100% FREE ONLINE DATING
sponsored links
Previous
| Topic: I'm just asking for clarification.... | |
|---|---|
|
|
|
Although I am of the opinion that the proffered scenario is a good illustration of the absurdity of the hard-line christian doctrine, ya gotta admit that this is a VERY good point. I don't think it's a good point at all. To not believe in something is not at all the same as rejecting it. What really amazes me is that people seem to be totally ok with Jesus being THAT stupid! I'm only a mere mortal man and I know better than that. If run off and play hide & seek and never fullfill any of the promises I made before I left, could I really blame people for not believing in me? Absoltuely NOT. There's no connection at all. I'd have to be a completely moron to think that way. And Jesus is no exemption to that same conclusion. The whole idea that non-belief equates to rejection is utterly groundless and without merit. So, no, I don't agree with Eljay's response. It's totally unsound and without merit. Well - it's your hypothetical situation, so I suppose you can have any illogical premise be true that you wish. So - she didn't believe in Jesus, yet didn't reject him - now how did she not get to heaven again? Oh, right - she was playing hide and seek with Jesus. That idea is surely worth merit. 
according to the situation she didnt get into heaven because he didnt worship him/didnt believe in the tripe that the bible pours out and people call religion. the idea that she didnt go to heaven has no merit because it doesnt make sense, as the points have been clearly made throughout this disscussion. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You are not refused entrance into heaven because of ignorance - but because of rebellion. You make my own points for me Eljay. To not believe in the Bible is not rebellion. Not believing in something is not rebellion. That's absurd. If you don't believe it then you just don't believe it. In order to rebel you'd have to believe that it's true and then refuse to obey it. But to not believe that it's true is not rebellion. This is where Christians really seem to lose it. It makes no sense to equate disbelief with rebellion. They aren't even close to being the same thing. ABSOLUTELY!! I rebelled against SANTA CLAUSE, THE EASTER BUNNY, THE TOOTH FAIRY. I'm really a rebellious person. I rebel against Unicorns. JB Come one come all and join the rebellion. Put an end to the myths that demand we believe in them. Here - let me remind you two of something... In Abra's "story" - he created a scenario of Heaven, Jesus is there and the girl is not. Why - he asked. Because she didn't want to be - I said. She was in rebellin to th Jesus of Abra's story. What has that got to do with Anything you've posted? Let us not forget that Abra's srory is a fairy tale as well. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
man wrote the bible, thus man is resposible for all that is in the bible, thus it is unreliable.
if god makes himself known to people in his own then who is to say that it is through th bible? or through religion? why cant it be through what people have to learn by themselves through what they have seen of the world and what they have come to believe by themselves. and why in order to get to heaven do you only have to believe in that jesus died? anyone can say yes, i believe jesus diedforme. and if that is the case then noone has to worry aout their sins because as long as they say what i did was wrong please fogive me. the idea of having jesus die for oursins is only to give a scapegoat to people who dont want to be held responsible for their actions. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You are not refused entrance into heaven because of ignorance - but because of rebellion. Ok, so lets say that in some third world country that is taken over by other countries on a daily basis and the basics are barely there (ie...food, water, shelter) and a rebel troup comes in and kills a whole tribe or town, do those children who have never been exposed to Christianity refused in heaven? It says in the Bible the ONLY way to heaven is acceptance right? As I understand it, you are only given a place in heaven if you accept Jesus as your savior.... If I don't know about Jesus does that mean I am not allowed in heaven? Okay..there is an exception, depending on the age of the children. If they have not reached the age of understanding, then they are not held accountable and do go to heaven. (I cannot remember the source at the moment--maybe someone else knows?) My recollection is that children under the age of 7 years are received into heaven without acceptance of Jesus as their Savior. Otherwise, Jesus is the only way. So a child that is 8 is SOL, or a child who is 14 with Downs syndrom is sent to hell due to their non worshiping of this God? No - they're not. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
so what you are saying is "yes, yes infact the serial killer would be in heaven and his victim in hell" Ya, I can't follow an egotistical God like that, that would do such a vengeful thing .... I can go about my life knowing I made the right choice. But it isn't about what anyone else has done - but what YOU have done. Are you going to make a decision about God based on what you've read in a thread? Hmmm.... I'm curious - have you read the New Testament? |
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Belushi
on
Mon 09/01/08 01:46 AM
|
|
Here is a child of God asking God what is necessary for him to do in order to inherit eternal life. And God said to him: Keep the commandments. And the child said to the Almighty: "Which?" Now, if there ever has been an opportunity given to the Almighty to furnish a man of an inquiring mind with the necessary information upon that subject, here was the opportunity. "He said unto him, which? And Jesus said: Thou shalt do no murder; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not bear false witness; honor thy father and mother; and thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." He did not say to him: "You must believe in me that I am the only begotten son of the living God." He did not say: "You must be born again." He did not say: "You must believe the Bible." He did not say: "You must remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." He simply said: "Thou shalt do no murder. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness. Honor thy father and thy mother; and thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself." Again, can it be more clear than that?? Why would Jesus lie to this person and tell him something OTHER than what he needed for salvation? Does this make ANY impact on you? You are so right! Jesus simply doesn't support what Christian try to claim. It's the Christians who are the liars! Behead them all! 
I have always maintained that Jesus himself was a liar. He says numerous times that all your prayers will be answered. Thats not true. But I think, James, thats a little harsh ... I mean, beheading is a little archaic and unnecessary Can we crucify them instead? 
i was told tht god always answers prayers, but that sometims the answer is no. so it just depends on how you interpet answering, does god give you everything you ask for just ecause you asked for it, or does he use his judgement to decide if its in your best interest? Im sure the millions of starving people in the African continent would disagree with you ... or would you say that its god's way of controlling the population by starving them to death I would be happy to concede that if god existed that he would give you what you need rather that what you want, but as I ave never prayed in my life, I wouldnt know. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So are Buddha, the Dali Lama and Ghandi in hell? Be more concerned with the types of spirits you are allowing near you. Maybe that's why God says to have purity in worship. To worship Him, & Him alone. I would rather have the real thing instead of sloppy seconds. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
so what you are saying is "yes, yes infact the serial killer would be in heaven and his victim in hell" Ya, I can't follow an egotistical God like that, that would do such a vengeful thing .... I can go about my life knowing I made the right choice. Why are you asking? You already made yourself judge & jury in your "assumption" that God is egotistical. If you believe in a spirit world then what "spirit" are you worshipping? That's why God demands purity in worship. There are spirits attached to all that. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Many Christians claim that life begins at conception, concomitant, therefore, with the creation of a new immortal soul.
Since Nature (read:God?) spontaneously aborts as many 10% of the living bodies of these alleged souls, and as theorized in this thread that these souls are given a free pass into heaven by virtue of never having the ability to make choices, does it not follow that 10% of the population of heaven must therefore be embryonic beings without free will, sentinence or moral experience? Virtual autotomatons with nothing in common with the rest of the population? I've never heard a logical refutation of this idea from any Christian. If they say anything, they'll invoke the "Mysterious" clause, drop the hot potato and burn rubber leaving the vicinity. -Kerry O. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So are Buddha, the Dali Lama and Ghandi in hell? You don't know what took place betwen them and God at that last moment, or in those last moments. God gives everyone a chance to know Him. Jesus was sent to the whole world...and crossses the borders of every religion...and therefore is not just for chrstians. Jesus dies for All..and came to Save All...... and God WILL give every man a chance to know Him....in one way or another....and to those who have not known or heard, God will even send ministrering angels.....to reach man on the backside of a desert if God has to ..but God WILL let man know...every man (children are however excluded, and not held accountable, caasue they are too young to understand ). Again..God is a God of Tender Mercies and Loving Kindness....and MUCH PATIENCE......He waits ever so PATIENTLY for man to come to Him...but man must come to God WILLINGLY. God will NEVER force man to come to Him....one must COME to Jesus and recieve Jesus with a WILLING HEART..that is all God asks for...a willing heart to believe in the One He sent to save All mankind...Jesus . 
I will guarentte you beyond a shadow of a doubt that buddha, The Dali Lahma, and Ghandi did not accept Jesus as their savior in any moment in their life... But my question is with the selflessness of their actions if they didn't did they go to hell? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I will guarentte you beyond a shadow of a doubt that buddha, The Dali Lahma, and Ghandi did not accept Jesus as their savior in any moment in their life... But my question is with the selflessness of their actions if they didn't did they go to hell? They cannot answer you or it would put an enormous hole in their fallacy. Either way. This is the problem with religion in general. When you start comparing people of different religions, then the whole ridiculous situation falls apart. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think that he honored her wish and she recieved what she desired. She did not want Jesus in her life - why would she now want to be with him in death? When I first read it I accepted that as an answer, thinking as a selfish human, but are you telling me that God would prefer in his company those who worship him and do wrong then those who may or maynot and do right? Are you saying that God is so egotistical that he only wants to be worshiped and not for us to do the right things in life? I'm not sure how you got that out of what I stated. In refering to Abra's hypothetical scenario (note: hypothetical) the charming young lady chose to reject God and Jesus. So why would she want to spend eternity with Him? After all - who is rejecting who in his story? She prefered to be with the God of Pantheism than with Jesus - so Jesus gave her what she desired. what if you accept Jesus as one of many in your pantheon? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
so what you are saying is "yes, yes infact the serial killer would be in heaven and his victim in hell" Ya, I can't follow an egotistical God like that, that would do such a vengeful thing .... I can go about my life knowing I made the right choice. But it isn't about what anyone else has done - but what YOU have done. Are you going to make a decision about God based on what you've read in a thread? Hmmm.... I'm curious - have you read the New Testament? I'm legal clergy, I studied my own and many other religions of the worlds.... If some random person said you had to follow Hilter to be rewarded with everlasting life and riches but you knew of the terror he imposed on unsuspecting victims would you do that? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So are Buddha, the Dali Lama and Ghandi in hell? Be more concerned with the types of spirits you are allowing near you. Maybe that's why God says to have purity in worship. To worship Him, & Him alone. I would rather have the real thing instead of sloppy seconds. I prefer yes and no answers I can walk my own walk down a primrose path.... So yes or no they are in hell.... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
so what you are saying is "yes, yes infact the serial killer would be in heaven and his victim in hell" Ya, I can't follow an egotistical God like that, that would do such a vengeful thing .... I can go about my life knowing I made the right choice. Why are you asking? You already made yourself judge & jury in your "assumption" that God is egotistical. If you believe in a spirit world then what "spirit" are you worshipping? That's why God demands purity in worship. There are spirits attached to all that. I'm asking because I'm an open minded individual, and can see the forest for the trees, and this is one of my major hang ups in life about Christianity.... No one yet has answered my question that would make me change my mind, and yes, I am willing to change it. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Quikstepper
on
Mon 09/01/08 08:03 AM
|
|
So are Buddha, the Dali Lama and Ghandi in hell? You don't know what took place betwen them and God at that last moment, or in those last moments. God gives everyone a chance to know Him. Jesus was sent to the whole world...and crossses the borders of every religion...and therefore is not just for chrstians. Jesus dies for All..and came to Save All...... and God WILL give every man a chance to know Him....in one way or another....and to those who have not known or heard, God will even send ministrering angels.....to reach man on the backside of a desert if God has to ..but God WILL let man know...every man (children are however excluded, and not held accountable, caasue they are too young to understand ). Again..God is a God of Tender Mercies and Loving Kindness....and MUCH PATIENCE......He waits ever so PATIENTLY for man to come to Him...but man must come to God WILLINGLY. God will NEVER force man to come to Him....one must COME to Jesus and recieve Jesus with a WILLING HEART..that is all God asks for...a willing heart to believe in the One He sent to save All mankind...Jesus .
I will guarentte you beyond a shadow of a doubt that buddha, The Dali Lahma, and Ghandi did not accept Jesus as their savior in any moment in their life... But my question is with the selflessness of their actions if they didn't did they go to hell? Many in life do selfless things. Purity in spirit means just that...not following after false doctrines or ways of men. Most of all seducing spirits. You set your own self up for falls when you allow other spirits other than God's into your life & the life of your family. I laugh when people indulge themselves in things like reincarnation etc... they curse themselves to doom. If that isn't dogma I don't know what is. Having to work for your salvation isn't salvation. So why would you care about some other person's choice? Make your own choice. Are you in doubt or are you just rebelling against God? Have you rejected God out of frustration? Do you think you failed somehow some "God" test? Do you think others never felt the same way? Maybe those might be beter questions to ask yourself. Yu think? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Many in life do selfless things. Purity in spirit means just that...not following after false doctrines or ways of men.
You set your own self up for falls when you allow other spirits other than God's into your life & the life of your family. So what have those three done to set themselves up for falls then? I laugh when people indulge themselves in things like reincarnation etc... they curse themselves to doom. If that isn't dogma I don't know what is. Having to work for your salvation isn't salvation.
So, when you try and convert someone to xtianity that isnt god's work then? When you go to church to get on your knees and beg forgiveness that isnt work then? So why would you care about some other person's choice? Make your own choice. Are you in doubt or are you just rebelling against God? Have you rejected God out of frustration? Do you think you failed somehow some "God" test? Do you think others never felt the same way?
Who's god? or is it Whose god? Who's god? or is it Whose god? I agree wholeheartedly ... thanks for that |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I know exactly who I am and where I stand in life, I am an eternal student.... I'm strong enough in my convictions to question other schools of thought.
However forcus is being taken off of the topic by questioning my spirituality... So it seems the concensus is "yes the murderer is in heaven and the victim is in hell" and that buddha, Ghandi, and all of the Dali Lahmas are in hell..... I'm even stronger in my convictions now... Thanks for all the info folks... I knew I had made the right choice in my life. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
so what you are saying is "yes, yes infact the serial killer would be in heaven and his victim in hell" Ya, I can't follow an egotistical God like that, that would do such a vengeful thing .... I can go about my life knowing I made the right choice. Why are you asking? You already made yourself judge & jury in your "assumption" that God is egotistical. If you believe in a spirit world then what "spirit" are you worshipping? That's why God demands purity in worship. There are spirits attached to all that. I'm asking because I'm an open minded individual, and can see the forest for the trees, and this is one of my major hang ups in life about Christianity.... No one yet has answered my question that would make me change my mind, and yes, I am willing to change it. You won't get an answer that will suit you because you're confused. Studying this religion & that one does that to people. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
so what you are saying is "yes, yes infact the serial killer would be in heaven and his victim in hell" Ya, I can't follow an egotistical God like that, that would do such a vengeful thing .... I can go about my life knowing I made the right choice. Why are you asking? You already made yourself judge & jury in your "assumption" that God is egotistical. If you believe in a spirit world then what "spirit" are you worshipping? That's why God demands purity in worship. There are spirits attached to all that. I'm asking because I'm an open minded individual, and can see the forest for the trees, and this is one of my major hang ups in life about Christianity.... No one yet has answered my question that would make me change my mind, and yes, I am willing to change it. You won't get an answer that will suit you because you're confused. Studying this religion & that one does that to people. Oh so I should only study one and believe in that one that I study should I? |
|
|
|
|
