I'm in complete agreement with this.

However, I think there is a actually a justification to the 'bashing' of a religion when people attempt to 'shove' down other people's throats.

It is the radical extremists, who want to deny the civil rights of people who don't believe like them and who use the religion as an excuse to support their own bigotry that causes the religion to be bashed.

When people start beating other people over the head with the Bible and calling them "sinners" and telling them that need to get a clue and straighten up, and that they are being rebellious and need to change there ways. It's only natural for the people who are being 'attacked' to grab the damn book and start clobbering back!

Then the original offenders start screaming personal foul and that their religion is being 'bashed' when all along they were abusing the religion to 'bash' the beliefs of others!!!

My heart goes out to people like Miguel who respects everyone’s belief. And to people like Eljay and other respectable upstanding Christians.

But I have absolutely no respect at all for the ignorant arrogant Bible thumpers who abuse their religion to ram their own bigoted prejudiced opinions down the throats of others in the name of God. They are the ultimate blastphemists. A sin which is truly unforgivable.

If all Christians would preach the LOVE and ACCEPTANCE that Christ taught I would bow down in admiration to their organized religion, even if I still did not believe it myself.

However, as long as the arrogant fundamentalists continue to insist on using the religion to push their own egotistical views onto others I will continue to push back.

What really surprises me is that while the good Christians don’t like to see the Bible being questioned or “bashed” they never speak out against the people who abuse their very own religion by claiming to be Christians when in fact they are just egotistical pigs on a mission to abuse Christ!

Why is that?

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Free will. God can't prevent evil because if He does so, he would be interfering with free will, He would become in a tyrannical God. And not the the loving Father He is.
He loves you, even when you desperately try to argue against Him.

Free will is no excuse.

There are other pictures of God in which free will is possible without any concept of 'sin'.

It just isn't necessary. And if humans can come up with better scenarios to handle free will, then surely an all-wise could could come up with an even better scheme.

Free will simply doesn't require judgement and damnation to exist. Period.

It's just not a valid "excuse".

If you want to believe in something on faith, then do so.

Trying to justify it to other people shouldn't be req'd.

Or, is God not willing to acceed to mans' impertinent desire to control his own destiny?

So...your saying it CAN prevent evil, but chooses not to...for free will, or anyother reason.

But if anything is possible with god (like 2+2=5 nd by getting my mind out of it's box) Wouldn't it be then possible to have free will with no evil?

Or like 2+2=5...is it impossible? If, so then with god...not everything is possible. Then why call him god.

abra, god dont need to make excuses for his actions. we do.

jarhead, it was not only this thread i was referring to, just the one i chose to post in b/c it was at the top of the thread list. i respect everyone's right to choose what they believe, i just dont agree in the same way you dont agree with my beliefs. i hope everyone has a wonderfully blessed day. i have to go take care of my son.

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my dear James, I hope u r doing fine.

You see it's impossible to exist in a reality without balance.
In order to be balance there must exist two poles one positive and one negative (i should not even have to tell u this u r an eminent mathmatician u know this better than me)
Applying this there must be evil to justify the existance of good.
Human beings are in the middle of that balance of forces.
But in order to know what is good or bad, there must be a reference frame, which is the bible, at least for me (then again i'm not trying to convert anybody, it's not my purpose, my only purpose is to inform what i believe).
Without a law how would u keep a society under control, how would a person know what to do or don't.
Then again the problem comes when people try to rationalize something that is suppose to be felt from the heart.

Would it be possible to live in a society where anybody can kill, rape, etc somebody else without a set of rules saying what is acceptable and what is not?

I don't think so, but it was you that said,"anything" was possible with a god.

2+2=4 (true)

4=5 = god?
Free will + No evil = God?

So is this anything possible with a god, or not?

2+2 = 4, even for God. God's power is limited by paradox and his character. 2+2 always equals four. A square has four sides, a triangle has three sides, God cannot create a three sided square. There is no such thing, a three sided shape is a triangle.

You cannot give free will to people and ensure that they never do evil. It's not possible. If the Tree of Knowledge hadn't been in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve would not have had free will. The possiblity for them to disobey God had to exist or they wouldn't have been truely free. What good is free will if there are no choices to make?

I still believe that anything is possible for God, I have seen it. But for this to happen you need to blindly believe in God. Otherwise known as faith.
But I have to agree with Mr. Spider. What would be the sense of free will if there is not a choice.
We would just be simply robots. I would be so bored.

Then again...either

God willing to prevent evil, and not able. Then he is not omnipotent.

He able, but not willing. Then he is malevolent.

He both able and willing. Then whence cometh evil?

He neither able nor willing. Then he is no a God.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see no other choices.

well my friend corrections have been done.
my point has been stated.

in summary when for whatever reason or life event we are not able to see God in his most simple nature, we try to find means to justify our sets of values.

then u can come, and say that through my beliefs I'm trying to justify my existance.
Well, as long as I don't interefere with your life I think I'm not doing anything wrong.

"The Bible is nothing but meaningless poetry, impossible stories, and historical fiction.

none of it is true. It’s simply mythology.

But the book we call the bible is a horrible book and for the most part, horrible moral code.

Anyhow, thought I'd warn you, I already hear the 'bible inerrancy militia' coming. Brace yourself, it will be unbelievable apologetics fireworks. I mean, it's UNBELIEVABLE what these truth owners can come up with. Worth every cent of the show ticket !!!

Blind sheep are taught to believe that the Protestant Bible is the only one that should be acknowledged.

Some God you have their Rambill. Sounds like he gets his kicks form being sadistic and controls other people to make excuses for his sadistic pleasures.

Sometimes I think religious people really exhibit how naïve they can be by trying to take some of this stuff literally!!!

The apologists have answers to every single little thing in the Bible, it has been honed to a razor's edge, a science of rebuttal, but in the end the 'supporting statements' come from the same book that causes the contention in the first place!
The motive? Manipulation! for power, for profit, for control.

I had way more faith before I got stupid and read the book,

A creator who would make it a sin to be human would have to be a moron, or a sadist!

People who suggest that we abandon reason to believe in an incomprehensible irrational mythological picture of God are total morons who don’t appreciate God’s creation one iota.

It’s utterly absurd and a sign of gross mental ineptitude to even remotely consider that God drown all human beings on the face of the earth."

these are just a few of the lines in this thread alone that bother me. i know they are not personal attacks on me, but i still dont like them. and i do understand the need to "bash" back, abra. before i became a christian, i told off a very good friend and stopped talking to him for years for pushing the bible down my throat with his enthusiasm. of course, he is the one that led me to my Savior years later, but that is another story. i just feel that i need to vent my frustration and say that i am not cut out for this type of thread. guess i am too sensitive a person. so carry on, everyone, i hope you all find what you are looking for. and please be respectful at all times, both christians and non-christians.

I’m in complete agreement with this. Most religions have this covered in their own way. What I see no need for is that WAY that it is covered in Christianity

If you take this to the ultimate extreme then an eternal heaven would require that an eternal hell exists to ‘balance’ it out.

But what kind of a God would design such a scheme as to create an eternal heaven for some at the EXPENSE of eternal damnation for others?

In my pantheistic view of the world there is no ‘eternal heaven’. All that exists is endless reincarnation. All experience the so-called “good and evil” equally. And no one is asked to experience more suffering than they can bear.

The idea of an eternal heaven at the cost of an eternal hell is simply no required. It’s just not the only way to achieve a balance. There are BETTER WAYS!



Who said anything about doing away with law?

Even many atheists have extremely good morals and sense of law.

If the only reason people are being good is because they are afraid of being punished that’s pretty sad.

I have no fear of retribution from a god. Yet I don’t do bad things. Thus, as far as I’m concerned, I’m living proof that a belief in a god is not required to have good morals.

I also happen to believe in god, but that’s not what keeps me good. I’m just a good-natured person. Contrary to the idea that all men are inherently sinful!

And I’m sure there are many others like myself.

You are correct. That is exactly what I would have to do.

I never get tired of this quote:
"Faith is believing in what you know aint true" - Mark Twain

I'm not sure I understood this quote. But if I am understanding, I'm not sure if it had much to do with the topic of - "is anything possible with god" topic. Could you please clarify?

Theodicy...

God is testing His creations to see which ones will serve Him out of a desire to serve. For this purpose, we all have free will. Evil is the natural result of free will, because it is much easier to choose to do evil than good. God does not interfere with our free will, because without it, we cannot feel love for God or each other. Removing our ability to choose evil would mean removing our free will, which would bring God's test to a close. So God allows evil, to allow a greater good, love. Because of God's love for all humankind and not just those who love him, God takes a hands-off stance on evil. God allows us to be evil, in hopes that we will come to repentance eventually. This is why saints suffer while the wicked prosper. This problem is addressed in the book of Job and God's mercy is the subject of the Book of Jonah.

First:
God offers a very simple way to get everyone saved. Which is doing good to ur brothers and sisters to your right and to your left. It can't be simpler than that. As far as I know, and as far as I have lived my own life.

I don't believe in re-encarnation, so it would be worhtless for me to argue that.

Second:
I have stated to many times, that I try really hard to do God's will, and His commands because my love for my heavenly Daddy, regardless of eternal damnation.
Just to be clear i do believe in eternal damnation, in the same way as i believe in eternal salvation