I believe animals can feel love but not hate. That's so because the cerebral cortex is very undeveloped in animals. Cerebral cortex is responsible for planning, for the future. You don't need to have a sense of the future to love, it can be done in the present. To hate, you need to be able to plan for the future, if you take my own definition of "hate" that is somewhat different from the dictionary definition.

And in the present, yes, animals can hate, if you take the dictionary definition. Dogs are capable of hatred. They can single a person out in the community and bark at and attack him each time, whether it's a human or a bear or a horse.

Dogs don't plan, but they have a memory. Our own memory, serving us humans, is heavily involved in our planning; for dogs, their memory serves them right not so much for planning. Whether they daydream of biting the mailman when he is not there, I don't know. But do dogs have a sense of time? I know pigs are keen to know when the next feeding comes, if it's regular; do dogs get restless at around the time the Master is supposed to come home?

If the answer is "yes", then dogs are capable of expecting events in the future. The timing of when to expect it is instinctual; but the anticipation, if it is there, is not instinctual. If love, or joy of seeing a loved one, is anticipated by a dog; then still, perhaps hate is not, if the reward for joy of meeting a loved one is much higher for the dog than the reward of the joy of meeting a hated one. But if the joys are the same, or near the same, and the dog can anticipate one, then it must be true that the dog can anticipate the other, too.

BTW, the dog can hear the car from blocks away, or the tram or the smell of the caravan. So those animal observers of you out there here, please report a truly anticipatory response by your dog, please, if you have witnessed it over a period of time.

You know, spider, you are risking my mother-in-law (ex) suing you for putting her picture on the Internet, without her prior consent.

Unless you DO have her consent.

Whose wife is it in the picture, with the long hair? The former owner's or the lion's?

I mean he could have taken a human wife. Why not? Parrots foook or get foooked by, their owners, so do cats, dogs, donkeys, grizzly bears, elephants, sheep, goats and camels; dung beetles, and tape worms, too. Some tape worms have been known to literally move in and live in the south end of their gay lovers.

Some octopeds make good lovers, too. For instance, based on what I've been seeing on these forums, I suspect that Spidercom and Singmesweet woman will rent a room any time very soon.

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Congratualations to the poster (andybegood?) who proved me wrong and said and proved with stories of liers and loud, obnoxious laughers that animals are capable of pure, unadulterated and vile hate.

It destroyed my rosy and sentimentally romantic view of the Animal kingdom. This is the promise of science.

.Wux asked: But do dogs have a sense of time?

I think they do. I had a dog that would escape the yard after I went to work and play with the children across the street all day until it was time for me to come home and then he would sneak back into the yard and be waiting for me on the porch when I got home. I did not know this until my neighbor told me about it.

I had another dog that waited (planned?) for hours in the morning waiting for that mail man to turn down her street so she could chase him. She was a very friendly dog, but for some reason she just had to chase the mail truck.

Typical chick dog... chasing the male truck. Female Volkswagen Rabbits and Pink Camaros left her cold.

I had a gay female dog who liked to have walkies int he area of my town (Toronto) where the she-males in drag sold their bodies for used lottery tickets. My dog would sniff their legs, wag her tail and beg, and she was liked by all of them.

Due to Bessy's begging, we went home with a pitcherful of used lottery tickets.

This is how the economy works: You spend a little, you earn a little, you spend a little, you earn a little.

Hey, I actually thought of something I DO hate ... Windows OS.

What the FUQUE IS THIS? A RESPONSE OR A BERATING? And who would even try to put it to a parrot? That is the same as trying to stick it in a sock only the sock doesn't scream in pain!

Dude, are you having a bad day or what?

And to think of all the Vitriol you spew in the political forums about Republicans and Conservatives. If I didn't know any better this is more than concordant opposition. YOU HATE THEM, DON'T YOU? Why not admit that and get on with your day?

Sorry, dude. Did not mean to upset you. I was not berating you. I was simply trying to say that I was forced to change my opinion from "animals are not able to feel hatred" to "yes, animals ARE able to feel hatred". Your posts have helped me understand this, and I was trying to simply show that I listen to reason and to explanations, and here I was undoubtedly proven wrong on my original opinion, and I therefore changed my opinion accordingly. That's all I was trying to say, and I said it in a humorous way, at least in a way that I found humorous.

My humour comes out many times as a hyperbole. I did not mean to upset you. You convinced me I was wrong, and I stated that in that, to me, humorous post.

Relax. It was an repsonse, not a berating. But I see how you could have seen it that way. Unfortunately I can't cater to the sensibilities of all people on these forums at the same time each time, so please forgive me, but I say things my way now and in the future, as I also have in the past.

That was some ODD hyperbole but I wasn't offended. Just confused. Still, I get some sick images in my head now of an overstuffed parrot on a stick if you get my drift!

Yes, most definitely. I don't know how well they are at being aware of, or keeping track of time - but they are at least excellent at noticing and remember cues for events about to occur.



I have a roommate who keeps some regular work hours. We have people coming and going from our house throughout the day. There are many hours of the day where my roommate is guaranteed to not be home, and certain where she is likely to be entering the house.

When people arrive at the house during the low probably times, the dog does not respond at all.

During the high probability times, the dog reacts differently - whether or not the arrival is my roommate. The dog clearly anticipates my roommate during those 'likely to come home' times, and is often wrong.

The smell of the vegetation is different at different times of the day - even I could guess the time of day based purely on the smell of vegetation and temperature of the air. So many the dog doesn't track the passage of time, but only make associations with the smell and temperature. Also, the dog may be reading my body language. Whether I am working, or wanting to socialize, I respond very differently to my own anticipation of the arrival of different roommates, in ways I'm sure the dog can detect.

Hurray!

"Plan" could mean different things to different people, but a limited degree of prediction and planning for predicted events would likely present an evolutionary advantage to most animals.

I think many animals are capable of a limited degree of planning.

Oh, I simply cannot resist this... if you use pc hardware, and don't like windows, you should absolutely try a linux live cd. Free, convenient, no risk, and some of them are very easy.

Andy, I think Wux is often hilarious, and it took me some time to sort out his apparent mingling of completely serious statements with bizarre presumably-not-serious and often funny statements. Sometimes I'm still not sure where he is coming from, but I usually think he's mostly interested in amusing himself. I've never thought he intended to gratuitously hurt or insult others.