The drift in these posts seems, more often than not, to drift into
"BUT". When one exchanges a view, we can
acknowledge it,
repeat it if necesary,
accept it within the framework of "thier" beliefs
ask questions (as in "I belive this, how does that fit with your
beliefs")

Instead I see repeated attempts to get our point accross, repeated
attempts to 'defend' our stand. It's ok to ask "how did you come by
that information" or "if common belief is ... why do you choose ;;;".

Instead It seems that people are either attempting to CHANGE one's
opinions or beliefs, or are personally offended and feel defensive of
their stance.

So are we discussing with the idea of gaining knowledge, accepting new
ideas, Broadening our knowledge through other peoples views,figureing or
are we trying to CHANGE or bend others into what we believe is right?

I liken these discussions to the 'Join the dots" game we played as
kids...(or still do).

For me...there is somewhere under all those dots, a picture waiting to
emerge....except this picture doesn't have obvious numbers to follow.

So I join the dots and get a camel, you join the dots and get an
elephant...and so on and so forth.

my camel is mine...your elephant is yours..

No, I'm not trying to change what anyone believes. I don't think it's
worth my time or energy to do that.

But I really do think a lot of these type discussions are senseless
because of that. No one is going to convince me God doesn't exist and I
doubt anything I could say would convince someone who is hell bent on
not believing in Him that He does.

Where else, then, can these discussions go, but round and round in
circles?

I'm with u MRS. RED
I love to learn more, and the better teachers are those who think
different than me

well, i for one just type for the halibut, but sometimes i am serious.
where is the law that says we have to be anything. some young ones get
on this site and they want to talk trash. it is their right to freedom
of speech. some are political. some are about sex. some are about
serious conversations. some are hunting. some are lonely. some are
bored. some have some really good things to say. some just comment. some
are gross..some are trying to get their point across or defend their
stand......my favorite topic was the evolutionists versus the
creationists, and ya know, when i typed, GO MONKEYS....i felt really
good. i was able to express myself, and i am not sure what the monkeys
or the creationists thought, but i was allowed to say my piece. Did I
change any minds? Nope. End of story.

I am trying to change. I want to become more open minded to new ideas,
more assertive to push back against obnoxious insults, more expressive
to explain my thoughts when asked.

Jess - I like the analagy you created, I do the same thing, it's the
picture of the elephant with wolves' teeth that that bothered me.

LW - You are a walker, you walk in speak softly with grace and walk out.
nice.

Duffy - Expressing yourself, maybe that's what I'm forgetting to see.
thanks

Mike - Well, if we're not learning to push back, we are, as Duffy put
it, learning to express ourselves.

Jean - I didn't forget you, your comment,
Your frustration is one reason I posted this topic. Look at your
defensive responce, here. First you say "No one is going to convince me
God doesn't exist" And in the same sentence you ramrod a belief that
differs from your own. Your last sentance,
""Where else, then, can these discussions go, but round and round in
circles?""

This is like an admission that you will either change one's beliefs
or that one is attempting to change yours. I see some, stating thier
point of view, then restating it, than trying to validate it, in
response to someone responding with their point of view all over again,
but it's not to change you, as much as to hear you say, I understand
what you belive. If you don't, and you only repeat what you belive
again, yes it will go in circles. A question at some point would be
helpful, or an acknowlegment of understanding would sufice and end the
circle.

Expressing yourself, yes I may have been missing that. Each needs to
express themselves, but then again I think I need to learn how better to
ask more questions, and to listen more.

Thank-you, you have all, helped me to think this out. I think I have to
not worry about you all so much, and just know that you are all
expressing yourselves. This is good.

jeanc200358,

Keep up the good fight, remember the Bible is your sword. For each
person who replies to tell you how stupid your beliefs are, how many
people are touched by what you write, but say nothing? You can only
plant seeds.

The Holy Spirit must soften their heart before anything you say can be
planted. Once you have planted the seed, it is the Holy Spirit that
must water the seed and make it grow. It is our place to plant the
seeds, regardless of if they will grow or not. Don't give up, you make
good points and you have NOT tried to force your beliefs on anyone. All
of the non-Christians speak with total conviction, you should not do
anything but the same.

Thankyou for showing yourself spider...

I don't engage in swordplay...I have better things to do.

Spider>

I have placed my swords upon my wall.

The only shield I carry is the soft garment of my faith.

Yet no sword can harm me for I am strengthened by the breath of god.

lol, you guys are too much.

"the Bible is your sword" means that Christians fight by quoting the
Bible.

Don't be so literal.

"Keep up the fight"


Says it all for me...I would rather join the dots.

whoops! mishap!

Spider, I don't think Jean means to change anyone. I think she has her
faith and it seems to be right for her. Her insistance in posting, I
think, is just her expression.

You, however, seem to have come forward as one who intends to change.
That's ok by me and I'm sure with Jean, because she has stated that no
one will tell her different, and as for me, well, my views changes from
time to time, sometimes its not an elephant I see, It'a a wolf, dressed
as a sheep.

Jess642,

I had a friend who was dying of cancer. Everyone used to say "She's a
real fighter" even when she was just skin and bones. Fighting does not
necessarily indicate violence. You are far too literal and closed
minded to connect the dots.

You are far too literal and closed
minded to connect the dots.

Judge not, that ye not be judged...

Spider>

lol, you guys are too much.

"the Bible is your sword" means that Christians fight by quoting the
Bible.

Don't be so literal.
____________________________________________________________

Aye sir...

And a two edged sword at that.

Carefull that the serpent in the haft bites not the hand that wields it.

Words glibly spoken can turn upon the one that understands them not.

Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself.

We must all make judgements in our day to day life. When you go to
dinner and the waiter asks how your meal is, do you reply "I can't
answer, you know "Judge not, lest ye be judged"? Judging in that
scripture means judge as in saying "She's bound for hell". I just said
"She's being extremely closed minded and trying to turn a statement
meant to encourage non-violence into an exhortation of violence."

You would make a wonderful wife! You catch your husband with your best
friend and you say "Do whatever you want and I won't judge you, because
some religion I don't believe in said something about not judging."

AdventureBegins,

Hebrews 4:12
--------------------------------------------------------------
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged
sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both
joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the
heart.
--------------------------------------------------------------

And in other writings of man in relation to the writings of man called
the bible.

These words written in holy scriptures can be...
"two-edg'd Weapons" that "are as well applicable to the service of
Falsehood, as of Truth."

Which is why I do not quote the bible.

~ We’ll Abolish Sin ~

~~~

You be you
and I’ll be me
together we can climb a tree
and look across creation’s breadth
with awesome admiration

Will it really matter
when all is said and done
if what we see
we disagree
in our interpretation.

What matters most
is not the ghost
but our spirit deep within

You be you
and I’ll be me
and we’ll abolish sin

~~~

(Abra 5/10/07)