R2d2







why would the Torah be weird since it was the FIRST copy before any other translations. the translations should match the Torah. when they don't it's foul play. so instead of seeing if a translation has misinterpretations, just make it easy and go to the "Original" Source!!



it's all the same, but the hebrew dialect can have one symbol meaning up to 23 different things. so English does not understand that Yiddish/Hebrew/Aramaic have multiple word meanings for one word and therefore tends to misinterpret wrong.

good question, but it's not as difficult of a reason as you have made it to be.

notbeold



interesting how literally AZZ backwards your view of what happened is actually factually the opposite of what did take place. plus, i explained this to R2d2 and it is nothing as you joyfully have perceived :)

prime example:



in ALL words and meanings i am copy/pasting of the different words and meanings according to the Hebrew/Yiddish dialect......ENGLISH is trying to match ONE WORD for ALL of it.


Hebrew/Yiddish

Translations of god
Noun + Frequency
אֱלִיל
idol, god, fetish, false god
הקב'ה
god
מָקוֹם
place, room, abode, god, situation, stead
בַּעַל נֶחָמוֹת
god
אֱלוֹהַ
god
אֱלֹקִים
god
בּוֹרֵא
creator, maker, god
אֱלֹהִים
god
שַׁדַי
god
רִבּוֹנוֹ שֶׁל עוֹלָם
god
אֵל
power, god, deity, divinity
ה'
god
בַּעַל גְבוּ



as you see the ONE SINGLE English word GOD has MULTIPLE MEANINGS AND WORDS in the Hebrew/Yiddish dialects.


so if i said GOD to a Hebrew, he would ask for specifics.
but instead of using specifics in translating the Bible, they just use the ONE SINGLE WORD GOD for all those meanings and it totally distorts how we see God in the ENGLISH BIBLE.



but if you read the TORAH, you get the right DIALECT and meaning to a reference of God or the Specifics of God. this gives you then a CLEARER PICTURE of the Hebrew God from how they were explaining Him. and i want THEIR VIEWPOINT, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ACTUALLY KNEW HIM, not the interpreters 4600 years later!!

and if you pay attention to the example with Hebrew Dialect ^ (post before this one), it begins with NOUN + FREQUENCY.

and the most used form of the god term in Hebrew dialect is all about explaining the very details of who the Adversary (the Devil, Lucifer, Satan are not real names)(even Yeshua called the "spiritual enemy leader" the Adversary).

it goes into great detail of the characteristics this angelic being allowed to become of himself after given the power and duties of God in dealing with humanity before the "Creation of Adam."


and then you do find great detail about the Hebrew God, but there is obvious more information about what the enemy is and that is due to understanding so when facing it you see it for what it is.

it's discernment = seeing the intent behind the facade'

Exactly how does any of the above detailed explanation of what things might mean, suggest, let alone 'prove', that there might be some sort of deity, invisible to human beings, yet capable of affecting the lives of believers, although curiously having no effect on the lives of those who do not believe?

even though it really is a valid attempt at an alternative to how life became in existence, it still begins on miraculous terms by the Bang just erupting from nothing, out of nothing, and just it did something in terms of from nothing became something.

and then from that point, we have the process of smaller masses attaching to bigger masses forming Galaxies.

and from that point it came down to like Steven Hawking made notice of about being just MILLIONS closer/further in proportion to the Sun life would not have the possibility to exist.


and you can buy this explanation. but it still begins with thIs [("M-I-R-A-C-U-L-O-U-S")] OCCURRENCE OF HAPPEN-STANCE THAT SHUDDERED THE EMPTINESS OF NOTHING and FROM NOTHING ERUPTED A BLAST WITH AN ECHOING BOOM LIKE NEVER BEFORE REFERRED TO BY THE SUPPOSED GROUP OF MOST INTELLIGENT MINDS COINED AS THE "BIG BANG!!"

you still have to buy a MIRACLE to buy the Big Bang in order to buy the chain of events leading to the kick off of Evolution.

your story of the Miraculous Big Bang to FUTURE CIVILIZATIONS will appear as shaky as presenting this whole thing came from God.

because both God and the Big Bang are TRUTHFULLY MYTHICAL IDEALISMS and NO PROOF OF EITHER!!

what we did have was a Universe in existence before we began observing it. and the Big Bang idea is literally only 100 years old, it is a VERY YOUNG IDEALISM WE ARE STILL GUESSING ABOUT AND HOPING THE BANG IS HOW THIS ALL HAPPENED...

so, God, the Big Bang are both and deservedly so belong in the [we really are not SURE ABOUT EITHER BUT THESE ARE THE 2 BEST OPTIONS OF WHAT WE THINK IN TERMS OF HOW IT ALL BEGAN]...


it's just a guess and you are building your life based upon their GUESS!!

Actually, my thoughts align with current scientific thinking, and not with fairy tales. There is, for me, far greater likelihood that current thinking will throw up new and more exciting ideas as time goes. Meanwhile the fairy tales will just continue.

If the 'proof' for your fairy tales is based on the thought that you find it hard to believe the current science (big bang, inflation, etc) then that's a pretty flimsy sort of 'proof'!

You neatly side step the point and the question

Why aren't you Jewish?

I don't think Jewish people believe in a concept of Satan

I do believe 3 times, I have asked you 3 simple questions
Questions, a 5 year old, might ask
And while you answered
This 5 year old, says your talking baloney
He sees that you in fact, did not answer the question
You just seemed like, you wished it to appear, that you answered the question.


If I ask you, if you want a cheese or a jam sandwich
Then a 1000 word answer involving Stephen Hawking, and mentioning the words jam and cheese, does not really answer the question
And seeks to befuddle, a simple question
Making 1, all the less trusting of you

It ain't rocket science

MK





i am appalled at the many times you telling me how intelligent you are by following science and not being duped like those believing in God.

the BIG BANG is CURRENT SCIENCE...

your post in first sentence claims to align with current science.

the Big Bang is CURRENT SCIENCE and the points i made are CURRENT SCIENCE and you had no response to literal current sciece but to make fun of those accepting God?

There are many words that equal to the term of STUPIDITY...and i am confident that at times...i believe i might know someone who fills every meaning to that word!!

R2d2, i am genetically of Jewish heritage.

but i refuse to think on those terms because that separates by according to race/creed.

and much of why i follow Yeshua unlike the majority of Jews..

First...One God.
Why would one God. A Supreme being within every person need anything translated?
Do you think if God were talking it would be crystal clear no matter who He talks to?
So, the misinterpretation argument falls flat.

Now, since we are referring to a God which is the supreme being in charge of everything wouldn't His works be understood by everything in existence?
Free will not withstanding the positive influence such divine manifestations would be on the way everything able to comprehend anything would no doubt see.
Yet, doubt exists?
Why would doubt exist?
Are humans able to understand the science behind splitting an atom but unable to understand divine influence?
When does that make sense?

Last, and this goes in alignment with my understanding of God...
The Big Bang is a result, not the source.
The Big Bang came after the change that initiated it.
Cause and effect, as I have been saying everything is from the start.
No matter how far back science looks, we can't see the time before anything existed in this Universe.
EVERYTHING, we can detect is a result of something happening before it.
Let there be light is a result, not a source.

No science supports it / No religion identifies it but the Big Bang and Let There Be Light are results of the condition which initiated it.
I say it was a change of state from absolute zero to heat.
However, Identifying the causal effect is not the source of God.
To me, God is the initiator. Nothing more.
The Unknown force which caused the first vibration in a frozen substrate.
Everything, EVERYTHING else is the cause and effect which happened after that point.

Which means there is no divine purpose to the Universe.
There is no divine purpose to the formation of life.
Nothing governs the passage of interactions which happen throughout the Universe in a chaos of random connections.

Plus, while you might have issue with this, reality has no issue because reality just is.

when we first back n forth responded to one another, MK, i made an assessment of what i felt medically best described you.

i most definitely stand on that original discerned hint now more than ever...some things...you just aren't literally getting at all (and it has nothing to do with God one way or another)...

the people were literally one group when God revealed Himself initially. but it remained in the core as the people grew and then migrated.

not sure how you think the Hebrew People were just singled out.

it was just one massive group of people mesopotamians and sort all around the muslim-egypt-israel areas of today.

On a separate note...Please don't dis Dr Seuss.
Theodor Seuss Geisel was an American children's author, political cartoonist, illustrator, poet, animator, screenwriter, and filmmaker.
He was a brilliant thinker.
In Horton Hears A Who, Dr Seuss postulated that worlds exist within worlds.
The same idea was portrayed at the end of Men In Black 1 (1997).
A galaxy might be a single marble being played with by some 'other' larger being.
Both examples are concepts of relativity.

Now, to take this same concept and explore it...

Perhaps some 'other' being has a chamber filled with absolute zero matter particles.
They shoot a laser (or whatever) at random particles which causes a change of state from absolute zero (frozen) to heat (movement) which initiates a chain reaction within that area of absolute zero.
That change then expands in a sphere like an explosion or Big Bang causing Light.
But...Lets say they do this over and over again with other frozen particles in this chamber.
The result is a multitude of spheres expanding thru random internal reaction.
But the expanding spheres are tiny, and they are fast relative to the initiators. Entire Universes initiate, expand and dissipate in a few microseconds relative to the observers.

Then, imagine the observers are within an expanding sphere initiated by yet other observers on a different relative scale to them.
And so on and on and on.

The God I choose to call God is the top observer in this chain of results.
We are 'HERE' as Dr Seuss so elegantly put it but 'where' is relative to the observer.
So, please don't dis Dr Seuss.
A brilliant mind perhaps only children can appreciate.

Back in the 80s I was deployed to Lebanon.
I saw Syria.
I walked on the 'Road to Damascus'.
I saw the people native to that area.
The place was blown apart.
They were trying to kill each other.
I sat on the beach and looked out over the Med and imagined the people I read about seeing that very same sight.
At that time, it was wondrous.
However...
Nothing was divine.
I felt no special divine essence in my soul.
Frankly, I felt sick and repulsed.
But, yes, it was their war and things go to Hell in war.

Thing is, when people in the states would ask if being in Lebanon was a mystical experience, I wanted to say yes but I couldn't.
Reality made my Bible a liar.
I felt nothing even though I may have stood where Jesus did.
Don't you think I should have felt Something?
Gotta remember, at that time in my life I was religious.
I wanted my faith confirmed yet the only thing I experienced was a twisted, hate-filled reality.
Frankly, I don't EVER want to go back.

Now thru all this reality, my faith kept me believing my religion for decades after.
The reality I experienced was easily dismissed by my delusion as insisted on by the people I attributed with the real knowledge.
It did however, nag at me, causing stress in my faith and in turn, stress in my life.

Lebanon did not cause me to lose faith.
Reality caused me to lose faith.
Lebanon merely added to my wisdom about reality and how reality differs from delusion.
My faith loss came only after many such understanding was gained.

Some of you gain faith in your wisdom.
If you are content and stress-free, no worries.
However, when you start finding inconsistencies between your religion and the experiences you gain and it is giving you stress.
Reevaluate and apply the wisdom gained by the reality you experience.
It lifts stress and keeps it away.

This is because reality doesn't care which delusion you have it is just reality. It makes no promises, offers no rewards or punishments, does not judge you, tell you about sins or demand prayers or devotion.
Its reality whether you believe it or not.
But when you accept reality as it actually is, the stress goes away and functioning becomes easier.

I don't worry about death because I don't worry about living forever.
I don't ask a delusion to fulfill my desires because I know if I want to make my dreams come true, I have to MAKE them.
I need no forgiveness for existing.
I need no forgiveness for being an animal.
While I live within society, I do not allow society to dictate my quality of life.

I don't think he was dissing Dr Seuss

The point is, your always saying, look to the Torah, for the correct translation, etc.

But the Torah is Jewish
They don't believe in the concept of Satan or the resurrection
So it's like you can't have your cake, and eat it
Well both the Torah and Koran mention Jesus, so that's proof of Jesus, plus A, B and C
But it's not. To some extent, it may prove a person called Jesus existed
But seen as neither Muslims or Jews, believe in the resurrection, or that he was the son of god, it doesn't really prove anything
2 fundamental things, in Christianity, are Satan and the resurrection
So any scource you choose to prove, can also be used to disprove
And it seems nutty, god appeared, to a Jew, gave him the Torah / bible etc, and then said, don't be Jewish anymore

And isn't it a tad unbelievable god just appeared to a few people, and said, right, your my chosen people, not the others, you lot

Oh, we are the chosen people, do as we instruct, and we might share with you the knowledge that the supreme being has entrusted us with

No room for a con job there, at all

I mean which is more likely, A) they invented this .. Or B) God really did speak to them, and say, you lot are my favourite

I'm an open minded person, and I like to ask questions, and to try to understand things

This is 1 of the main reasons I don't like religion
Its like asking, where's my cheque
And being told, have faith, it's in the post
And only being told that, after a few hours, and 10000 other words
I instinctively, don't believe it

My point was that many works of fiction contain truths.
That truth does not then make them non-fiction.

I wanted to use Spike Milligan as an example, but americans wouldn't know who I'm talking about.
Spike's war stories are hilarious, and often factual, but not to be taken as historical fact.

No need to be appalled, I have never claimed that I am any more intelligent than an average person! However, there is no scientist I have ever read about who spouts any of the total rubbish that you continually inflict upon us. THey all point to proper research.

Your own insecurity in your beliefs shows every time you call other posters rude names.



Thank you doctor. if you were not so insecure, I would ask you what pills I can take to help me recover!

Another sign of your insecurity to say that anyone who does not share your delusions must be medically unfit.

Fact is, I am completely certain that science is as I have described it, as indeed have others in this thread. Fact is that you have an unproven belief in some sort of deity but you seem unable to answer the specific questions asked by others without going into long and detailed verbiose statements that actually do not address the question being asked.

Sounds to me like you are just quoting from various books you have read but as others have said to quote from a book that says something meaningful to you is very different from being able to provide proof.

I have several times asked which of the various religions on offer you subscribe to, but you have never bothered to answer that. All you do is 'explain' why they are all 'wrong' because they have different opinions to yours. I have also asked for a reference to any proper peer-reviewed scientific journal that contains research into the subjects that you appear to know so much about, but again no answer, just the usual long-winded stuff that quite honestly I cannot understand.

We all know the fairy tales you believe in and we all know I think you are deluded. To take this discussion I am waiting for your references to proper research. Otherwise we will just go round in circles saying, "I'm right and you're wrong!"

Let's have some clear references please, explained in simple terms.

Thank you.