At last it seems we are getting some answers.

First you believe that someone a couple of thousand years ago was crucified. As were many others at that time, since it was the standard method of punishment. They would chop your hand off if you stole a sheep!

Second you believe that this particular person somehow 'rose again from the dead' as it says in various books, mostly written by ancient greek historians (the other books I guess are wrong).

Next, you believe in the achievements of science, except those that don't match with your own ideas, namely the evolution concept. If we didn't evolve, where did we come from? Ah, I get it, you have a belief similar to that of the JWs who think the earth was made about six thousand years ago, following a biblical calculation. You've said before you believe that calculation to be in error, so although your belief is similar, you would disagree with the six thousand years old figure.

The JWs have an answer for everything. If you ask them about fossils they will tell you that god put the fossils in the ground to be there for us. Can't imagine why she would do that, but of course they don't know 'why' she did that. Why would god want to confuse us into thinking that the fossils are proof that the age of the earth is greater than their figure of six thousand years? They can't answer that.

Sounds like your reasoning is similar. Like them, you have a belief that starts off by saying, "This is what I believe" and then where the scientific observations of facts don't agree with your stated belief, you bend them into something that will fit. The JWs do the same thing! Why do that? Why not accept that your starting point is quite simply wrong? Why not revise your theory to match the known facts? Your continual struggle to make the point, complete with the stupid use of boldface, capitals and italics is so unnecessary! In the early days of computing, the use of capitals was considered to be shouting. Are you shouting at other contributors? Does that make your point clearer? It's just annoying!

The very worst scientists are those who have a theory and then conveniently ignore other observations that might suggest their ideas are wrong, while making much of those theories that might suggest their theory is right. As I've said before, the best scientists try as hard as they can to disprove their theories. Only when they fail to do that will they consider that maybe, just maybe, their theory might be right.

I must check out the beliefs of those scientists who believe in god. Somehow I think they will also believe in evolution - but I'll get back to this thread with some quotes if I can find any. Not sure how you will handle believers who accept evolution. It is quite possible to believe in god while accepting the theory of evolution. Yes, there are gaps in our knowledge, but have you noticed how every few years another fossil is discovered that closes one of those gaps? Soon the theory will be complete, but I guess some people still will not accept it.

Evolution is accepted by everyone I know and have ever known since school days. That is how we are here. Even the Catholic school I attended taught evolution and that was in the 1960s before many of those gaps had been filled. The only people I have ever found who not accept evolution is those JWs, again. So I wonder if you feel that god put human people on this planet and despite the well known bad effects of inter-breeding, expected us humans to breed among ourselves until we reached the point today when there are about nine billion of us on this planet.

I asky myself, why choose a 'belief' that in some ways flys in the face of known facts? What is the point of that? And why go into all that detailed argument about which writings in which books are the 'true' ones and which are (for some reason) 'false' writings? I suppose to back up your belief theory. After all, if one says X and another says Y then you will pick the one that confirms your belief and then try to convince people about thr rightness of one book, or translation, and the implied 'wrongness' of another.

Why the continued need to provide 'testimony'? If what you believe in was agreed by all, there would be no need to do that. I guess you know that most people disagree with you, so you provide all these stories about your past as your 'testimony'. Curiously, nothing like that has ever happened to me. I don't need any testimony to try to prove something I believe in that others might not believe in. It is quite unnecessary!

I don't disbelieve that there have been several charismatic leaders of people in human history, including one who might have been crucified, as many others were at that time. Sounds barbaric to us these days, but there are still countries where you can be strapped into a chair and deliberately killed by poison or electricity. We still do the same thing, but just do it in a more modern way.

As a humanist, I am appalled that in this 21st century some people on this planet still deliberately take the lives of others. I am a pacifist and would never do such a thing, it is horrendous. Yet Christians sometimes wear a cross around their necks to remind them that their leader was put to death. Many women wear a cross as jewellery, perhaps forgetting what it means to their religion. Others believe that the bread and wine offered in their services become the actual body and blood of the man who was crucified! Yes, that's true, I was brought up a Catholic and know all about what those poor misguided people are told to believe. I feel sorry for them.

For me, belief comes from within. It is not something you can be told to do by someone else. It 'just is'. Coming from within, I try to treat others as I would like them to treat me. Fortunately the death penalty is banned in my country, the UK. If not I'm sure I would be among those petitioning those in power to ban it.

I find that JWs and others with similar beliefs are deluded into believing in some magic being. If god is all powerful (as I was taught at school) is it possible for her to make a rock so heavy that she can't lift it? That is one of many conundrums which of course can't be answered, suggesting to me that it isn't actually possible for any being to be all powerful. Does it matter? Is it important that your god is all powerful? Is it important that your god loves every single human, regardless of whether we love her and 'obey' her in return? It is anathema to me to be told that I have to obey some rules, made up by men, in the name of some imaginary being! No thank you, sir, I follow my own internal moral guide. Nothing to do with being a humanist, I only every heard of humanists a few years ago and suddenly realised that I am one, and have been for a long time!

I don't need any 'testimony' and frankly have no idea how the amzing things that happened to you could have happened. Others have put forward possibilities which of course you have denied. It doesn't matter to me what happened. All I know is what you believe happened. I suspect the real truth was quite different to what you believe. No need to argue the point because your belief is solid and you're not open to other explanations. If any of those things happened to me, I would be looking for explanations that most certainly do not include some imaginary being. That's a getout for you because you don't want to consider the truth of what actually did happen in reality. You pass the buck if you don't understand something and just blame it on god. A scientist will puzzle over the various possibilities and if nothing fits will say that the happening is beyond our current knowledge to explain. One day, we will have the answer. But likely long after I'm gone, sad to say. Seems you can't accept that, everything has to be explained today and god is a pretty good scapegoat, 'cos she can't answer your claims!

mk,


when i die, i will definitely be buried and be no more on this earth.

does not mean i am no longer connected to the Universe, just i am no longer among the physically living.

if that is it then that is it, oh well!!

but if there happens to be more, and i happened to live like there is more, IF IT DOES HAPPEN when i die, then what's the harm?

and if i die and just become bacteria after living like there is a God, what's the harm?

and btw, it's not evolution, it's the mathematics that factually proves evolution is incorrect!!

Agreed. When I die all that will be left of me is the memories of family and friends. Same for you and other other creatures on this planet. There's no harm in misguided belief, it is just such a waste of time and effort!

I've not yet seen any mathematical proof that evolution is 'wrong' the only people I've met who make that claim are the JWs who knock at my door with their copy of 'The Watchtower'. Their own 'scientists' all agree that evolution is wrong - because their bible tells them it is wrong! What a daft reason for a 'belief'!!!

A belief is not what someone else tells you, it comes from within and is probably the summation of all the things you've heard, from family and friends, on the radio, in the pub, and anywhere else. Strange that my family are/were all Christians and my school was Catholic. None of that had any influence on my beliefs. I guess I worked it out for myself.

Yes. Everything in me tells me there is a God.

that mumbo jumbo don't work...either way it's still the gospel of iam resurrected and shouldn't stop you from answering a relevant question which applies to your situation ..if you can not explain it ...then your entire story is debunked

it's these Perry Mason moments that makes it all worthwhile ... funches 3;16

THE QUESTION:
explain why the devil and his legion wouldn't know all of your names

The Big Bang theory is treated as though it's an unassailable scientific truth: 13.8 billion years ago, the Universe as we know it emerged from a hot, dense state known as the Big Bang. While there were a number of serious alternatives considered for decades, throughout the 20th century, a scientific consensus emerged more than 50 years ago with the discovery of the Cosmic Microwave Background. Despite many attempts to revive a variety of the discredited ideas, as well as attempts to formulate new possibilities, all have fallen away under the burden of the full suite of astronomical data. The Big Bang reigns supreme as the only valid theory of our cosmic origins.

Scientists don't believe in the Big Bang; they conclude it based on the full suite of observations. The last adherents to the ancient, discredited alternatives are at last dying away. The Big Bang is no longer a revolutionary endpoint of the scientific enterprise; it's the solid foundation we build upon. Its predictive successes have been overwhelming, and no alternative has yet stepped up to the challenge of matching its scientific accuracy in describing the Universe.


source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2018/09/04/this-is-why-there-are-no-alternatives-to-the-big-bang/

Is there any evidence to prove creationism is wrong? There are a number of problems with answering this question. Firstly, when making any statement it is important to acknowledge what is known as the burden of proof. It is the responsibility of the person making such a statement to prove that it is true to begin with before a sensible counter argument can be made. Since there is no evidence (experimental, observational or otherwise) for creationism, the burden lies with those who believe this to be true to prove it is so. If we do not follow this general rule (most people do this without even realising in day to day life) you imply that the question or statement is always correct to begin with. Without wanting to trivialise the problem but taking this to an extreme example, if I state that the centre of the Sun if filled with strawberry jelly you would not believe me and would expect me to provide you with evidence. This is acceptable as I bear the burden of proof; however, if we extend the creationism argument that science must prove it is not true, it is now your responsibility to prove that the strawberry jelly does not exist. This is clearly not a sensible way of working and creationism (or religion is general) is one of the very few areas in the modern world that people insist the burden of proof lies with the person answering the question.

Even putting this aside, there is very strong evidence for the theory of evolution with which nearly all of the scientific community agrees upon. With the advances in areas of science such a genetics it is almost impossible, even without the burden of proof, to suggest that humans were created as we are today without simply ignoring all of the scientific evidence to support it.

source: http://www.askanastronomer.co.uk/thebigbangandcreationism.php

i am not pretending to konw where the JW's are getting their information either.

but as for myself, i look into all of pathways and directions Biologist have tried to connect the dots. and i look how Biology with this information attempts to mesh that with Chemistry and you can see the obvious problems awaiting.

every avenue we have has literally collapsed, but Evolution, due to the Unknown Circumstances behind the "what if's" concerning how the Universe began, is still our best viable guess because it has Accident written all over it!!

as superior intelligent a conglomerate group of minds can become in the process of finding a solution, it still is only a Guess!!

and if we die and that is it, then it was obviously still only a Guess.

however, if we die and there is an afterlife, then it was a very wrongful and a humanity at all Costs Guess!!

But can you tell me something, please? What exactly is this God you believe in? Some sort of plasma, floating in space? Another human being, on this planet - or on another planet? Nobody seems capable of answering that question, and yet believers don't seem to think it matters! Believers are full of what God will do, does do, doesn't do, won't do, and more. But nowhere can I find a simple explanation of what God actually IS!

It's difficult to have a discussion about something that nobody can define!

but you aren't that important i have the need to entertain.

i don't care if you accept my answers, i only find it amusing you keep seeking for material to have an answer for that did not even exist in 1977.

True and true. You said it. You were made for better things than sucking up to me, brother. If you live to seek pity, terrible things will happen to you. You were made for a greater purpose worth living for, and only you need to know what that is.

i will define God for yo MK.

but i am also doing farm work and will answer later.

but i will be as clear and conclusive of how i see God from every aspect but in simple easy explanations that will make sense for you to understand my meaning.

I have never been curious to nor needed to define God. He is that he is. He can be, for his creation, viewed as whatever he decides from moment to moment and individual to individual.


The creation could never fully have the perspective of the creator enough to define their boundaries for them. God is the divine intelligence that put together all of what is natural and all the ways those things work in congruence to continue their own existence.

He existed before our languages that we use to try to define 'what' he is in a physical sense, except for GOD.

Most closely to our limited mortal understanding, I would personally describe him as spirit that can exist in any physical form.

MK .... Many people are seriously indoctrinated and will never get out. Some of them posting here are that way. They are unable to use critical thinking and need to follow and do what they are told to do.

It's sad but true. They need to follow the rules of an imaginary deity. They believe what's written in the bible no matter how terrible it may be. They make excuses for the killing and slavery and claim it's interpreted all wrong. And they even believe there's some reward after they die.

Even though it all sounds ridiculous, they still believe.

Thank you both. The best answer seems to be a spirit that can exist in any form.

But I still have difficulty in understanding how anyone can have such a strong faith and belief in something so vague.

As you say, JBH, some people writing to this thread could use critical thinking - but most likely won't bother!

getting a Perry Mason moment by debunking "the gospel of iam resurrected" was entertaining enough


what answers ...you give fake answers for biblical things that happen 3,000 years ago that you had nothing to do with but yet can't answers simple questions about supposedly biblical things that happen to you both personally and recently


are you saying that the devil didn't exist in 1977? ....you said since the trucker knew all your names therefore it had to be God, but yet you can't explain why the devil couldn't also know your names

THE DEVIL AND UNCLE ARLO
remember Uncle Arlo make a contact with the devil and died still under that contact ...so uncle arlo could have told the devil your names ...you guys were lost and stranded so it could have been the devil that sent a trucker to help and now you all could own the devil a favor ...and that is why your Father should have asked the trucker questions before stuffing all of you into that semi

THE QUESTION
how could 7 people fit into a semi ..it must have been like the Tardis in Dr. Who ... little on the outside but room for a warehouse on the inside



cool Narlycarnk..do you also read Tarot Cards? ..also would you happen to know what the winning lottery numbers are for today

Mk,

my idealism of God is simple:

in the Category of ...


...


SCIENTIST
MATHEMATICIAN
ENGINEER
PHILOSOPHER
TEACHER
DREAMER
CONSTRUCTOR
DESIGNER
CREATOR
BUILDER
ADVENTURER
SUPPLIER OF NEEDS
MIRACLE
THE ABSOLUTE UNKNOWN AND UNEXPLAINABLE
^
God is not just ALL of these, but the Greatest of them All!!

Agreed, they do, and is undoubtedly sad since the mistranslation of the original they are reading, explains God in a completely different light. A God who told David, I do not want Sacrifice nor Sin Offering. and the stubborn Jews are still sacrificing...


example, because their Bible is written in English, they believe the Jews from Mesopotamia (natural Aramaic speaking) were speaking in English 2,000 years ago in Jerusalem, Rome, Greece everywhere hahahahahaha

i have so much Faith in God, the moment i just get out of bed to pizz, the devil begins shaking because he knows all i do is bring God upon him!!

the devil is not running to a fire he knows he will get burnt!!

darkness CANNOT exist in the light.

ever walk into a complete dark room and the moment you flip the light switch to on, the darkness no longer could be seen because the light overpowers it?

that is the very same concept between the darkness of evil and light of God!!

To me, I think people often consider vague and hard to describe as interchangeable.

Sexuality is a vague concept, but it does not mean it is not a description of a real thing.

To me, God is not vague.

To me, it is critical thinking to understand we are not cosmic coincidences and accidents but have an intelligent design instead.

I think many believe that such faith is about a lack of intelligence or 'critical thinking' but there are many scientists who also believe in intelligent design, so it is much more than that.

To me, the fact that we dont know everything about everything is only further proof of our mortal limits. To others, our mortal limits are validation to a tunnel vision where all that can be real is what we can clearly understand, define, or otherwise put into a neat categorized box.


As for rules, man has rules. I think it is logical to expect a creator also would have rules for its creation.

Everything man manufactures has some type of blue print or manual to define its purpose, and how it is to be used and maintained.

It is logical to me that an intelligent creator would have the same type of reference for us.