If im in a relationship with her, I don't have a problem with her treating me, if Im on a date with her particularly the first few times out.. no, not happening, she keeps insisting that we go dutch I will insist she go by herself.

perfect answer

I can get behind your stance of going dutch. But what if she truly felt uncomfortable letting you pay the first couple of dates? Or the were circumstances that made it reasonable for her to pay ...

Instance: a guy regularly drives 200 miles, one way, to see the girl. Girl feels like he has contributed his share to the date, meet, whatever you want to call it ... is that not a case to feel less emasculated by here paying for the actual meal?

I’ve known men who become insulted at ANY point for a woman to offer, so wondered how common that is.

I think your expectations sound reasonably traditional. After a few dates I will offer, but it begins to become uncomfortable for me to suggest an outing if I know he is going to insist on funding it every....single....time!

we dont go any dates, its that simple, hence why I insist on meet and greets for the first time.

If she makes a fuss over me paying for a beverage then I know she has an issue with the guy paying.

so right there I say ciao.

If a woman thinks that by me paying for a date that makes her obligated to me for whatever that is a red flag for me and the opportunity to do the Run forest runnnnnnnnnnnn and making sure the door hits my azz on the way out.



If a guy drives 200 miles to see the girl he is really into that girl, she doesnt have to contribute a thing because she is worth the drive.

if she said come see me 4 times a week and it looks like she is taking advantage of him that is different.

Uh oh....

Are women not suppose to have baggage? There could be a logical reason behind the red flag, in this instance (most are not logical)



Well thats not playing fair.

Would you allow her to pay at that point?

If im driving to see her, its my financial responsibility not hers.
now if we are in a relationship and even then so what? its not her financial responsibility to make sure that Im coming to see her.

If I cannot afford to drive two hundred clicks to see her then maybe I shouldn't be dating her and I should be concerned about making more money.

When I was on DH I did meet someone that lived in Newark and I lived in Brooklyn (cobble hill) I didn't expect her to pay for me when we went out, even though she offered, but she understood that a man who is going on a dates with woman doesn't expect to go dutch, we are not friends or buddies, she doesnt pay for me because ladies dont pay for men on dates, when youre in a relationship sure you take turns but not on dates.

Ok ... now devils advocate moment

Are you suggesting that your feelings on the matter trump hers?

its a matter of compatibility Fervid

if a woman Im getting to know says to me hey the reason why I insist on paying my own way/dutch is because Im independent, I have my own money , I dont want to feel obligated.

Right there tells me we are not compatible ,plus this is a conversation I usually have before we meet or when we meet and I insist on treating her because I want to see how she reacts.


Some women do make a big deal out of going dutch, and that is fine and that is the last time we ever see each too.

if there is this much argumemt about who pays for coffee or a date... .. I shudder to think what will happen when it comes to deciding who is on top

I agree!!!

actually it is simpler than that .. it is a matter of communication ., if a man says ... would love to meet you .. let me buy you a coffee .. .there really is no problem .. how easy is that

Ok, but what if those are not the reasons? My stance doesn't come from a need for independence(per say), feeling obligated, or about who has money ... it is more personal

I get your stance, and we would never be compatible. I am just trying to understand more about why some men feel so strongly about it.
I have, mistakenly, crossed that line with a guy. To me it meant nothing. I paid the bill and we went our seperate ways. Months later he told me that I made him feel less of a man, when my intent was only to not be in a position I myself felt uncomfortable.

Blondey, its not that simple, because some women dont want a man to buy them a coffee, they insist on buying it themselves.


Fervid.... that guy answered the question, some of us are brought up that a man when dating goes out of his way to treat the lady like a lady, not a friend, or a buddy, of a friends with benefit.

Im Italian, and I see it within my family, my parents and grandparents told me their stories about the dating process.

A man feels like a man around his lady, a man feels like stunad around a woman who pays for things for him on a date or go dutch, I go dutch with my sisters, friends, relatives etc.

Think about this Fervid, Its like me saying to you "fervid ( I dont know your real name obviously) I want to take you out tonight, but please dont wear any make up, put your hair in a ponytail, wear frumpy clothing, granny panties, flats,no perfume , all natural..

we are going to a party afterward... how would that make you feel? would you feel like a woman ?

Men just like being a man not a boy.

Truth fully, I wouldn't mind at first. It would actually make me feel more appreciated. I would see it as him being comfortable and accepting of who I am au natural ... then I mighy think "who does he think he is to tell me how to dress" but that would come after the awww moment.

Dont get me wrong ... With all MGTOW talk, and I've seen it in a few sites, it is comforting to know there are still men out their who date like you do. And I am well aware my aversion to it stems from bad baggage. It's just life. And a point of view.

Did you happen to read what I posted in here on this matter?
Typically a man wants to give to a woman, take care of her, provide and protect and in this days that can take the form of wanting to pay for her.
And like Undrrboss explained very clearly: on dates. When in a relationship it changes.
If you as a woman cannot receive his giving to you, you do emasculated him. You disrupt the natural energetic flow of giving & receiving. A woman is the receiving part, and if you cannot do that, cannot receive, he cannot give and thus cannot feel like a man. This is unspoken, these are dynamics that go back to way back when.
And like to me it is a huge red flag when a man doesn't want to pay for me on the meet & greet and at least the 1st date after that, I can wholeheartedly understand it is a similar red flag to a man if a woman cannot receive.

If you cannot receive because of past hurt you cannot expect men to cater for that. That's like saying "he's not able to commit because he's gotten so hurt by his ex" and demanding that you get involved with him anyways, even though you know it won't go anywhere.
YOU are responsible for your own baggage, not the other gender. So if you cannot receive then work on your issues. It means you aren't ready to date.
If you cannot receive you cannot be in a healthy relationship as that is all about giving AND receiving.
It screams "trust issues" and that will make it very difficult to have a health relationship.

It's quite logical: they make an effort to be with you, to see you, because they feel you are worth it.
Men want a confident woman, a high-value woman, one who a) feels herself she is worth it and B) is able to appreciate their effort for them because that shows she is worthy. Again it is able to receive that and to be proud and feel worthy of who you are.
If you then offer to pay because he's made that effort it's a direct message of "I feel guilty you did that for me" by which you A)ruin his good feeling about doing this for a woman who is really worthy and b) you tell him you do NOT feel worthy.
So he then made all that effort for a woman who isn't worthy and/or doesn't appreciate his effort for a woman of High Value, which up to that point he thought you was.
It IS emasculating to a man, unless you have a wuss. A real man will feel emasculated and disappointed. Men want to win. They want the woman they're after to be a prize, worthy and making him feel he's won the jackpot!
You take that away from him the minute you want to pay for the date.
Like Undrrboss says, it's HIS choice to drive that distance.
And yes, you can sure show your appreciation for him doing that. Men do like that. But then go don't go overboard. I once bought a man a cuddly toy because he said he wanted a cuddle when he'd driven 2 hours. In Dutch the word for "cuddle" and "cuddly toy" is the same, hence me doing that. Didn't cost much, impact of appreciation was huge.
Another bloke like crystals, as do I. He drove over 3 hours. I gave him 2-3 tumbled crystals as token of my appreciation. Small things.

And you know, if you feel uncomfortable about these things, you can express that, as long as you do it the right way. Which is not insisting to pay the bill. It is saying something like "I feel a bit uncomfortable..." "I feel..." But do NOT insist to pay.
Learn to receive. Love yourself, then it gets easier.

Cant stop laughing ️️️