained; love and the passion associated with love and its generous quality.

Why does it have to be so difficult to grasp?

The old saying, "can't see the forest for the trees" comes to mind.

Little children grasp what some adults won't.( leading away from sexual overtones intentionally)

Yeh I know, happy happy joy joy for everybody. That's not difficult to grasp.

But the true joy comes in the doing and creating of things, not simply in the "looking" at things that are the creations of others or of "God."

Therefore I assert that "mankind" are beings in training for the creation of worlds. Gods in training. The "joy" comes in the creating of things. I find no greater joy than when I am creating something. That is why my passion is art. Anything a person does or thinks is a creation.

All that is in your life is a creation, and you have no one to blame for the bad stuff. You created it. The good stuff is the natural state of things. We are here to learn how to create the good stuff.. IMO. That is done with our thoughts and intentions.

This is a quote from you, Wouldee:

This assumes that Abra is wearing "blinders" and does not "see the light" does not "understand" the way you do. And it assumes his "blinders" need to come off.

You are correct in that you did not say you would pray for him. I stand corrected. But it did remind me of the same type of implication; that you, believe that you have "seen the light" and that "so many others fail to grasp the offer.."

Its all a matter of personal perspective. You feel enlightened. I am happy for you. But you are just as much in the dark as everyone else IMO, therefore you appear delusional in your enlightenment. (to me)




Useful in misdirection perhaps and of wandering off from the point, and in confusing someone into a stupor perhaps. But not useful in communication.




LOL Okay. I call it rhetoric or propaganda.




It is irrelevant to you only because you don't see it, hence it is invisible to you. It does not exist for you. I think I explained it in very simple terms. You probably don't use it, because you think you can talk people into a circle until they finally come around in agreement with you.



..... reads the above three times and wanders off scratching her head feeling she needs to take a nap.





....zzzzzzzz HuH?

You just don’t understand pantheistic is all.

All you are doing it trying to bring your vision of God as the king of the universe and push that idea onto pantheism.

Pantheism isn’t about worshiping yourself as a god in the Christian sense of God. The whole Christian sense of God is the wrong idea. The pantheistic vision of God is not an egotistical vision.

As long as you continue to think of God as having a ego you’ll never understand the pantheistic view.

The concept of ‘god’ in pantheism is not the idea of a controlling judgmental dictator. As long as you hold that concept of God in your mind you’ll never understand pantheism.

Pantheism requires that you completely lose the concept of ego. The ego is the illusion. You don’t worship yourself egotistically in pantheism. If that’s your picture then you clearly don’t understand the concept at all.

However, this may be precisely the opposite of what you’d prefer to believe. The great attraction to Christianity is that it is a picture of a God who promises to preserve egos for all of eternity. The very thought of losing your ego may be more than you are willing to consider. The very promise of being able to keep your ego for all of eternity what Christianity is all about.

Ultimately Christians believe that ego = soul.

So you think that god is vanity and delusional. After all, God would certainly be in this position.



Ego is the God of the Christians. It is the promise of the preservation of their ego that they find so irresistible.

Pantheism holds that the ego is an illusion and does not really represent your true essence. I don’t expect you to understand this, especially if you are hostile to it. It’s unimportant anyway.

I’m not trying to convert you Wouldee. My original intent was simply to state that the world view of pantheism not only holds merit, but is precisely what Jesus taught.

Like Michael Gabriel I often get caught up in conversations that I never intended to be in.

If you don’t like pantheism, that’s fine.

My only points are two-fold,…

1. Pantheism is a valid world view whether you understand it or not.

2. Jesus taught the 12 laws of Karma, which is the pantheistic view.

If you find this threatening, or you don’t like it, that’s fine. My only point is that it has every bit as much merit as any other view.

Wouldee:



1. Your first declaration: "What I assure you is true...blah blah"

This little issue of "sin": You say that sin is an "error." But some Christians claim that we are "born in sin.." and are sinners at birth. Do you agree? If so, then being born, was an error.

Also, if anyone, outside of Christianity, began using the term "sin" to describe their errors, mistakes or transgressions, how do you think a Christian would respond?

For example, if I formed my own church (The First Universal Life Church of Brutal Truth and Honesty) and went around telling people that it was a "sin" to give candy to children, or that it was a "sin" to pray for anyone without their consent, as it constitutes "Black Magic" and other "sins" do you think I might be told by Christians that I had no authority to decide what is or is not a "sin?" Do you think they would stand by and tolerate me using their word SIN?

I would bet not.

Because feel they own the word, just like they feel they own God.

When I preach love, freedom, kindness, forgiveness, peace, etc. do you think they would agree when they believe in going to war and when they believe that the path to peace is war?

"Christ" is not confined to a man named "Jesus" or "Joshua" or any other name you want to give someone. "Christ" is god made flesh and represents every man and every woman incarnate on this earth. To realize "Christ" is when you realize that God is in you and works through you.

2. Your second declaration: "None else offers the view." is vague and unclear.

Jeannie

And thus lies the non-understanding....because I understood every word that wouldee stated.....and in what he says is nothing but truth...and you can sugarcoat and believe anything you wish.... for abra and for bean....it's ok.....you want to believe that everything in the universe is a god...believe it....you want to worship yourselves and the flowers and the trees...do it......

Jesus was not a pantheist. And most people are not gods. Just people like Jesus and The Buddha.

That’s funny. Jesus himself said that ye are Gods.

I guess no one believes that Jesus spoke the truth.

That’s ok, they don’t listen to anything else he taught anyway, so what else is new.