I was trying to help you with the quotes. Sorry for trying to be nice, maybe I should just insult you every time you post, that seems to be how you like to treat others. I hope you aren't this way in real life, you would be a terrible boss and co-worker.

Have you no sense of humour 'spider' sweetheart ?!?!?

And what is this 'tihs'!!! You know me enough to know I make a terrific boss. Anyway that's what they all tell me!!! And a good number have been around for more then 20 years. So please 'sweets' don't go insulting your friends out of spite like that.

Lighten up spider. I know you get points in 'fundie' classes for every fabricated events of persecution, but you're pushing a tad here 'sweetie'!!!

'Frogs-in', and 'Frogs-off'!!!

Come on sweetheart, look at your colourful poster 'pic'. If you can't see the humour in that inoffensive line, I strongly recommend you leave your computer, and go pour yourself a hot bath!!!

voileazur,

If I were as stupid as you seem to think I am, I wouldn't be able to read. You were being sarcastic and insulting and it wasn't called for.

Spidercmb,

Don't you ever listen and follow sound advice from friends!!!

'FROG-OFF' from the computer NOW!!! AND GO POUR YOURSELF A BATH!!! IT'S AN ORDER!

And chuck this one up to TOUGH LOVE!!!

As one who has "issues" with God I have to say I'm not trying to "God" bash.For my own part anyway.Like most people I want a straight answer.Is there,or is there not a higher being? If there is,then He needs to clean up the mess his toys are making of the world.And if there isn't then that's one less excuse for war.War is not pretty,War is not glory,War is not a vacation.People die.Soldiers die.Innocents die.And isn't that one more reason to find out just what exactly is going on with the "God" question? Millions of people have died by simply giving the wrong answer to the God question? "Do you believe in God?" "No." (BANG) Dead... "Do you believe in God?" "Yes." "Do you believe in my God?" "No." (BANG) Dead...-apologies to George Carlin.His bit. But makes a point. Christians,Muslims,Jews,all making war on each other simply because they want their God to win. And if anyone wishes to inquire about my loss of faith then they may e-mail me. It's not something I'd just post out there for all to see just yet.And I don't think that many people would want to know.

Tasselhoff,

I agree.

As long as man wants to play with his toys, he's not focused on a conversation with a Holy God,(that as a gentleman would expect,) in which one must be prepared to give Him one's undivided attention.

Well I was refering to God and his toys (mankind) actually. If He created the world look what we're doing to it. ALL of us. So until there is a definative answer to the God question.I'll just play it by ear and see how it goes. Besides I think John the Baptist would put in a good word for the pagans anyway since he's often depicted around animals and dressed all foresty..if the Bible is truth.

But that's kinda to my point, Tasselhoff.

Did He tell you that we are his toys, or did someone else quote him on that?

Maybe that is putting the white on the noise in your soul and spirit.

Catch my drift?

The kids at Columbine only killed the people who said that they believed in God. Atheist governments have killed more people than all relgions combined. Check a copy of Guiness Book of World Records.

Well, I was not one to get into the depth of gramatical structure in my youth, and most of my foreys into it have been from the perspective of a theatrical context - so my approach to this is rather simplistic. In Gen 1:1 it begins "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." He does so through Gen 2:4, at which point it says "This is the account of the Heavens and the earth when they were created." So - we now have the order of things. From Gen 2:5 it begins to get more specific concerning the creature called "man". He now is known as Adam. References of plants, animals, etc are all noted as "had planted... had formed..., etc". So it follows that one could see this as merely referencing Gen 1:1 - Gen 2:4, or one could force it to be a continuum of this section, and see a second creation, out of order with the first. Is this a proven contradiction on the second part? To me - it just isn't. It follows that the idea of a contradiction is proven by the reference through interpretation, rather than concluding it is through exegesis.



True - it could be seen that way - but that doesn't negate the alternate perspective. It is rather like a 2 dimentional perspective of a spiral. When viewed in the mind as a cone - does the point approach the viewer or is he at it's base with the point moving away? Who can say?



Kerry

You know I can't speak for what others do on the threads. Often times I see a zeal to represent the alternative interpretation, not forsaking the possibility of duality based on perception and understanding. As to the absolute claim of truth - that's just being a tad over zealuos at times. Perception is often subjective - and formulating an opinion does not necessarily mean it is supported with fact. Sometimes experience is all that is needed to form an opinion - and that is always subjective. I know too that you are not a careless poster in your objections. The inconsistancies within the Christian community over exegesis is often enough to keep people at arms length when it comes to accepting interpretation as representative of the truth. I've been witness to a number of "sermons" by cultic ministers who's interpretations baffle me - despite the appearance of scriptural "proof". It can be difficult avoiding circular reasoning when substanciating logical proofs with - what can be argued as questionable premises based on subjective interpretation. It is why I don't readily dismiss perceptions of inconsistancies by professed non-Christians, just because I see it interpreted a little differently. I can only add my perspective - or challenge logic when I think it is derived through fallacy. I do - however believe that a person represents a Christian by how they live their lives, and not by what they claim. It helps me to not confuse the issue of a religion and it's "truthfullness" with the adherants to claim to represent it.

hi I just want ad a few things.

reading all of these comments I can say that you are right in a lot of things.

do not force christianity onto people for that is the fastest way to push them away, just offer a piece and if the bite offer them more. if the do not bite then show by example and say not more.

it is good to quote the bible but make sure you know what you are talking about. don't confuse the old testiment with then new.

just because you don't understand something does not make it less true. if you study the entire bible you will find that it is very consistant and explains itself in many different ways that mean the same thing to make sure every one can understand it. if you don't understand a certian passage then keep studying and you will figure out the answere when god knows you are ready.

I leave you with this, allways follow what the bible says over your church. gods word is allways right but mans is inconsistant.

God bless

Again, simple evasiveness. Try using a more complete Dictionary, if for no other reason than to assure yourself that your aqcuiesence isn't arbitrarily semantic.

Why would nescience be equal to ignorance by definition, and yet exist as ameans of description for the same thing?

That would clearly be ignorant, don't you think?


wouldee,

Dude,

Come on, man!? What are we debating?

It's a dictionary. It was the first dictionary I looked at. I was ignorant of the words meaning, the definition I was given didn't make sense, so I looked it up. It was just a little due-diligence, on my part.

A dictionary is simply a book where we find an "agreed" meaning to word. This is just so people don't run around creating their own definitions, and so we all know what the heck each other are talking about.

wouldee,

Dude,

Come on, man!? What are we debating?

It's a dictionary. It was the first dictionary I looked at. I was ignorant of the words meaning, the definition I was given didn't make sense, so I looked it up. It was just a little due-diligence, on my part.

A dictionary is simply a book where we find an "agreed" meaning to word. This is just so people don't run around creating their own definitions, and so we all know what the heck each other are talking about.




YUP!!!

Never intended to be a critical snare to you.

But rather, open your understanding to an alternative supposition.

Intent being, on being helpful in your search for truth by extending a hypothetical that allows further objectivity to be entertained in the observance of ones own soul and its play on our lives.

Sometimes, my humor is lost in the conveyance of my attentions.

I apologize for the unintended distraction that I may have engendered upon your dignity in pursuing acknowledgement of your concerns.

Ok, I can grok that because of what I do for a living-- there are a lot of pitfalls in representing three dimensional objects with 2D drawings, but the good engineer knows this and uses different views, such as cross sections to express out hidden features. Such drawings often specify the perspective used in agreed-upon language/techniques, such as third angle projection. But that's spelled out on the print, along with a simple illustration demonstrating it as well as specifying it-- often, using a cone. Even then, it's usually wise to add a line in the notes: "If in doubt, ask."

Trouble is, in these matters, the Chief Engineer(s) is (are) nowhere to be found. Ergo, we make our best guess and hope the hidden features are were drawn correctly. But we also rely on our experiences of what the finished product is supposed to do.

And too often, the interpretations of the Bible that attempt to explain away the inconsistencies are like the M.C. Escher drawing entitled 'Drawing Hands'- perfectly natural-looking representations of 'impossible realities'. Better still, is his 'Ascending and Descending' in which it appears that an endless loop of people are both ascending and descending a stairway. Your brain just drinks in the contradiction as thinks "It's quite perfectly obvious!" Until, alas, one tries to build it-- whereupon one finds it quite obviously impossible.

Quirks of perception- they'll get you everytime.




And to be sure, I've known my share of atheists who were just as cocksure and zealous promoters of "The One Truth". Fundies in their own right, one might say.

Me, I'm too busy trying to dream up better questions to be that sort of extremist. I just think there's too much potential genius in the Universe which can't be captured by lines drawn in the sand saying 'Just this, and only this.' So when someone beats that drum, I tend to tune them out and keep searching for the sheet music that has the counterpoint penciled in.


-Kerry O.

the only reason peaple find inconsistancies in the bible is because the missinterpriat what they read, usually caused from reading out of context. how ever study the bibble lon enough and it will all come together, but you have to study the whole bible not just bits and pieces because if you don't it is only because you don't want to prove what deep in your heart you know is true.

yah thats certainly true. Ive read the entire book mabe 8 times, and though i consider myself well versed, (no pun intended) I am aware that there is a lot more to learn and that i dont have all the answers. My search has always been for Bible truth rather than trying to support someones opinion, or church doctrine. if we look at it with a truly open mind, and with prayer for guidance, the Lord will lead you straight to the truth. Also, i have found that the more i read of it, the more i fall in love with the word.

well thats all good rambill that it makes you "feel" good,but you said at the start you would dispel all inconsistencies. I think it is obvious you failed at that task.

Scorpio thank you......your answer is right on.....I think if you read the bible every day for 100 years there would be so much more to learn. I love to take intense bible studies and take a book and get to the meat of it....take it line for line to really understand what the Creator was saying....it's intense.

rabbit... havent heard any inconsistancies yet... just bickering. (although i admit that i havent been following all the posts)

I got to hand it to you Bill.

If you started this thread for the purpose of displaying to others a perfect example of BLIND faith, you've certainly set an example of perfection.

To be perfectly blind ladies and gentlemen all we need do is close our minds and pretend to see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil.

Congratulations Bill you win a lifetime supply of Rolos!

Lee and Sherrie are going to be so JEALOUS!!!

And the Pharaoh’s hardened heart goes out to you as well!