Now where has this lady been the entire thread?? She's most wise.

Good Morning Krimsa and thank you! I posted earlier maybe on page 11, I don't know. I won't get into some of the debating that goes on and write tons of pages for those to read that no matter how many times someone tries to simplify something and just let people draw their on conclusions about what is real and what is not, what is right and what is wrong, they will keep on marching...whether to a deaf drummer or not!

Thats true. It happens a lot. Its why I try to stay out of the religion based topics specifically and focus more on scientific debates and issues of that nature. But every now and then someone will announce something so daft that it probably will end up stirring the pot anyway and causing a lot of ill feelings towards he or she. I am speaking of the condemnation comments and "see it my way" or you are bound for hellfire and purgatory with no end. That kind of thing is annoying and baseless in my opinion.

Narrow minded people will always exist, power hungry people will exists, the egotistical who must always be right will exists. For those people no matter how much insight might get injected into a conversation, they will forever ignore it.

What little I posted, I posted because there is so much pain and suffering dished out in the name of religion! God didn't intend that and I find that much despicable.

Jeffery Dahmer and what he did started the post...if someone wants to keep debating the issue of murder...then what does war do? Wars have, for thousands & thousands of years started with religion as the basis. A soldier carries a rifle and shoots, a pilot drops a bomb, both kill INNOCENT people. Some would then argue the INTENT. Either way, the intent was to kill.

Murder is murder, sin is sin. Forgiveness is forgiveness. How, why, or what is anyone's belief.

Yes

Where there seems to be a problem (at least for me) is the fact that a person who has been a practicing Muslim her entire life and never hurt anyone and certainly never murdered anyone would for whatever reason be rejected by god and sent directly to hell while this sociopathic monster who took her life would then be entitled to spend the rest of his days in heaven living in bliss simply because he embraced the Christian doctrine in some respect before death.

Why would your religion need to put such conditions on its members? If this young woman was a devout, practicing Muslim for her entire life up until the point it was brutally snuffed out, what would make her abhorrent in the so called loving eyes of your chosen god? You remember him right? The one that went around espousing things of this nature:

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Ok....Felt this needed to be said again.

God Sends NO ONE to HELL!!!!

NO ONE !!!!

Not a muslim, not a buddist..not a non believer..no one !!
Why?

Cause Man sends HIMSELF to hell.... by REJECTING JESUS!!

But IF a poor muslim girl is being killed and never heard of Jesus?

She is NOT going to hell,unless she rejects Jesus, ONLY AFTER God FIRST,thru a ministering angel if need be, makes Himself Known to her...... FIRST!!!

In other words, God is NOT NOT NOT going to send a poor muslim girl to hell, if she never heard of Jesus!!!

GOD will SOMEHOW make HIMSELF KNOWN TO HER FIRST..to give her a chance to either receive Him or reject Him.. and I sincerely DOUBT , that when
one is dying, anyone is going to reject Jesus.

And speaking of Muslims ..... MANY are receivng Jesus today...and why is that ?

Cause they are being presented with the Good News that Jesus SAVES, and NOT just another religion.

Christianity is NOT about religion in the first place..and was never MEANT to be about a religion......it is about receiving JESUS... Who is the Saviour for the WHOLE WORLD !!

I was wondering if anyone here actually knows what Muslims beieve. They believe that Jesus was a prophet just not the son of God, so they already accept Jesus and would be accepted into Heaven.

I think the Catholics might endorse their acceptance but not ALL Christian denominations. Someone might also want to clear that point up. Let's just say for arguments sake, she was not Muslim, but not Christian either.

They prefer their own Heaven with 72 servants. I don't understand Muslim women wanting to serve the men all their afterlife though.

If Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gayce were truely saved and were sincere about being sorry for what they did, yes they will be in heaven. If the victims were not saved and had not ask the Lord into their lives, no they will not be in heaven.

Each individual has to work their own salvation with fear and trembling. It is a person decision, but if the victims had accepted Jesus into their lives then yes, they will be in heaven also.

We are to forgive every kind of sin there is, and yes even murder. Jesus forgave the man on the cross. Are we to do less?

I do pray that the victims were saved and I also pray that both Jeffry Dahmer and John Wayne Gayce was saved.

I know alot of people don't want to hear that, but if you are truely saved then we are to rejoice when someone else is saved, no matter what they've done in their lives.

Blessings,
Char

Let's just say:

I have a stove in my house. I am familiar with it, so I know how it works. I go to some foreign country that does not have stoves, they have no clue how it works and I bring that someone back from that country and put them in my house. I do not tell them about the stove. This person that I brought in turns on one of the burners. He/she has no clue that when it turns red it is HOT. He/she touches it. Burns themselves. It hurts. Do I..the one who owns the stove in the first place and left him/her there w/o instructions...beat the HOLY crap out of this person because he touched the stove and hurt himself? Do I make him suffer forever because he didn't use something right that he had NO conception of? Or....am I the one to blame because I brought that person into my home and left him/her without proper instructions? If one has never experienced something, if one has never seen something, if one doesn't know how or the why of something...

Or...do I go to this person who has now hurt themselves..and first I administer first aid to help with the pain and then I tell them how to properly use the stove so they won't get hurt again. Does that mean they will always use the stove and never get burned again? Nope, for whatever reason, they may get distracted, they may forget the instructions...whatever. But when they hurt themselves again, do I then tell them NEVER NEVER EVER WILL YOU USE A STOVE AGAIN AND I WILL BANISH YOU FOREVER AND NEVER ALLOW YOU TO GO ANYWHERE NEAR A STOVE! NO, NO, NO! Again I will try to heal their hurt and again I will remind them how to use the stove!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOW! Great cop out excuse to throw away & not consider the validity of what has been established way before the revisionists hit the scene. Being blown by every wave & wind of doctrine. That's all anyone will find here.

Asking for clarification? More like starting a fire between believers & non bleievers is more like it. It's very apparent that people aren't posting to keep the peace but then they have to make creepy remarks even now. Pity them... it must be a slow day.

It doesn't negate what God's word says though. God expects purity of belief & faith in Him & His word. It's His way or the highway & for MANY good reasons that have been expressed ad nausium.

After saying that... this thread makes my point that all the non believer wants to do is argue to avoid the truth of what works & what doesn't.

If the silence is deafening it's only the sound of one not bothering to throw pearls to swine.

After being here for a while I know that a non believers arrogance has no bounds. They do like to point fingers at Christians though.

BTW... self defense is not murder. That goes for protecting oneself as well as preserving ones people. That is scriptural. In fact it says "death is REQUIRED for the shedding of innocent blood." Now I realize that many don't know the difference about what is innocent but I'm not going to even bother with that.

Here's some meat for the bloodhounds to chew on. ENJOY!

You didn't see the satire in that situation? I WOULDN'T do it, but that's what it seems they were saying, I gave a human situation to match the "spiritual one"....

Yes well even parents give their children some leeway before they reign them in.

Really? I don't, she is punished immediatly for her actions...

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
— Epicurus (ca. 341-270 BCE) Greek philosopher

Well what happens if she is HAPPY being Muslim. Its not that she has never heard of Jesus or Christianity over the course of her lifetime but she is content to be Muslim. She has every right to be doesn't she? So whats the problem? What has she done wrong? How do you know there is even a heaven? How can you comfortably dismiss the Muslim's belief in the after world? What makes your belief structure right and hers wrong? What if you end up going to hell because you are not Muslim? Do you see how preposterous this can become MS?

If I never achieve anything else I hope that one day I will stop being amazed at those who call themselves "CHRISTIANS" can be some of the most judgmental (Jesus speaks against that in the New Testament more frequently then any other sin), the must cruel, the most hateful, the most spiteful, the most hypocritical people I have ever met. And God is LOVE.

When I die and go to heaven, one of my pleasures will be to see the astounded look on faces of those "christians" when they see some of the other people that are there too!!!

if the christian theologians turn out to be correct, we will not know one another in heaven, all memories will be wiped away - clean slate - so you wont no Dahmer or whether a Muslim woman is there or not, or anyone else to know what their life was before. There will be no reason to want or look for others you knew here because you wont remember them to begin with, therefore - no condemnation or thoughts of who is or is not worthy to be there.

I always find it humorous that people think they will know people in heaven that they knew here.[Now this is orthodox christian theology i speak of not new fundie or evangelical thought].

Others speak of whether there pets will be there? well if they are you wont recognize them anyway. you won't remember you had any. This is keeping with the new body and spirit and mind those will have, one that will be filled with all things new that is how evil or sin, such as being judgemental,or other, disappears from those who are there.


So sorry, but you will not be amazed or have any pleasure gleened at who's there, nor will anyone else. It's a new life clean slate, a beginning again. Which well it should be - if it is to truly be heaven, who would want to carry the things of this world into a place of what is said to be a place of eternal happiness?