The Bible, (What people now call "The old Testament") is full of gross contradictions and an angry vengeful God of blood sacrifices. It was the book of the Jews and their religion.

The New Testament is Pure fiction. It was written in an effort to destroy Judaism and create a new religion by Roman aristocrats.

All of the characters in the new Testament are pure fiction.
This is my conclusion.

Many people agree with this. One day this will be an accepted fact. People are tired of religion and being told how to live their lives and being told who and how to worship.

The people who wrote the New Testament (The Pisos) had no idea that people 2000 years into the future would still be reading it.

JB

I totally agree. Education is an enemy to the oppressors and the controllers who want to tell you how to think.

That is a tactic of cults. Read nothing else, they will tell you.

JB

You will have to excuse certain people ... they have moments of lucidity and then when it passes they come on here ...

Im still waiting for an answer to the question.

Point is....... Right is right....
And wrong is wrong....... the life you live is your choice...... Heaven, hell??? Who cares... How do you want to be remembered when you die..... What legacy and values shall you pass to your children...... I do right as possible with my life.......As for this topic..... I refuse to believe in something that does not believe in me....

First I am going to answer Lily's first question for post...then go though it.

Yes this is absolute fact Lily.....Believe and accept Christ with all your heart, soul, and mind and guaranteed an E ticket ride to heaven. Don't accept which of course is each man's free will and well pay the consequences.
Dahmer Likely To Turn To Religion, Expert Says

by Eldon Knoche, Sentinel staff writer [ Milwaukee Sentinel, Monday, 17 Fen 92 ]

Jeffrey Dahmer is likely to turn to religion in prison, but 40 years from now he probably will be psychologically unchanged, psychiatrist Basil Jackson said Sunday.

Though debate has focused on whether the convicted killer should be sent to prison or a mental hospital, "from a psychiatric point of view it doesn't make much difference for Mr. Dahmer," Jackson said. "Even if sent to the best psychiatric treatment, the outlook would not be good."

Jackson, who has counseled jailed televangelist Jim Bakker, among others, was asked for his assessment of how Dahmer will function in incarceration.

"I would anticipate that he would become deeply religious," Jackson said. "There's already signs of that."

"This is a very common method of adaptation in an isolated environment. He has the potential for the quasi-spiritual, as evidenced by the temples. He has been reading the New Testament."

There was testimony at Dahmer's trial about how he had planned to build a temple in his apartment, using skulls of his victims.

Jackson expects Dahmer to adjust well in prison and to "kind of fade into the woodwork. As long as he can have the basic needs satisfied -- cigarettes, reading, radio -- he will vegetate the rest of his life.

As for his relationship with other prisoners, 'Mr. Dahmer will not annoy anybody and will not intrude into their lives," the psychiatrist said.

Dahmer probably would cooperate with an intensive psychiatric examination because he likes to be the center of attention, Jackson said.

'The way he displayed the made-up tabloid in court Friday, he's really the king of the mountain," Jackson said, referring to Dahmer's display during a court recess of a tabloid newspaper with the headline: "Milwaukee Cannibal Kills His Cellmate."

Dahmer someday may even confess to more killings, whether they occurred or not, to become the center of attention again, Jackson said.

Or, he may remember more killings that he repressed because he was drinking heavily while killing, or because of "the horrific, catastrophic nature of the events," Jackson said.

##30##
Dahmer Is Baptized In Prison Tub

[The Milwaukee Sentinel, front page with color photo, 12 May 94]
by Steven Walters, Sentinel Madison Burear

Madison -- A Madison minister said Wednesday he baptized convicted serial killer Jeffrey L. Dahmer in a state prison whirlpool Tuesday afternoon.

Roy Ratcliff, 47, said he, Dahmer, the prison chaplain and two guards walked from Dahmer's cell area down a long hall about 2p.m. Tuesday to the prison infirmary, where Dahmer was baptized by immersion.

The whirlpool at the Columbia Correctional Institution in Portage, where Dahmer is serving 15 life terms, was filled for Tuesday's ceremony, Ratcliff said.

Baptism by immersion requires that the celebrant be dunked under water, signifying that person's cleansing of sins and new relationship with God.

An assistant to the prison warden confirmed the baptism took place, but said no further details would be released.

"It's a personal matter," the official said.

Ratcliff, minister of the 100-member Church of Christ, said he began making plans to baptize Dahmer after a one-hour meeting April 20.

Ratcliff said he believes Dahmer made a true spiritual decision to be baptized.

Dahmer "was able to convince me this was not just a gag. It was something he felt and believed in," Ratcliff said.

"I was convinced that he wanted God in his life," Ratcliff said of their April meeting.

They met "in a little room with just a table and a couple of chairs," and Dahmer said he wanted his "sins washed away" by renewing his personal relationship with Jesus Christ, Ratcliff said.

Convinced of Dahmer's sincerity, Ratcliff said, he will begin meeting with Dahmer at 1:30p.m. Wednesdays, starting next week, to read and study the Bible together.

Ratcliff said both he and Dahmer were nervous during their first meeting.

"You're a little bit anxious about it," Ratcliff said. "I had no idea what his thinking was."

Ratcliff said he was asked to baptize Dahmer by Mary H. Mott, an Arlington, Va., woman who called him after she sent Dahmer 12 Bible correspondence lessons in mid-March.

After seeing a televised interview with Dahmer and his father, Mott, 69, said she concluded "that young man dowsn't know anything except evil." Dahmer has confessed to killing 17 young men and boys.

Mott said she then called the prison, was told by a guard how to send materials to Dahmer and sent him a Bible and the 12 "World Bible School" correspondence school lessons.

On April 1, Mott said, Dahmer typed her a note, thanked her for the Bible and the study lessons, and added:

"I want to accept the Lord. Would you please try to find someone to bring a baptistry tank to the prison?"

In that letter, Dahmer also signed a statement acknowledging that he wanted to accept Christ, Mott said.

When she got that letter, Mott said, "I got on the phone again."

"God forgives all sins," said Mott, who retured in 1975 after a 32-year career with the Defense Department. "God does not consider one sin greater than the other."

Mott said she first called a Baraboo-area minister, who explained that he was moving from the area and gave her Ratcliff's name.

Mott said Dahmer also sent her the completed Bible study lessons, which she "graded."

"He did very well," she said of the lessons. "He had to miss two or three (questions), out of 12 lessons."

After returning from the April 20 meeting with Dahmer, Ratcliff said, he began working with prison officials on whether a baptistry tank could be shipped into the maximum-security prison.

When prison officials offered the whirlpool, Ratcliff said, he and Dahmer agreed.

Mott said Ratcliff phoned her after Tuesday's ceremony.

"It was just real exciting," she said. "It's all to glorify God."

In his career as a minister and evangelist, Ratcliff said, he has baptized people "in rivers and creeks," but never anyone "so well-known."

Dahmer "seemed to understand very clearly what needed to be done," Ratcliff added.

On May 10, 1994, Gacy was executed at Stateville Correctional Center[16] in Joliet, Illinois, by lethal injection. His last meal consisted of a dozen deep fried shrimp, a bucket of original recipe chicken from KFC, a pound of fresh strawberries and french fries. His execution was a minor media sensation, and large crowds of people gathered for "execution parties" outside the penitentiary, with numerous arrests for public intoxication, open container violations, and disorderly conduct. Vendors sold Gacy-related T-shirts and other merchandise, and the crowd cheered at the moment when Gacy was pronounced dead.

According to reports, Gacy did not express remorse. His last words to his lawyer in his cell were to the effect that killing him would not bring anyone back, and it is reported his last words were "kiss my ass," which he said to a guard while he was being sent to the execution chamber.[17]


Now also believe this, if someone thinks they can keep committing crimes and then say they are born again and it be forgiven. It doesn't work that way. When Dahmer asked the Lord in it was heart felt but if he would of just for argument sake killed again....all is null and void.


Everyone but the end times will know exactly who Jesus is and what his purpose on earth is. For all those now such as victims of crime I think would be on an individual basis...I will give an example. If Jeffrey Daymer killed a kid that was say 18 and was always in trouble, rebelled against his parents. Had God in his life and then decided not for him. Well I would have to say the odds are hell. Now you have a newborn who dies at birth. Who does not or could not know God. Heaven.

Eljay, you're not even making sense.

You say that she preferred to be with teh God fo Pantheism so Jesus gave you what she desired.

So are you saying that the woman is then with the "God" of Pantheism?

Are you suggesting that Jesus should tell her mother at heaven's gate that her daughter is in the Pantheistic Heaven, just two heavens over to the right?

What do you think her mother would do?

Do you think her mother would hang around with Jesus for eternity?

Probably not, she'd probably just thank Jesus for the information and run over to the Pantheistic Heaven to be with her daughter. After all, the pantheisic heaven has no requirements to get it, so she won't need to worry about getting in.

You twist the whole story around. You try to make it sound different from what the Christians are actually claiming. They aren't suggesting that if you don't believe in Jesus you'll just go off to some other La La Land. They are suggesting that if you don't accept Jesus you'll be sent to a hellish place of eternal damnation and be punished.

So you're suggestion as a solution to the story doesn't fit in with what Christians are trying to claim.

So, a simple yes or no ...

Would Dahmer be accepted in to heaven?

Not if I were god..........

But by christian standards.... Probably and Sadly Yes.....

Apparently Jesus died so we could all run amuck on this planet,
And then say "OOPS MY BAD" Forgive me father for I have sinned...........

and then you have to ask them ....

This is true. Some people have actually suggested that I bash Jesus, but in truth I don't. What I bash is the Christian's claims of what Jesus is all about. They are the one's who make him out to be an egotistical hateful person.

And you're correct too that while the story of Jesus' teachings is a wonderful story the rest of the Bible is pretty damn ugly actually.

Jesus freaks try to put the spotlight on Jesus and sweep the God of Abraham under the carpet. They are walking all over the real God of the Bible and don't even seem to care. In truth the Christians crucified the God of Abraham and replaced him with Jesus.

I too am a fan of Jesus!

People might have a hard time believing that from my posts, but in truth what I bash are what I believe to be totally unwarranted misconceptions.

Of course, I'm talking about the teachings of Jesus, and not necessarily all the demagoguery that goes with it. I don't believe that Jesus was sent by the God of Abraham via a virin birth. Jesus didn't even seem to agree with much of what was in the Old Testament. How could he have been the same God? It's not even possible!

I also believe that while he may well have been crucified by the Romans, it was not his intent to be crucified, he was not the sacrificial lamb of God and he did not raise from the dead.

Once a person get's past all that, then they can look at the teachings of Jesus in a new light. In fact, if you compare the teachings of Jesus with the teachings of Buddha you'll quickly see that they were teaching precisely the same things!

Jesus didn't offer anything that Buddha didn't already offer many centuries before. (unless of course you buy into the nonsense that he died to pay for your sins). But if you want to believe that then you better bow down and worship the God of Abraham and NOT Jesus! If that scenario is true, Jesus was nothing more than God's sacrifical lamb! You better not be worshiping the lamb! You be worshiping the god who sacrificed it for you!!! So Christians are totally out of line trying to turn the sacrificial lamb into the object of their worship anyway.

People are attracted to the story of Jesus more so than the story of Buddha because they see Jesus in a more romantic light. Especially if they believe that he died for their sins. They see that as the ultimate 'sacrifice' for them.

But if you stop and think about it Jesus didn't die anyway!

If the wages of sin is death, then the check bounced because Jesus was raised from the dead and lives in Heaven with his Father. In other words, God didn't "sacrifice" anything even if the story were true!

The whole thing is a "Have your cake and eat it too religion"

Jesus was God but he isn't God.

God sacrificed his only begotten Son, but didn't really sacrifice him at all!

God is all powerful, but is at war with a petty fallen angel!

It's just contradiction after contradiction after contradition.

"Have your cake and eat it too" with every single claim.

So Feral someone I know knows her Bible says "yes, yes the murderer would go to heaven and the victim goes to hell"

So much for the experts

But MorningSong, if you truly believe this then why would Christians be so concerned with proselyzing and telling everyone they need to be saved.

If God will ALWAYS make Himself know to man to give him a chance to accept Him WILLINGLY then what's the problem? --Abra--


Abra--perfect point. I had heard about a documentary film called "Jesus Camp" that was made a few years ago. I decided to rent it and well, my hope for the future was greatly diminished. It basically follows a group of Pentecostal Church leaders who host a Jesus Camp in Devil's Lake, ND (no, not kidding) each year. It is run by a vile youth pastor named Becky and supported by a number of parents who believe that guilt and tears equal repentance and faith.

Some of these kids are younger than five---and they are being asked to think, to think about the bad things they've done and then to repent. 5 and 6 years old--some older, but some that young.

While watching---I wanted to vomit.

One particularly heartbreaking scene was when a little boy--maybe 5 or 6 was speaking in front of everyone--at camp. With a microphone and a stunned look he said that he wasn't really doing a great job as a Christian--that it was hard for him because with Jesus he could not really know him like he knew other people or see him. He was on to something--he was being a skeptic but he soon went back to the--"I need to do more, need to believe more" something to that extent and it freaking killed me. It was pure child abuse.

He's 5 or 6 years old......LET him be a kid for a while--for the love of the god those people pray to--let him be a kid. But there is a point--there is a huge point in relation to MorningSong's statement about God revealing Himself.

Abra nailed it---so if that is true, MorningSong then why the need to minister so much to kids? Why not let God reveal Himself without guilt ridden Bible Camps. If the argument is that the camps ARE God revealing Himself then I'd counter with a simple--NO--that is GUILT revealing itself--not God.

This notion, that kids, kids that are that young should be bawling heads towards the heavens saying again and again, "No more, NO more, NO MORE......is heart-wrenching.

Oh, and the "No More" that was in response to no more being fake, no more sin, no more insincerity."

Watch the film. It was not put on by a group of atheists. In fact it was made by two women who gave 96% of the film's time to the Christian side and 4% to the opposing view. Seriously.

-Drew

By the christian standards....... Yuppers........

How vile!! That sort of indoctrination should be outlawed.

They are worse than the most heinous madmen ever.

How anyone can allow this child abuse to continue is beyond me!

It's true. It is child abuse!

It's horrific what people will do in the name of Jesus.

Utterly horrific!

Its nothing more than a cult!
Full of mentally unstable, self-absorbed, control freaks!

seems like a fair question to ask - HMM??

Why people ask these questions of Christians or Fundamentalist is beyond me.

They DO NOT HAVE ANY ANSWERS.

They think they do, but and they do not. They are not an authority for God or the Creator. They have no answers. They follow false doctrine, and they teach false doctrine.

They are the blind brainwashed trying to lead others into blindness and delusions.

Today there is a group of Jehovah's witnesses in our town going from door to door asking people what they think and feel about Armageddon, the wars, the end of the world and other such things. They first prey on your fears then they offer their solution ... God. Under their religion and their rules and their control of course.

I printed a sign and hung it on my parents front door. It said:

NO SOLICITATION ~Religions and otherwise.

I love the Christians but I hate their doctrines.

JB

Although probably not to this extent, I had these kinds of experiences with my Fundy relatives at a young age. Took a lot anxiety to sweat it out of my psyche, too.

-Kerry O.