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| Topic: Did God create evil? | |
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Eljay:
By your logic, if the world were run by people's conscience, then it would be run by 'God'? Guess what... This world is ran by choices which are made based on one's conscience. And you call my thoughts moronic? |
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What difference is all this going to make? It looks to me like alot of people just like to argue.Let see it is light outside but is it really dark? huuummmmmmmm Miles
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WOW. Tigers exist...even if you haven't seen one. Tigers can bite you and harm you...even if you think they cannot. If I live in Alaska and have never seen a tiger in my whole life and no one has ever told me about tigers...they do not infact exsist. Your perception doesn't dictate reality. Are you telling me that a blind person couldn't be killed by falling off a cliff? The blind guy just runs right off a cliff without being aware it's there and like the road runner he just keep on running? No, he falls. Regardless of his personal perception of what reality is. Perception is reality. Until someone experiences something, it is in fact not reality FOR THEM. They may accept what you tell them as fact but at that point their perception has changed...but if you don't have any idea...it is not reality. If I told you that no one in France eats cheese.... and you accept that as fact... you have the perception that no one in France eats cheese and that is now your reality. "Perception is reality" is not a fact - it's a cliche. It's another way of saying that Reality is subjective. What you are essentially saying is that reality to a person is based on only their level of experience, and understanding. This does not negate the absolute of reality - that outside of perception lies the truth. |
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The topic as addressed in the OP was did 'God' create evil?
If 'God' created all things the question is answered. Is evil necessary? It is impossible, to believe in a divine being without the ability to recognize it's divinity. It would be just a being, and not considered divine, in any way, shape, or form. That recognition requires a comparitive value assessment, which is contingient upon the existence and knowledge of both, what does, and what does not constitute divinity.
There you have it, both ends are necessary to all spectrum of opposite. Peace. Spider even agreed with the above... 
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I said this: For 'God' to be able to know what will happen, 'God' must also know then, what will not happen.
Eljay you said this, much to my surprise, might I add... You're kidding, right!? That's moronic.
What? You're kidding right? Moronic? I am curious to read your logical reasoning behind this claim, Eljay. How can 'God' know what will happen without knowing what will not? What will not happen is anything other than that which will. 'God' has no deductive reasoning skills, then? You are merely stating what appears to be a logical conclusion, however the two entities do not relate. What "happens" is fact. What doesn't happen is "non-existant". How can something which does not exist - be known? Perhaps if you had qualified your statement - with , oh lets say - "could have happened", or "should have happened", both of which indicate an occurance that , at one time happened (so as to draw reference to it), I would tend to consider agreeing with you. That is what deductive reasoning is. Deducing what "coulda, woulda, shoulda", based upon a point of reference which is understood. That does not equate with "everything that doesn't happen". |
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It's called a "conscience." Ah, but wait a minute? Isn't that the pantheistic view? More and more Christians becoming Pantheists every day. 
Abra.... can't we share?
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Edited by
Spidercmb
on
Fri 02/08/08 11:06 AM
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The topic as addressed in the OP was did 'God' create evil? If 'God' created all things the question is answered. Is evil necessary? It is impossible, to believe in a divine being without the ability to recognize it's divinity. It would be just a being, and not considered divine, in any way, shape, or form. That recognition requires a comparitive value assessment, which is contingient upon the existence and knowledge of both, what does, and what does not constitute divinity.
There you have it, both ends are necessary to all spectrum of opposite. Peace. Spider even agreed with the above...
Why do you feel the need to misrepresent what I have said? I have never agreed with your silly, bordering on moronic, idea that evil is require to understand divinity. I'm just going to ignore the first part, because unless you can find an "evil" on the ground and touch it, God didn't create it. Evil isn't a thing, it is an action. |
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What difference is all this going to make? It looks to me like alot of people just like to argue.Let see it is light outside but is it really dark? huuummmmmmmm Miles That's what it is Miles. People just like to argue. Is there anything wrong with that? Is arguing evil?
That's an interesting question. Ultimately the real arguments on the religion forms almost always boil down to two sides,… One side consists of those who believe that only one specific picture of God can be true and that picture is carved in stone and written up in a book and no other view is worth considering. And they only way to be accepted by God is to accept Jesus Christ as your only Lord and Savior and join the choir and sing, “Jesus Love me This I Know, for the Bible Tells me So” The other side consists of those who believe that God doesn’t care what you believe. God is omniscient and gives his power to all directly without any need to believe in any particular historical dogmas. They believe that God creates the universe through our thoughts and that every thought is a prayer whether it is intended to be or not. They live what Jesus taught rather that trying to teach how Jesus might have lived. They don’t believe in joining choirs for the most part, but when they do they sing, “This Little Light of Mine, I’m Gonna Let it Shine!” The reason there are so many arguments is because the first group of people refuse to recognize the second group of people as having a legitimate relationship with God. They consider the second group of people to be rejecting God and living in compete rebellion. That’s where the PROBLEM LIES! The first group of people are so busying trying get people to accept the biblical story that they have become bigoted, blind, judgmental and totally removed from anything that can be considered godly or spiritual.
Clearly I’m with the second group here. 
I don’t think the first group of people are going to hell, but I do think they make life a living hell for all the other people simply because they refuse to stop judging them as being rebellious to God. 
And what you have just read is the God’s honest TRUTH! Nothing to argue about there.
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Eljay: By your logic, if the world were run by people's conscience, then it would be run by 'God'? Guess what... This world is ran by choices which are made based on one's conscience. And you call my thoughts moronic? Yes, it is. However, the "conscience" (certainly a topic for another thread) can be seared, and ignored. Once the conscious is seared - it is no longer being "run by God". Perhaps you might want to check out the exegesis on this from scripture before you start claiming the facts on conscience. |
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God created evil because he created man...yes, and even the devil, which I believe was a fallen angel or such.
So the answer is yes. And he can also stop evil and you can too. |
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The topic as addressed in the OP was did 'God' create evil? If 'God' created all things the question is answered. And as soon as you state a "thing" which is evil - we can close down the thread. Until that time, I say God created NOTHING - (that is No-thing for those of you not reading along) that is evil. If something "does" evil, it does not follow that it IS evil. That is subjective at best. What I'm waiting for is to learn of some thing which can be looked upon as evil with no action involved. I can look at a tree and see it is not evil - but if it falls on my car and crushes it, I might consider it evil - but that is only my opinion based on my subjective analysis. I'd be pretty hard pressed to convince you all a tree is evil. |
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Abra.... can't we share?
Certainly
I think what gets people dander up is when the Bible Thumpers make it sound like anyone who doesn't believe that the Bible is the sole word of God is clearly rejecting God and being rebellious. They also suggest that anyone who doesn't recognize Jesus as God is also a pathetic loser. Those are the attitudes that people get upset about. I have no problem with your relationship with God. As long as you have no problem with my relationship with God then all systems are GO!
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God created evil because he created man...yes, and even the devil, which I believe was a fallen angel or such. So the answer is yes. And he can also stop evil and you can too. However it is man who does the evil. Wouldn't it make sense to say "Man" created evil? |
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Thanks Abra thats a pretty good objective view I would say. Now did the chicken come 1st or the egg? I think they were created equal.. Blessings..Miles
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WOW. Tigers exist...even if you haven't seen one. Tigers can bite you and harm you...even if you think they cannot. If I live in Alaska and have never seen a tiger in my whole life and no one has ever told me about tigers...they do not infact exsist. Your perception doesn't dictate reality. Are you telling me that a blind person couldn't be killed by falling off a cliff? The blind guy just runs right off a cliff without being aware it's there and like the road runner he just keep on running? No, he falls. Regardless of his personal perception of what reality is. Perception is reality. Until someone experiences something, it is in fact not reality FOR THEM. They may accept what you tell them as fact but at that point their perception has changed...but if you don't have any idea...it is not reality. If I told you that no one in France eats cheese.... and you accept that as fact... you have the perception that no one in France eats cheese and that is now your reality. "Perception is reality" is not a fact - it's a cliche. It's another way of saying that Reality is subjective. What you are essentially saying is that reality to a person is based on only their level of experience, and understanding. This does not negate the absolute of reality - that outside of perception lies the truth. Whose absolute reality? Yours? Whose truth yours? Your truth is not mine. Your reality is not mine. Who is right? I know that I am not wrong in mine so....... I said that last sentence for example. Who is right? Who is wrong? You have your reality but it does not belong to everyone. My reality, I am sure, is different from yours. My reality involves my enviroment which I am sure is different from yours. My reality involves the way I see the world, my perceptions, which I am sure are different from yours. My reality involves my projections, such as this post, which is obviously different from yours. So who is right? I am right where I stand. So does that make you wrong? In my mind you would be wrong from the ground up but my reality is not yours. So you stand right where you are at. Making our reality, truths, different but not either of us is wrong. So perception is truth from where a person stands. |
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Eljay: By your logic, if the world were run by people's conscience, then it would be run by 'God'? Guess what... This world is ran by choices which are made based on one's conscience. And you call my thoughts moronic? Yes, it is. However, the "conscience" (certainly a topic for another thread) can be seared, and ignored. Once the conscious is seared - it is no longer being "run by God". Perhaps you might want to check out the exegesis on this from scripture before you start claiming the facts on conscience. The problem here is scripture means nothing more to me than a story of parables so now how would you explain it? |
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Edited by
Eljay
on
Fri 02/08/08 11:18 AM
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Abra.... can't we share?
Certainly
I think what gets people dander up is when the Bible Thumpers make it sound like anyone who doesn't believe that the Bible is the sole word of God is clearly rejecting God and being rebellious. They also suggest that anyone who doesn't recognize Jesus as God is also a pathetic loser. Those are the attitudes that people get upset about. I have no problem with your relationship with God. As long as you have no problem with my relationship with God then all systems are GO!
What's going on here Abra - we're in agreement! My objection - like yours - is not whether or not people accept or reject the Christian God, but with the misrepresentation of what they believe He is, or what they think I believe based on their perception of Him. In this - I tend to respond. It bothers me not when people think it's a fairy-tale - if that works for them, so be it. But the claim that God created evil is a mis-representation of what is being attributed to the God I believe in - and is being stated as fact through faulty logic. I feeled compeled to speak. As soon as an example of this "thing" which was created evil is demonstrated, I will recuse myself from the thread, and walk away more aware than I was when I entered it. |
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Whose absolute reality? Yours? Whose truth yours? Your truth is not mine. Your reality is not mine. Who is right? I know that I am not wrong in mine so....... 
There is only one absolute reality, that's why it's called absolute. |
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Eljay,
Close the thread then...
A notion is a thing...
Evil is a notion... The creation of the circumstances necessary for the possibility for something(evil) to exist is a thing...
spider: Yes. Okay.
That was your response to this... It is impossible, to believe in a divine being without the ability to recognize it's divinity. It would be just a being, and not considered divine, in any way, shape, or form. That recognition requires a comparitive value assessment, which is contingient upon the existence and knowledge of both, what does, and what does not constitute divinity.
The same logic applies to any given concept concerning opposites... in other words...all things... Fill in the blank of evil and divinity again should you choose to do such a thing. The point is no less valid, whether or not you claim that a divine being could be evil. |
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To all...
Please know that I do not harbor ill-will towards anyone here... Great job James, Miles, spider, Eljay, dragoness, Artsy, and all others... Peace... It is a beautiful thing... |
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