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| Topic: I'm just asking for clarification.... | |
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and Thank God Tribo!!!! The part about heaven that I wrote was simply being facetious.
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Well there is the concept of "Rainbow Bridge" which is a pet heaven of sorts. I think the idea there is you are in fact reunited with EVERY single pet you have ever had that passed before you and then you must take care of them for all eternity. Every goldfish that died, every mouse, every dog, whatever you had over the course of your lifetime. Man, that would be a lot of work.
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and Thank God Tribo!!!! The part about heaven that I wrote was simply being facetious.  sorry OMTA, i was responding to another post, but now that i have read your post i see you writing about dahmer. And as i say whoever is there dahmer, or the guy that blew up the bldgs in oklahoma? or other insane muderers, they will not remember what they did nor will others - clean slate new beginning. as to facetious, why that's my middle name - hmm? or is it troll. or nazi demon from hell? or stealers of childrens souls? i've got so many from the fundies and evangelicals on here i forget now - 
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Edited by
tribo
on
Sun 09/07/08 01:45 PM
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Well there is the concept of "Rainbow Bridge" which is a pet heaven of sorts. I think the idea there is you are in fact reunited with EVERY single pet you have ever had that passed before you and then you must take care of them for all eternity. Every goldfish that died, every mouse, every dog, whatever you had over the course of your lifetime. Man, that would be a lot of work.
well i think that's a nice thing to believe, but i was talking theology only, from biblical perspective only. If by chance it is true, then we will not remember them or they us - it's not like you'll walk through the pearly gates and rover jumps up and slobber's all over you -
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Sun 09/07/08 01:53 PM
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Oh I know. I thought it was worth mentioning though because Rainbow Bridge is pretty much a concept most people will at least be familiar with if you mention the name. Im not sure who coined the phrase exactly or how long its been around but we know that animals have ALWAYS been very important in the lives of humans, either pet or by virtue of religious significance. Just look at the Egyptians with their cats. It stands to reason in heaven, that we would not have any recollection of who we were which is kind of a strange concept. That would also extend to pets because they were part of what we were on earth. Of course if you don't believe in heaven then there is any number of possibilities. Only one of which is reincarnation.
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Edited by
tribo
on
Sun 09/07/08 01:54 PM
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Oh I know. I thought it was worth mentioning though because Rainbow Bridge is pretty much a concept most people will at least be familiar with if you mention the name. Im not sure who coined the phrase exactly or how long its been around but we know that animals have ALWAYS been very important in the lives of humans, either pet or by virtue of religious significance. Just look at the Egyptians with their cats. don't get me wrong i love dogs - just as long as their someone else's hahaha |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Sun 09/07/08 02:31 PM
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Yeah cats. The Egyptians obsessed over them. Look here.
http://www.touregypt.net/magazine/mag04012001/magf1.htm I love that line"Cats domesticated the ancient Egyptians" Typical.
They also mummified their pet cats. I looked up Rainbow Bridge and basically its the place that the pets go after they die and they wait there for you. Once you die, you are reunited with your pet and you cross Rainbow Bridge together. Thats the story anyway. Its says "author unknown" on the actual concept. |
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Yeah cats. The Egyptians obsessed over them. Look here. http://www.touregypt.net/magazine/mag04012001/magf1.htm I love that line"Cats domesticated the ancient Egyptians" Typical.
They also mummified their pet cats. actually about 20 yrs ago they took the egyptian mau and cross bread it with an asian leopard [cant remember the name] and came up with a great new breed it can look real exotic but is tame enough for a good house cat, cant remeber the name i ll look it up though. |
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In the Bible it says that if you repent/get saved/ accept jesus as your saviour (however you want to put it) you will be allowed into heaven and say Jeffrey Dahmer or John Wayne Gayce on his death bed was saved/repented/ accepted Jesus as his saviour is he in heaven? and on the flip side would his victims if not given the chance to be saved/repent/accepted jesus as their saviour are they in hell? God doesn't exist. |
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www.defiant.net/registry.html
link to bengal cats i was talking of. |
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http://www.aluren.com/gallery/pages/cat02.html
Wow they are beautiful kitties! Its kind of getting  though.
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http://www.aluren.com/gallery/pages/cat02.html Wow they are beautiful kitties! Its kind of getting though.
i mailed you have fun lots of pics |
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Okay then. Explain WHY the Muslim (this is a hypothetical) victim in this case would end up being condemned to hell and the murderer would go to heaven based solely on the fact that he "found jesus" in prison or some time before passing. And before you go too far in that direction, we all know how serious the devoutly religious can take the "thou shalt not kill" commandment....Should I start bringing up some talking points in history? Because the Muslim rejected Jesus, and the Murderer accepted him. Well thats a load of crap then, plain and simple. Its exclusionary, divisive, manipulative and nothing I would want to be involved with. But the important thing to keep in mind is that just because you may feel I am bound for hell as a "non-believer" postmortem, doesn't make it automatically so. I on the other hand, am not the type of person that would presume to project my ugly thoughts and feelings of condemnation and eternal purgatory upon you. You asked to explain "Why". Thus - the response. I don't "feel" one way or the other about you. Whereever you may "end-up" has nothing to do with what you might think "I feel", and everything to do with what YOU think. Why are you projecting my response onto yourself. Don't you think I'm capable of responding to your questions without you thinking I've somehow passed judgement on you, or that you are the center of my response? Do you think you are bound for hell? What is purgatory? |
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There's another twist to the Jeffrey Dahmer business that the Christians aren't bringing up-- that if Dahmer was absolved of his heinous crimes and allowed into heaven, then he was indeed an innocent who was murdered by the State. Does this mean his executioner, indeed all the People who didn't 'repent' of his murder are going to Hell, too? See, I think this whole thing is about 'street cred' for Christianity. A way of saying 'if He can save even an evil being like Jeffrey Dahmer, think of what He can do for you!" It's just another way to dodge the Problem of Evil argument. -Kerry O. Not at all. As it is written "God is not mocked - as ye reap, so shall ye sow." I don't doubt that Jefferey Dahmer didn't suffer a brutal death at the hands of evil men. What goes around comes around. And Dahmer sowed death and dismemberment and reaped heaven? And a position of esteem for being a martyr for Conversion? You're a believer in in predestination yourself. How do you tolerate the dissonance of morality of an (alleged) truly benevolent, omniscient and omnipotent being, knowing full well the consequences of allowing such to be visited upon the earth, further aid and abet such misery by then absolving those who commit it just for falling down on bent knee and professing Faith? The real mockery here is of Justice. As you said in your answer over last weekend, embryoes spontaneously aborted by Nature to to heaven automatically? The embryonic Dahmer could have been given a free pass into heaven had Nature spontaneously aborted him. If true, why not just solve the problem that way? No one would have been the wiser and some other souls would not have been made to suffer the torment of murder and cannibalism. -Kerry O. Well Kerry - I'm no saint. If I were to point a finger at J.D. for what he did in his life, I'm looking at him poining a finger at me. I'm not his judge. If God wants to forgive him to what he did to others, it only makes me feel a little beeter about his forgiving me for everything I've done. And if you think that God should be aborting all those that have been doing injustices to other people - what is the maximum number allowed? And what are you doing here? Unless you'd like to try and convince me you are blameless in your life for doing an injustice to anyone. If you'd like to take the "logical" approach to this, rather than the emotional. |
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I'd just like to know what makes the Bible "right"... I "left" my bible in church once - doesn't that make it ambidexterous? |
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IMHO Fear, The Bible has been translated many times. The Bible was written by men, even if it was thru God's divine intervention, anything that has the element of human in it, there will be an error, you can bet on it. I don't believe the Bible to be stone cold right or hell hot wrong. It is a guide! It comes down to what one believes. If someone truly believes something then for that person it is THEIR truth..but theirs only. I think some people need something to validate their existance. Some people need to belong to something even if it's to follow a mass of people to jump off a cliff. Religion will always be debated because there is NO tangible proof but God accepts those who doubt (doubting Thomas). So - before I comment on this post. Do you believe in God? The one the bible describes, or some different God? |
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Well let me recap what I've learned from this thread... as I did it to learn a thing or two.
Right wing conservatives suck. People who want to shove their religion down your throat as "the right thing to do" suck. Those who explain things in their terms, even if you don't belive in it, but do it in such a way that shows the love that Jesus actually was talking about in his docterin... are pretty awesome people who I can befriend and learn alot more from than the ones who think "right is right, and I'm right and you are wrong" I'm still Pagan, and that won't change. Anyone who can't accept another's idea as at least a possibility are caught up in their own delusions and insecurities and have no business speaking for an entire religion. Christian/Pagan/Muslum/Jewish/Church of Bob/whatever. so that's where I'm at with it... Hope you all can take something from this discussion and apply it to your own lives....
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Where there seems to be a problem (at least for me) is the fact that a person who has been a practicing Muslim her entire life and never hurt anyone and certainly never murdered anyone would for whatever reason be rejected by god and sent directly to hell while this sociopathic monster who took her life would then be entitled to spend the rest of his days in heaven living in bliss simply because he embraced the Christian doctrine in some respect before death. Why would your religion need to put such conditions on its members? If this young woman was a devout, practicing Muslim for her entire life up until the point it was brutally snuffed out, what would make her abhorrent in the so called loving eyes of your chosen god? You remember him right? The one that went around espousing things of this nature: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." Two things about this post. 1) It is the Muslim woman who rejected the Christian God - not the other way around as you have stated. 2) You quoted the Christian God - not the muslim God. Not to be a stickler about details, but we might as well get them right. Would you like to rethink your post? |
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I was wondering if anyone here actually knows what Muslims beieve. They believe that Jesus was a prophet just not the son of God, so they already accept Jesus and would be accepted into Heaven. 
Muslims do not believe that Jesus died for their sins on the cross, and they do not put their faith in him for salvation. The Jesus they believe in is not the Jesus of the bible, but of the Koran. Two different Jesus'. |
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Okay then. Explain WHY the Muslim (this is a hypothetical) victim in this case would end up being condemned to hell and the murderer would go to heaven based solely on the fact that he "found jesus" in prison or some time before passing. And before you go too far in that direction, we all know how serious the devoutly religious can take the "thou shalt not kill" commandment....Should I start bringing up some talking points in history? Because the Muslim rejected Jesus, and the Murderer accepted him. Well thats a load of crap then, plain and simple. Its exclusionary, divisive, manipulative and nothing I would want to be involved with. But the important thing to keep in mind is that just because you may feel I am bound for hell as a "non-believer" postmortem, doesn't make it automatically so. I on the other hand, am not the type of person that would presume to project my ugly thoughts and feelings of condemnation and eternal purgatory upon you. You asked to explain "Why". Thus - the response. I don't "feel" one way or the other about you. Whereever you may "end-up" has nothing to do with what you might think "I feel", and everything to do with what YOU think. Why are you projecting my response onto yourself. Don't you think I'm capable of responding to your questions without you thinking I've somehow passed judgement on you, or that you are the center of my response? Do you think you are bound for hell? What is purgatory? Well if the Muslim girl chose not to accept the same god that you seem to feel is real on some level then according to you she is bound for hell. If I choose not to accept god in the same manner that you deem necessary for me to find salvation then I can only assume that I am going to hell for this implied "shortcoming". If Joe Smith down the road does not choose to accept Jesus as his savior nor god into his life, then according to you, he is bound for hell also. But the killer in this situation is somehow not going to hell because he chose to accept the same god that you choose to put your own faith in and proclaim as being real and factual. In fact, he may find his way into heaven. I don't ask that you think anything about me one way or another on a personal level as that is completely irrelevant to this discussion. I am however asking you to stand behind your words, quit dancing around them and give a direct answer. Thank you. |
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