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| Topic: I'm just asking for clarification.... | |
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Abra - I'm not saying anything - it's your story. At the end of it - you asked a question, I answered it. Obviously, you were not happy with my answer because it did not fall in line with the supposed moral of your story. Now you are attempting to suggest I've said, or implied this and that? You're not making any sense. But it's not my story Eljay. That's where you're wrong! This is the story that must be true if what the Christians claim is true! You can't just pass it off as "Abra's story". I didn't invent the godforsaken religion. 
If Christians want to claim that there is only ONE GOD and that God is Jesus Christ, and everyone who doesn't recognize and accept him will be rejected from heaven (and in their religion there is only ONE other place to go!),... Well, that's THEIR STORY Eljay! Not mine!!! 
So don't be tossing their crap in my face. I don't believe in a judgmental God who rejects people based on what they might or might not believe! But that is the very crux of what Christians are trying to claim! So it's not my story. It's their story! Either they have to confess that it's not their story (which flies in the very face of Evangelism and Proselyizing), or they have to own up to the fact that it's precisely their story and their God is one hell of a monster!!! That was the whole point to my post Eljay. For you to try to pass it off as "merely Abra's story" is to completely miss the point of it. 
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if there be any greater truth, it's foundation is of the greatest essence, or the entire structure shall fall.... |
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if there be any greater truth, it's foundation is of the greatest essence, or the entire structure shall fall.... The tarot card for that energy is the TOWER. The tower falls, and the truth is revealed. |
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Edited by
davidben1
on
Mon 09/01/08 04:31 PM
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if there be any greater truth, it's foundation is of the greatest essence, or the entire structure shall fall.... The tarot card for that energy is the TOWER. The tower falls, and the truth is revealed. wow......what greater tower that exist that confuse all language one to another, than the tower of self wisdom.... oh, the pain of such falling is as one falling into a sea of abiss, but rising forth from the abiss is as all bliss revealed in front of the eyes, ears, mind, heart, and all of the soul...... |
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Mao Tse Tung said, and I quote "religion is the opiate of the masses." No he didnt. Marx did ... and its opium of the masses, not opiate Havent read any more of your post, because if you cant get that right, then whats the point? 
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Mao Tse Tung said, and I quote "religion is the opiate of the masses." No he didnt. Marx did ... and its opium of the masses, not opiate Havent read any more of your post, because if you cant get that right, then whats the point?
You are correct. It was Marx. So, please all, forgive me. And, it is opiate, not opium. And Belushi, what difference does it make who said it? For the purpose of this topic, NONE. The important thing is that it was said, by SOMEONE, and it helped me make my point. Now, do you have anything of substance to add? Anything that pertains to the subject at hand? Or, are you more interested in acting as the fact police? Calling me on an error in facts is OK(My college days are many years behind me). But to say that you wouldn't bother to read the rest of my post is in a word POMPOUS. |
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Many Christians claim that life begins at conception, concomitant, therefore, with the creation of a new immortal soul. Since Nature (read:God?) spontaneously aborts as many 10% of the living bodies of these alleged souls, and as theorized in this thread that these souls are given a free pass into heaven by virtue of never having the ability to make choices, does it not follow that 10% of the population of heaven must therefore be embryonic beings without free will, sentinence or moral experience? Virtual autotomatons with nothing in common with the rest of the population? I've never heard a logical refutation of this idea from any Christian. If they say anything, they'll invoke the "Mysterious" clause, drop the hot potato and burn rubber leaving the vicinity. -Kerry O. There's no reason to refute what you are saying - you are on the right track. However - the idea of "embryonic beings" falls short of the biblical doctrine of recieving a new physical body at the ressurection - until that time, it is the spirit that survives in heaven. Since there is no evilin heaven, there is no need to have to have discernment when nothing but the absolute truth is known. It is n't a matter of being an autotomaton, which I assume means having choices made for you. Why would one not remain with choices in heaven? It would be a matter of desire as opposed to the lesser of two evils, as it were. Also - why is one limited in "heaven" to the experiences here on earth - what does one have to do with the other - other than one having to answer for what they did here. If one does nothing wrong, they have nothing to answer for. What were you expecting to have to be refuted? But Eljay, most Christian doctrine says that humans by default are sinners. They are born sinful. And that choice is the basis for morality and freewill. How can a two-celled organism be said to be able to exercise choice? Here again we have contradiction explained away by special dispensations when it's convenient, while the rest of the time things are dealt out as absolutes, such as "No one cometh to the Father but by me." Then there are other observable phenomenon like human chimeras and identical twins that aren't easily explained by doctrine, either. We know that identical twins start out as the same zygote. So, were there two souls there from the start, or was one added only after the division? In the case of the rarer from of chimeras, where the embryoes of fraternal twins merge to form one fetus, we have the opposite problem. And we won't even go into the fact that embryoes can handily survive being frozen, no human ever born has. See, this is why I can't believe most Christian doctrine-- not only can it not explain these anomalies, it doesn't even allow for them! -Kerry O. |
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Many Christians claim that life begins at conception, concomitant, therefore, with the creation of a new immortal soul. Since Nature (read:God?) spontaneously aborts as many 10% of the living bodies of these alleged souls, and as theorized in this thread that these souls are given a free pass into heaven by virtue of never having the ability to make choices, does it not follow that 10% of the population of heaven must therefore be embryonic beings without free will, sentinence or moral experience? Virtual autotomatons with nothing in common with the rest of the population? I've never heard a logical refutation of this idea from any Christian. If they say anything, they'll invoke the "Mysterious" clause, drop the hot potato and burn rubber leaving the vicinity. -Kerry O. There's no reason to refute what you are saying - you are on the right track. However - the idea of "embryonic beings" falls short of the biblical doctrine of recieving a new physical body at the ressurection - until that time, it is the spirit that survives in heaven. Since there is no evilin heaven, there is no need to have to have discernment when nothing but the absolute truth is known. It is n't a matter of being an autotomaton, which I assume means having choices made for you. Why would one not remain with choices in heaven? It would be a matter of desire as opposed to the lesser of two evils, as it were. Also - why is one limited in "heaven" to the experiences here on earth - what does one have to do with the other - other than one having to answer for what they did here. If one does nothing wrong, they have nothing to answer for. What were you expecting to have to be refuted? But Eljay, most Christian doctrine says that humans by default are sinners. They are born sinful. And that choice is the basis for morality and freewill. How can a two-celled organism be said to be able to exercise choice? Here again we have contradiction explained away by special dispensations when it's convenient, while the rest of the time things are dealt out as absolutes, such as "No one cometh to the Father but by me." Then there are other observable phenomenon like human chimeras and identical twins that aren't easily explained by doctrine, either. We know that identical twins start out as the same zygote. So, were there two souls there from the start, or was one added only after the division? In the case of the rarer from of chimeras, where the embryoes of fraternal twins merge to form one fetus, we have the opposite problem. And we won't even go into the fact that embryoes can handily survive being frozen, no human ever born has. See, this is why I can't believe most Christian doctrine-- not only can it not explain these anomalies, it doesn't even allow for them! -Kerry O. the same sight that see these things as described, carry to the fountain of wisdom, that unleash all whole truth, that MUST apply evenly and equally across any entire spectrum of any absolute, or it is immediatley seen as partial logic, or emtional truth that is subject to the whims of any feeling, or of a logic of the mind, that can make anything as true........ indeed the gift of wisdom is alive and well as witnessed in the sight that see these discrepencies as any whole truth always will and does................ |
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Mao Tse Tung said, and I quote "religion is the opiate of the masses." No he didnt. Marx did ... and its opium of the masses, not opiate Havent read any more of your post, because if you cant get that right, then whats the point?
You are correct. It was Marx. So, please all, forgive me. And, it is opiate, not opium. And Belushi, what difference does it make who said it? For the purpose of this topic, NONE. The important thing is that it was said, by SOMEONE, and it helped me make my point. Now, do you have anything of substance to add? Anything that pertains to the subject at hand? Or, are you more interested in acting as the fact police? Calling me on an error in facts is OK(My college days are many years behind me). But to say that you wouldn't bother to read the rest of my post is in a word POMPOUS. You are quite correct! I was way out of line. It was 3am, I'd just woken up, and I was exceptionally pompous, and I wholeheartedly apologise. 
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Mao Tse Tung said, and I quote "religion is the opiate of the masses." No he didnt. Marx did ... and its opium of the masses, not opiate Havent read any more of your post, because if you cant get that right, then whats the point?
You are correct. It was Marx. So, please all, forgive me. And, it is opiate, not opium. And Belushi, what difference does it make who said it? For the purpose of this topic, NONE. The important thing is that it was said, by SOMEONE, and it helped me make my point. Now, do you have anything of substance to add? Anything that pertains to the subject at hand? Or, are you more interested in acting as the fact police? Calling me on an error in facts is OK(My college days are many years behind me). But to say that you wouldn't bother to read the rest of my post is in a word POMPOUS. You are quite correct! I was way out of line. It was 3am, I'd just woken up, and I was exceptionally pompous, and I wholeheartedly apologise.
Belushi, Thank you. I mean it. It takes a true gentleman to respond in such a way. I offer my hand in friendship. |
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But you'll both still go to hell is you don't accept Jesus as your saviour... Just saying...
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Edited by
Belushi
on
Mon 09/01/08 09:07 PM
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Belushi, Thank you. I mean it. It takes a true gentleman to respond in such a way. I offer my hand in friendship. You are very gracious. Thank you. I have mailed you. But you'll both still go to hell is you don't accept Jesus as your saviour... Just saying...
Then as an Englishman, I will quietly queue for my passport to get stamped for entry to hell with the pomposity only reserved for us and sarcastic humour. Because until hell freezes over, I would rather shove a pineapple up my butt than accept some imaginary freak as someone who could save me from myself!! 
Oh! ... and I will see you there. Get me a seat by the bar. 
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But you'll both still go to hell is you don't accept Jesus as your saviour... Just saying...
That may, or may not be true. But the more friends you make on earth, the more you'll have in heaven, or hell.
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Oh! ... and I will see you there. Get me a seat by the bar.
No saving on this thread mister..... |
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Hey Lilly, I just checked out your profile. Very nice, very pretty. But you should really get out in the sun more often. You look a little green in one of the pictures.
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Why people ask these questions of Christians or Fundamentalist is beyond me. They DO NOT HAVE ANY ANSWERS. They think they do, but they do not. They are not an authority for God or the Creator. They have no answers. They follow false doctrine, and they teach false doctrine. They are the blind brainwashed trying to lead others into blindness and delusions. Today there is a group of Jehovah's witnesses in our town going from door to door asking people what they think and feel about Armageddon, the wars, the end of the world and other such things. They first prey on your fears then they offer their solution ... God. Under their religion and their rules and their control of course. I printed a sign and hung it on my parents front door. It said: NO SOLICITATION ~Religions and otherwise. I love the Christians but I hate their doctrines. JB of course - what am i thinking JB - how stupid of me -  - from now on i'll just be >aloof< that is if someone will tell me what a --->loof<--- is? HMMM?
I'll just wait till others post questions and then like you and abra, i'll tear them a new a-hole for being so stupid as to ask someone who has no answers to reply to the questions being posed - i was blind but now i see -
Well dear Tribo let me rephrase my point. If a person does not believe in Christianity, why would they ask questions of Christians? There are a few reasons. 1.) In an attempt to dismantle their beliefs in hopes they will begin to see things the way you do.. or... 2.)because you do want to believe in Christianity and are sincerely looking for answers so you can move forward into Christian doctrine and get saved by Jesus Christ. 3.) To silence them from making unbelievable claims. 4.) In an effort to get them to rethink their beliefs and save them from their own delusions. Is there any other reason you might want to ask or even demand answers from Christians? You can continue if you want, I don't really mind, I just think it is an exercise in futility.
If you don't like Christianity, you could spend your energy creating a new and improved religion or belief system.
thank you dear Jackie, G, or JB, or whomever you are right now.
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3.) To silence them from making unbelievable claims.
I must admit, that one is a little annoying. At least for me. I guess Im too analytical or something. That could very well be a character flaw within myself. Its not that I want to silence as I enjoy confronting them and pointing out inconsistencies in logic. I can do it for days.
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Oh! ... and I will see you there. Get me a seat by the bar.
No saving on this thread mister..... I dont want to be saved. If I am saved I will have to face all the god-squad on this site and have them tell me they were all right for eternity!! Nahhh ... Im going in the ground. ... and if you cant save me a seat, then at least get me preferential parking! Where am I going to park my winged chariot and all my demons? |
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Hey Lilly, I just checked out your profile. Very nice, very pretty. But you should really get out in the sun more often. You look a little green in one of the pictures.
Watch your tongue or I'll sick my flying monkies on you..... |
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Hey Lilly, I just checked out your profile. Very nice, very pretty. But you should really get out in the sun more often. You look a little green in one of the pictures.
Watch your tongue or I'll sick my flying monkies on you..... Oh, no!! If I only had some c..c..c..courage 
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