Answer my question and I'll answer yours: How many items make a long list in your mind?

I know I said I have a long list, but you said you don't have a long list. So I want to know what you consider a long list.

Spider, it doesn't matter what I think a long list is. You said you had a long list. Again, that's what I was referencing. If you want to refuse to talk about the list you mentioned, that's your choice. No worries.

Mongoose rarely eat snakes. Did you know that? It's true, they rarely eat snakes. But they love to kill them, they seek them out. Hungry or not. The animals kingdom is strange and wonderful.

Some people believe that their dogs or horses or other pets love them. If an animal can feel love, why couldn't it feel hate?

It absolutely does matter! You said you don't have a long list of things you hate, so I'm just asking, how many items are on a long list to you? 10? 20? 30? Just throw a number out there.

I don't have a set number.

Hate and fear are closely related. Mongoose kill cobras and other snakes because those snakes eat their young. You can probably interpret that as hate. I think they kill snakes when they encounter them, but I don't think they "hunt them out." They kill them so they can feel safe when raising their young.

Lions "hate" hyenas in the same way. They compete for food and they kill each other's young. Hyenas will kill young cubs and they will gang up and kill lionesses. The male lion will kill hyenas when he sees them because he is the protector of the pride. He is said to "hate" them.

animals are instinctual, they live in the moment, they don't over think and complicate everything the way we do

So true. They do what needs to be done.

So when I say "large", I could actually be thinking of a number less than when you say "large", right? So you could hate more things than I do, right?

Again, I was referring to your own words. You're the only one who knows how long the list is you're talking about. I cannot read your mind.

Then why did you assume I was so full of hate? I could have meant 10 things for all you know.

Ok, you're not full of hate. You're all sunshine, daisies and rainbows!

OH MY GOD YOU ARE SO INTO YOURSELF!

I have witnessed animals express hatred. You are going to call the results of several noteworthy animal behaviorists liars suddenly? I had an African gray parrot tell me to "Fuque Off" and he meant it! That bird hated me and bit me more than once. I have seen a dog that absolutely hated rats. It would go nuts and pursue them for hours! When he caught them they died horribly. The dog tore them to pieces then ate them. I have seen cats express hatred. I also have seen Chimpanzees in a zoo express disdain for people. They are accurate when they throw shitte!

Heck, I knew a horse up North that if it didn't like you would take every opportunity to bite or kick the person they didn't like and that horse could tell the difference. I always had a treat for it so it liked me. After a week of shaking crab apples out of a near by tree for it the horse would see me coming and be the first waiting for me. But there were a few people scared as hell of that animal.

God you act like animals can't think!



So when a zoo elephant goes off and kills people it is just misunderstood? This is just a hunch but when you are surrounded by Lilliputians and all they do is push you around and keep you from the Males/ Females and you want to socialize and have sex with your own kind I bet they get mad and eventually brew hatred. Just because they can't talk they can do some surprisingly intelligent things. Animals can sure show fear! But they can show a lot more than that. Can you honestly call affection conditioning and not thinking? How is it people can have pet Cougars (the real ones) and the animals are loving and affectionate while in nature they are loners? The fact is that their territories overlap and they do socialize with other mountain lions. We just never see it when they do.

HECK, right now in Australia there is a zoo with a female Salt Water Crocodile that was raised by a biologist. The 20 foot long female salty actually shows remarkably gentle behavior with this man but with anyone else they are on the menu. This animal has actually fought with other salt water crocodiles in its pen including the big male protecting this man from them. He was recently on TV in the pen lying on the ground right in front of it. The biologist admits their relationship is unique but has shown even these animals capable of some remarkable intelligence. If it didn't like this man it would eat him and many people who have raised alligators and crocodiles know that usually they will grow into their nature but half the time they get one that acts more like a pet than a gator. Another example of this is a Guatemalan man who found an American Crocodile shot and left for dead. it was on death's door when he found it. He rehabilitated it and when he went to release it back to the wild it followed him home. It is full grown and the two go swimming together. The two are best friends. Mind you this was a full grown WILD adult this man rehabilitated! Looks like the animal made a choice to me!

And for a last example, a friend of mine had a horse that would go nuts and stomp out ANY snake it seen. We are talking irrational go ballistic stompathon! I had never personally seen the animal do it but several friends of mine had. Even a Garter Snake showing its face anywhere near that horse was a death sentence for the snake.

Oh. and there is this...

Think a mule can't express hatred? Check this article out!

http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/mulelion.asp

AndyBgood,

Wonderful stories Andy! I agree that animals certainly can and do feel emotions and have personalities.

Bird like parrots think of their owners as their mates sometimes. My niece had a small parrot that a friend of hers gave her. The parrot eventually escaped and found its way home to its previous owner. They really get attached to their human owners.

Above is a picture of "Christian" hugging his former owners. They raised him until he was too big in live in their house, so they paid to send him to Africa where he could be wild. Years later they came to visit and he hugged both of them and introduced them to his wild wife. Even though her natural instinct would have been to kill them both for food, she is smart enough to realize that her mate wouldn't let her hurt them.

Christian the lion in England and Africa

Now explain to me how "animals are instinctual, they live in the moment, they don't over think and complicate everything the way we do "

So if animals can think and communicate with one another, love their former owners, why couldn't they feel hate?

That animal took one look at them when they visited and he came running. The female that followed him was wild and also did not do a thing to the two men when she could have. Even the guide was stunned to see the female sniff them men and rub on them.

Yeh, I watched that show on television. It was really awesome.

Hurray for people acknowledging the (relative) complexity of thoughts and feelings of some non-human animals!