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| Topic: Did God create evil? | |
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Do you need to know good and evil to be happy? Would it be possible for someone to be happy without knowing good from evil? I don't know...like a small child. Have you ever, in your adult life, been as happy as a baby playing with a set of car keys? According to the Bible, mankind was made to be like that. Not knowing the difference between good and evil, just being happy and living with nature. Even if you didn't know what good was, you could still enjoy it. What does the concept of happy mean if there is nothing to juxtapose it? Does that baby have any idea that it is happy if he didn't also experience sadness at some point? As concepts, both ends need to exist for either to have a meaning at all. How would I know what happy is if there were no opposite for me to understand the meaning of it? |
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I have to say as I read through your posts you are trying very hard to make an illogical logical. There is no way to make the bible logical nor the god it teaches of, it is not logical. This is a long stretch of faith that must happen to believe the bible and it's god great plan for us. As for all of us knowing one day the plan of god, I beg to differ with you on that one. I have no fear of hell or heaven for they only exist in my life now, I make it either heaven or hell. So the fear factor of religion of being damned by the religious people or their god is not a fear of mine. You all can keep that fear to yourself. I know you feel the fear of questioning and that is why when faced with logic you will buck it and hate it. But not all of us are so inclined to accept this fear in our lives. As for the evil, god created evil so he could test his beloved humans. Without it how can he "see" who is worthy? If he was a truly loving god, he would accept ALL with no discrimination of sexual orientation, religion, background, etc..... He teaches discrimination and judgement which of themselves can be evil. I don't fear hell. Nobody who is saved fears hell. I am filled with hope for a better place without pain or suffering of any kind. A time when death has died and there is no reason for fear. I believe that a truely loving God would want his children to love good and reject evil. A truely loving God would be forced to segregate his children based on if they love good or evil, to protect those who love good. Just as we wouldn't place a child molestor in a room our children. |
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Of course the notion of evil has to exist for the notion of good to have any relevance... What is up without down...what is left without right ... Every concept has two ends of the spectrum ... two sides of the same coin... One cannot exist without the other ... because it would have no relevance ... no frame of reference... Do you need to know good and evil to be happy? Would it be possible for someone to be happy without knowing good from evil? I don't know...like a small child. Have you ever, in your adult life, been as happy as a baby playing with a set of car keys? According to the Bible, mankind was made to be like that. Not knowing the difference between good and evil, just being happy and living with nature. Even if you didn't know what good was, you could still enjoy it. This analogy is no good for explanation because the reason a baby is content is because his or her every need is provided and comfort is tended to. If you take this same child and expose he or she to darkness, loniless, pain, cold, heat, discomfort, etc.... he will not be a happy baby. Even at as a child we know some of those things that are not good for us. This analogy has nothing to do with good and evil. It is our human responses to stimuli. If we were to go through our lives living as a child and expecting others to care for us how successful would we be at life? Growing out of the child stage is a necessity for living. Even our spirit or soul should participate in this growth otherwise we are immature and easily mislead. |
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Do you need to know good and evil to be happy? Would it be possible for someone to be happy without knowing good from evil? I don't know...like a small child. Have you ever, in your adult life, been as happy as a baby playing with a set of car keys? According to the Bible, mankind was made to be like that. Not knowing the difference between good and evil, just being happy and living with nature. Even if you didn't know what good was, you could still enjoy it. What does the concept of happy mean if there is nothing to juxtapose it? Does that baby have any idea that it is happy if he didn't also experience sadness at some point? As concepts, both ends need to exist for either to have a meaning at all. How would I know what happy is if there were no opposite for me to understand the meaning of it? Do you need to know you are happy to be happy? |
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Do you need to know you are happy to be happy? Yes if you want to be able to define it as happy - then yes you need to know what happy means. How do you know what happy means if you don't also have an idea what it means to not be happy? |
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This analogy is no good for explanation because the reason a baby is content is because his or her every need is provided and comfort is tended to. If you take this same child and expose he or she to darkness, loniless, pain, cold, heat, discomfort, etc.... he will not be a happy baby. Even at as a child we know some of those things that are not good for us. This analogy has nothing to do with good and evil. It is our human responses to stimuli. If we were to go through our lives living as a child and expecting others to care for us how successful would we be at life? Growing out of the child stage is a necessity for living. Even our spirit or soul should participate in this growth otherwise we are immature and easily mislead. No analogy is perfect, they all have their limits. In a perfect world, without pain or lies or death...without anything evil, would you need to know the difference between good and evil? Would you need to know that you are happy in order to be happy? Evil isn't necessary. We don't need to know, we want to know. We don't need to know, we need to trust, but pride insists that we must know. |
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My logic as My Eyes see it,,,
We were born of this world,, free from hate, discrimination,, fear,, sadness and so on,,,, Our tools in life not known to us,,, searching ones path,, learning .. growing,,, taking in what society has to offer us,,,, We have learned to hate, fear, love,, give and receive... I believe we were all born equal in hopes of a better tomorrow,,, some stray off the path and some still search for the right road in life,,, Hate was not imbedded into our souls at birth nor was evil, it is something we as I beleive one has built into themselves,,, Just some of my thoughts,,,, |
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I have to say as I read through your posts you are trying very hard to make an illogical logical. There is no way to make the bible logical nor the god it teaches of, it is not logical. This is a long stretch of faith that must happen to believe the bible and it's god great plan for us. As for all of us knowing one day the plan of god, I beg to differ with you on that one. I have no fear of hell or heaven for they only exist in my life now, I make it either heaven or hell. So the fear factor of religion of being damned by the religious people or their god is not a fear of mine. You all can keep that fear to yourself. I know you feel the fear of questioning and that is why when faced with logic you will buck it and hate it. But not all of us are so inclined to accept this fear in our lives. As for the evil, god created evil so he could test his beloved humans. Without it how can he "see" who is worthy? If he was a truly loving god, he would accept ALL with no discrimination of sexual orientation, religion, background, etc..... He teaches discrimination and judgement which of themselves can be evil. I don't fear hell. Nobody who is saved fears hell. I am filled with hope for a better place without pain or suffering of any kind. A time when death has died and there is no reason for fear. I believe that a truely loving God would want his children to love good and reject evil. A truely loving God would be forced to segregate his children based on if they love good or evil, to protect those who love good. Just as we wouldn't place a child molestor in a room our children. I have been saved and baptisted twice in my life so does that give me a free pass? I do not believe but I have gone through those steps? You are now stating evil is a necessity to determine who is eligible for heaven, so god created evil to weed people out, is what you are saying here. A truly loving god would open his arms to all, regardless to sexual orientation, religion, background, etc.... judgement and discrimination can be evil in and of itself. Your ananlogy of the child molester is exactly what your god did, he placed the "child molester", devil in the midsts of his children and is making you defend yourself against him. |
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Do you need to know you are happy to be happy? Yes if you want to be able to define it as happy - then yes you need to know what happy means. How do you know what happy means if you don't also have an idea what it means to not be happy? Do you need to be able to define what happy? What good does defining a word bring to the world? Okay, I know what the meaning of "happy" is...but there are still genocides, murders, rapes, lies, stealing, violence of every kind. What does knowing the meaning of good or evil or happy or sad bring? NOTHING. No good comes of it. Evil comes from knowing what is good and not doing it. If all you knew was good, then you wouldn't be able to do evil. That's the lesson God hopes we learn. We don't have to know, we have to trust. |
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You are now stating evil is a necessity to determine who is eligible for heaven, so god created evil to weed people out, is what you are saying here. I said nothing of the kind. I have repeatedly stated that evil is not necessary. I can't be more clear. Why should I discuss anything with you if you are going to just ignore my statements and make up words for me? 
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Do you need to be able to define what happy? What good does defining a word bring to the world? Okay, I know what the meaning of "happy" is...but there are still genocides, murders, rapes, lies, stealing, violence of every kind. What does knowing the meaning of good or evil or happy or sad bring? NOTHING. No good comes of it. Evil comes from knowing what is good and not doing it. If all you knew was good, then you wouldn't be able to do evil. That's the lesson God hopes we learn. We don't have to know, we have to trust. I am just saying that they are inseparable ends of the same continuum. One idea has no relevance without the frame of reference of the other. I agree with you spider ... I wish genocides, murders, rapes and other violence did not exist. The fact that they ever existed is enough for us to have both ends of the spectrum. We have history to remind us. I wish we could now just live in peace and love and harmony. |
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There is no reason for evil.
Without the concept of evil there would be no concept of divinity. Why do you need to have something to compare your existance to?
Value assessment, however it is not necessarily just concerning my existence though. You are also comparing your existence here spider, it is the nature of this conversation... Evil and divinity are of comparitive value to one another. Everything is relative in a comparitive sense to something else. It is absolutely necessary for both ends of any given spectrum to exist for either to exist. You complain about evil and blame it on God and then argue that evil is necessary. Evil isn't necessary.
I do not complain about the concepts evil or divinity, spider. I certainly do not blame anything on 'God'. I simply say that an omni-god does not exist. One cannot blame anything on a non-existent entity. It's NOT necessary for us to know the difference between good and evil, we simply have to trust God to know the difference for us.
You lose yourself here... an illogical leap into the notion of knowing without knowing. So then, we can all choose whatever, without a comparitive value? That is absurd. It is impossible to choose without having a choice. ... it's going to be God saying "Why couldn't you guys have just trusted me. You are so unhappy about all the evil in the world, but you created it all."
An all-loving 'God' who says, 'See, I told ya so?'... |
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Evil comes from knowing what is good and not doing it. If all you knew was good, then you wouldn't be able to do evil. That's the lesson God hopes we learn. We don't have to know, we have to trust.
How can one know what is good without knowing what is good? |
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Without the concept of evil there would be no concept of divinity. What? That makes no sense. Good or evil are ways you can describe a divine being, but it would be possible to believe in a divine being without knowing what evil is. Value assessment, however it is not necessarily just concerning my existence though. Is it necessary to make a value assessment? No, I'm pretty sure you could live without doing that. 
It is absolutely necessary for both ends of any given spectrum to exist for either to exist. No it's not. To understand and appreciate, yes. To exist? Nope. You lose yourself here... an illogical leap into the notion of knowing without knowing. So then, we can all choose whatever, without a comparitive value? That is absurd. It is impossible to choose without having a choice. This is why I have to keep calling you on strawman fallacies. I said nothing about choice. We don't need to know what good and evil are, we just need to trust God. It is our own pride, that thought that "maybe I know better" that caused the fall. An all-loving 'God' who says, 'See, I told ya so?'... Yeah, that's exactly not what I said. I would say "strawman", but I think you were just trying to get under my skin. |
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Think about this. If you lived in Hawaii, would you need to move to Siberia to enjoy it? No, not at all. If you lived in Siberia for awhile, then you would appreciate Hawaii more, but wouldn't be necessary to experiance Siberia to enjoy Hawaii. There is NO NEED for evil. None. All of that "You have to have evil to know what good is" crap makes me sick. Why do you need to know what good is to enjoy it? Would we all be better off in a world without pain or sickness or death? If we had pain and sickness and death, how could we enjoy a world without it? It's all contradictions. We weren't meant to live in a world of pain and in the end, there will be no more pain or suffering. but if you never lived anywhere but Hawaii, and you never knew cold weather under say 50 degrees, you would not appreciate the warmth that hawaii provided and therefor you would not appreciate it as much as you would if you HAD lived in Siberia for a few months. If you never knew one or the other the one you did know would not be so pure. |
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Evil comes from knowing what is good and not doing it. If all you knew was good, then you wouldn't be able to do evil. That's the lesson God hopes we learn. We don't have to know, we have to trust.
How can one know what is good without knowing what is good? I think you are asking "How can you do good, if you don't know what good is?" You don't have to, you just have to do what God wants you to do. If you trust God, then you can know that everything you are doing is the right thing to do, even without knowing what good and evil are. |
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Of course the notion of evil has to exist for the notion of good to have any relevance... What is up without down...what is left without right ... Every concept has two ends of the spectrum ... two sides of the same coin... One cannot exist without the other ... because it would have no relevance ... no frame of reference... That's what I am trying to say...Damn you're good. |
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Of course the notion of evil has to exist for the notion of good to have any relevance... What is up without down...what is left without right ... Every concept has two ends of the spectrum ... two sides of the same coin... One cannot exist without the other ... because it would have no relevance ... no frame of reference... Do you need to know good and evil to be happy? Would it be possible for someone to be happy without knowing good from evil? I don't know...like a small child. Have you ever, in your adult life, been as happy as a baby playing with a set of car keys? According to the Bible, mankind was made to be like that. Not knowing the difference between good and evil, just being happy and living with nature. Even if you didn't know what good was, you could still enjoy it. no, but you do have to know sad to know happy. |
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but if you never lived anywhere but Hawaii, and you never knew cold weather under say 50 degrees, you would not appreciate the warmth that hawaii provided and therefor you would not appreciate it as much as you would if you HAD lived in Siberia for a few months. If you never knew one or the other the one you did know would not be so pure. No, your understanding doesn't change the quality being experianced. Hawaii would be a great place, even if there were no people there to enjoy it. The point I'm making (that you are missing) is that you don't have to know how good it is to enjoy it. Maybe you would appreciate it more if you had something to compare it to, but you don't have to have a point of reference to enjoy something. |
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I have to say as I read through your posts you are trying very hard to make an illogical logical. There is no way to make the bible logical nor the god it teaches of, it is not logical. This is a long stretch of faith that must happen to believe the bible and it's god great plan for us. As for all of us knowing one day the plan of god, I beg to differ with you on that one. I have no fear of hell or heaven for they only exist in my life now, I make it either heaven or hell. So the fear factor of religion of being damned by the religious people or their god is not a fear of mine. You all can keep that fear to yourself. I know you feel the fear of questioning and that is why when faced with logic you will buck it and hate it. But not all of us are so inclined to accept this fear in our lives. As for the evil, god created evil so he could test his beloved humans. Without it how can he "see" who is worthy? If he was a truly loving god, he would accept ALL with no discrimination of sexual orientation, religion, background, etc..... He teaches discrimination and judgement which of themselves can be evil. I don't fear hell. Nobody who is saved fears hell. I am filled with hope for a better place without pain or suffering of any kind. A time when death has died and there is no reason for fear. I believe that a truely loving God would want his children to love good and reject evil. A truely loving God would be forced to segregate his children based on if they love good or evil, to protect those who love good. Just as we wouldn't place a child molestor in a room our children. Here brings another point, if Christians don't fear Hell and non-christians don't believe in it, why do we constantly speak of it? Why is it even still a concept? |
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