No, he instructed his members to go kill. An evil action.
The topic is "Did God create evil." How is your post related to that?

His followers all had free will. You cannot possibly blame he that is worshiped for the way his creations use free will. You think that free will leaves the worshiped one blameless.

Wrong and they will pay dearly......trust me on that.

listen rabbit myself, eljay and every other Christian here know that every man sins.....including all of us....the only difference is that we know right when we do it...and ask for forgiveness for our iniquities. What kills me is that people want to have it "their" way in believing, in doing bad things and then justifying them away.....which is fine....but know he knows every move you make he knows everything about you from the time you were in your mothers womb.....and you can say otherwise and that is again "your choice"

Yes Rabbit - his followers had choices. Either they could go kill - as Manson instructed, or be killed themselves. But surely Manson holds no resposibility for this. In the discussion of action - he is innocent. On that of intent, he's not. In and of itself, there's nothing about the physical make-up of Manson that is evil. Do you understand the distinction here Rabbit?

If you believe that it scares me. I think Manson is evil for what he did. I also think that a God that knows all things at all times the future the past, if he creats a devil then he is evil.

With an omnipotent god free will is not a compatible concept. You do not have an all powerful being in charge of everything and then have free will in the mix. He is either all powerful or he/it is not. So which is it? He created all we see, do, feel, concieve, etc..... which includes evil at all it's stages or he/it did not and then what did he create and what did the free willers create? It is not logical otherwise. We know man wrote the bible and made it say what they wanted it to say, same with all other revered books of god or gods so if you take that out of the equation as man made then what did god create and what have we created? Who is then evil god or man?

God didn't create evil....understand rabbit satan was an angel at God's right hand.....satan is the one that thought he was better....and God banished him.....but even after all satan did God the Lord and Creator of all....let him return......now he is here...and yes he is getting humans by the bucket fulls...and as a follower of Christ I am here to tell you you have two choices....you follow God or you don't and pay the consequence.....it's that simple.......no hidden anything.....stop trying to justify what you can't change.....God knows all......but the point is that HE can't make you believe...that has to come from you......

And also remember in the end satan will be banished for ever and ever and ever....and that is the way it is........

Well again I have to disagree......God cannot force you to believe in him.....because of the free choice he gave all humanity. But does this take away from his POWER....on the contrary.....Don't you see how truly smart God is......If you choose to live your life la de da and do whatever you want in it....that is fine.....But God's plan for us was much more then to merely exsist.....and it took him showing me personally for me to get that. Now all is given to Him....which of course makes it so much easier on me to then do His work.

And yes man wrote the Bible but they did so....listening to him as I do....and a whole lot of others do. Think about this point again.....from my standpoint. I would never think God to let a book just written of man and only man be here guiding and leading people if it was not truly the inspired word of God. That my friend just makes no sense at all. \

Here is another way to look at it.....God did not create man to be evil....or do wrong...that is each persons choice to do as he wishes. Do you think a drug addict wakes up and says, "hey what a beautiful day, I think I will be a drug addict." It comes from somewhere....I work with addicts all the time....I have seen them work a program or 12-step to no avail....but take that same person and add God and Christ to the mix and I can't tell you how quickly they quit. I am working with a gal right now a meth addict for 10 years....jail programs you name it....she tried it....But now I counsel her...shes plugged in so to speak and 22 days clean...first time in 10 years....so explain that one if you can?

I still don't get it. God didn't tell Satan to do anything evil...Manson told his followers to commit murder. What is the connection you are drawing here? I honestly don't see it, I think you are simply grasping at straws.

Logical problems with your statement

God couldn't know Satan's actions, unless Satan was going to actually commit them.

God would be evil to punish Satan for actions that were never commited.

If God had stopped Satan from tempting Eve, then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, so God wouldn't have stopped Satan, so Satan would tempt Eve, but God would stop Satan and then Satan would never have tempted Eve, ...repeating infinitely. It's called paradox.

For God to know the future, it has to happen. That's why God punishes the guilty. Punish them after the fact, because if you stop them then you are punishing them for a crime they never commited. Punishing someone for a crime they never commited cannot be called anything but evil. Since God is not evil, God can only punish people for the crimes they commit. People are given a long time from their crime until they are punished, this allows for repentance. God not only gives second chances, but in most cases billions of chances to do the right thing. And how hard is the right thing that God requires of you? Not hard at all, just admit you were wrong. Wait...that is hard, but in retrospect it seems so easy.

If God knew the future, even if it didn't happen...why create the earth at all? Wouldn't it be easier to just punish the guilty and reward the good and get on with it? There are many logically untenable positions within your logic. Trust me, I'm right on this. There is no doubt or question. God knows everything that has, is currently or will happen...the one stipulation is that for God to know it, it will have to happen somewhere along the time line.

Rabbit,

I don't know about you, but I passed my math classes in high school and college. You're making my point. Manson is evil by what he did, not because he was created evil. Pay attention to the thread.

If we go by the bible god created satan, he was his angel, if god is all knowing then he knew that his creation would turn evil and all that. Angels do not have free will. Neither does man from the bibles stand point. So he did create evil by the word of the bible. God created man by the bible to live in a life of torture and sin to be persecuted by the devil until he blesses him with eternal life. I was raised on religion both baptist and catholic so I understand the concept of god and his lessons for man. There is nothing there you can teach me. I use my logic and if you do, it doesn't compute well.

Second of all I do what I want to do and follow my own set of morals and ethics. They work just fine. As a matter of fact most religious people are sure that I am religious when they meet me because of my own personal morals and ethics. I do not just exist in the sense you were implying. My existance is highly spirited and very fulfilling. Especially now that I let go of the constraints and hypocrisy of religion.

Thirdly, I know all about addicts and their struggle. Regardless to how you think that god helps them, they are making a godless choice to not use again. It has nothing to do with a power above themselves. They may choose to believe it is but it is their own personal strength and endurance that makes them stop using.

I have a disease (MS)that will eat my body from the inside out and I have through my own power and endurance overcame alot that the docs did not figure I would. I am rather confusing to them as a matter of fact. To a religious person it would be the power of god performing a miracle but I know from my own experience and struggle that god had nothing to do with it. I took personal responsibility for my life and the quality of life that I wanted to live and fought for it. I reached down inside me and accessed my personal energy and have since experienced my own personal energy daily. I live a good life and although I have this disease and will till the day I die, I am positive and motivated to be here and make the best of everyday. I do not get my strength from a god.

Feral, you have the right to believe how you want and do in your life what you want in the name of you or your god. I will not suffer a hell as there is no hell unless you create one here on earth for yourself. There is no heaven unless you make it here on earth for yourself. So the threat from religion of the suffering of my soul is mute to me. And laughable actually. I will not ever worry about this god of yours because he causes me no strife except from the people who are hell bent on converting me and then I have a problem. No one will control my spirit but me. I have a good grasp on it too. I take very good care of my spirit. So you are welcome to the belief and if it works well for you then good.

You have contradicted yourself.

First you say that Satan turned evil.
Then you say that Angels do not have free will.

Which is it?

The Bible is clear that we have free will and that angels have free will. The Angels couldn't have rebelled unless they had free will. If God just scripted these things to happen...to what purpose?

I WOULD NEVER CREATE SUCH A THING !!!

Would it maybe be better to say (a sincere question, not a statement) that Manson has an evil nature, since it is his intent with actions that are evil? Because it is his intent and actions to harm others.

Mirror, you are not evil, just a little psychotic..just like the rest of us.

Would it also not fall under something like the typical Christian beleif of "love the sinner..hate the sin".

Again, I agree that "evil" is an act with intent. is a person born "evil"? I personally do not think so. Just as a car can be used to rush someone to the emergency room to save a life, the same car can be used to run 50 people over killing them. So I think strongly that evil is not a 'thing" as posted earlier. It is an action with bad/harmful intent.

Like if you were to create the most vile thing in the world knowing what it would do.

What good will that do?

Will that change what they did?

Will that make the people who go to heaven feel better knowing that those who have trespassed against them are being justly punished?

I thought the basis of Christianity is forgiveness. And that God is a forgiving God.

Forgive your enemies and wish them no harm.

It would be totally out of character for God not to forgive those who have committed atrocities.

An unforgiving God would be a demon in his own right. No better than those who have committed the atrocities. Committing an atrocity against them by casting them into a hell fire would be to stoop to their level. Is that what God does? Stoop to the level of Hitler? Just to show them who the real boss is?

I think not.

Besides, could you really enjoy yourself in heaven knowing there are people eternally suffering in hell?

How could enjoy yourself knowing that pain and agony will never cease? All that would have been done is that it would be removed from you eyes. Or maybe not. Maybe there is a window into hell and you can watch those people suffering and enjoy the sadistic moment in memory of that they had done and how much they deserve to be tortured?

Either way doesn’t sound very nice.

Wouldn’t a genuinely all-loving God simply let those people die?

The whole idea of having an eternal hell fire to torture people for all eternality is clearly a manmade idea. It was thought up out of feelings of a need for revenge (feelings which we aren’t supposed to have) and from an idea of the very thought spending eternity in a hell fire being a deterrent to crime. A deterrent that apparently doesn’t work.

If God created an eternal hell fire in which to cast souls for eternal torture, then God most certainly did create the most evil place anyone can possibly imagine.

So all you are saying here is that God did indeed create evil. He created hell!

I don’t believe in a God that would feel a need to create an eternal hell. It simply isn’t necessary. There’s no need to punish wrong-doers for all of eternity. Who would benefit from that? Only those who seek revenge and who cannot forgive. But God said that we must forgive. So the need for hell is an oxymoron within the context of that religion. Just another inconsistency in the mythology.