no one is disputing that God doesn't exist as a delusion ....


why would you believe that? ...when it only takes one mosquito to kill you


How Rude ... but anyway as i first stated 'Free Will' only applies to magical things ...so allow me to answer your other questions using your magical god to display why you lack "Free Will"


for the sake of argument ..if your  God was speeding over the limit what consequences would he have to pay


if your god were being prosecuted for stealing what  consequences would he have to pay

as you see perhaps only magical things like your God can attest to having "Free Will' ..... 


perhaps you stole candy because you had no money and low blood sugar ...perhaps you were speeding because you had to hurry home to take a dump ...low blood sugar and a dump falls (no pun intended) under the laws of physics


wow... thanks...because that's a perfect example of you taking away someone's Free Will/Freedom simply because they do not believe as you do ...and that's the same type of threats that "Free Will" offer and why it only applies to God ... .....believe or be tossed away for all eternity .... 


like putting them in a padded cell and tossing away the keys for all eternity ...

Oh?
You mean priests, pastors, rabbis and those icons of religion that think they know what is best for you and how you should think and live.
Got it.
I agree.



Wonderful reference use.

That needs to be proven. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

Does Reality Count?

Weird how u say it is unkown, it means u dont know it
Yet u are so sure it is god

What do u mean? How is reality a proof?

all of your answers were already a part of your loaded questions. but in all seriousness, the person who believes they cannot survive the jungle, a person who believes God is a delusion, a person who tears others down and only gives negative answers, is a person who is shallow and has nt much depth to them at all. basically, you are a joke!!

tell me which priest or pastor ever was the President of the USA? today, we go to science for many answers. according to the POLL designed and referred to as the truest Poll, the Poll ran by scientists themselves, the Pew Research Poll claims the majority of those classified as scientists SUFFER from several forms of Psychological Disorders.


if the majority of those within Science (scientists themselves) SUFFER from 1 or more known cases of PD's, that means their views on life in general as a whole is SKEWED compared to someone who would NOT SUFFER from PD's ...and giving them added DELUSIONS, and other idealisms that are honestly INSANE when compared to someone who does not suffer.

BUT, it's the ones who SUFFER w-h-o-m we are going to for our answers...

that does not get any more "MESSED UP" than that!!

even Trump is clearly insane. he is not just a 1% thinking better of himself, but he literally is mentally ILL!! he is making decisions right now effecting and affecting FARMERS that eventually bring higher COSTS to us!!

when the INSANE RULE, the TRULY SANE SUFFER!!

like we are now with the combination of Science and our World Leaders!!

Tom,

a real true priest or pastor is only telling people how to do things by how they can see was given in example through Yeshua. even the Ancient Greeks, Muslims, Mesopotamians, Romans, and others that chose to historically factually write about this person of Yeshua, they all wrote about the things that intrigued them most...Yeshua cared, did great miracles, He represented something that other Faith based Paths did not, a reality with a touch of humanity. every Ancient writer from that era and general location wrote that He did things no other person, magician, soothsayer could ever do. they wrote about the things He spoke about on how to live, how to see others, how to become a child of God's Kingdom, He lived it every day. He breathed it, slept it, spoke it, wrote it, taught it, instructed it, because He was "IT!!"

and if these pastors and priests could ever get to the point of just discussing these things that Yeshua did, and try to encourage that how Yeshua lived was good because ultimately He did claim He died for "ALL of US" past, present, and still to come.

but Tom,
if preachers and pastors got to that point, it still takes those non believers, those of different views, those of different beliefs, it would take all of them to want to be better to make this world better.

and honestly, society as a whole, today, sucks donkey balls. when i let a person cut in line before me the other day, because i had more items than he did, he made it a point in front of others to thank me and tell me how that just no longer happens today. even by me being practical, it allowed someone to see a view of me that was positive. this man was easily late 50's early 60's. he kept speaking and i finally said it also had much to do with my upbringing and my own personal beliefs. the man did not go to church, never was a part of it, had friends in them, but had no interest, suddenly chose a biker tattooed looking goofball to accept the invite to go to church from. and he did come and again. time will tell how if he remains, if he chooses to believe, what he chooses to do one way or another. but for now, he affirms he likes what he has seen, heard, taught, and how others are being treated as he thought people should be.

i totally get your point about what we can see as of this moment pertaining to pastors and priests.

it really was not supposed to be that way.

even how the Greeks wrote about Yeshua and His followers, it was written with passion because Christ was the "Real Deal." and the Greeks wrote what they saw, what they were hearing rumored, what travellers were claiming. Yeshua was the electricity source and He flipped the switch that caught Everyone's Attention!!

that is what pastors and priests should be teaching those who follow Christ!!

I'm not sold on all this Yeshua business
If it does it for you, fair enough
And I admit, I haven't read all of these ancient writings
But isn't he mentioned in both the Torah and the Koran
And don't both of those religions not believe that he died and came again, and not believe, that he was the son of god.
Don't they just believe, that he was a prophet

And on a slightly separate note, what about the Aborigines, for example. I'm not an expert on their culture or ancient writings, but, no mention of him there me thinks
Or what about China? Is he mentioned there? I think not
Did Yeshua deliberately miss these people out?
Or are their beliefs in fact, far older, than when whoever it was, started a new religion, which even I know, bears little resemblance to the 1 it started as, no more beliefs in animism and such

And another thing, how can you possibly have so much faith in these writings, when we know, that countless books , as well as people, were burned, by the church
Who then formed committees and decided, just exactly what the hymn sheet should look like

Hey, if it makes your life happier, great

For me, there's just too many people trying to pull the wool over my / other peoples eyes, and they can't give a straight answer, so I smell a con. That's not to say, I don't have some beliefs myself. But don't you find that some people get drunk on religion, the same way some get drunk on pride!? It's almost like scripture quoting and interpretation of an Olympic standard. Here come the Lutherans coming up on the inside, as the Orthodox Jews stay steadfastly at the back of the pack, probably saving themselves for the last sprint, as the Methodists , catholics and Anglicans are neck and neck, we're coming up the finish line, but what's this? Confusicious , Ganesha, Odin, and a giant turtle over take them all hand in hand across the finish line, just as Isis reloads the starter pistol and takes aim at their what's its

yes. Muslims wrote about Him (the 3 wise Men mentioned were Muslim origin). and much of the Hebrew Old Testament took place in what is known today as Muslim Territory. Muslims and Hebrews, later Jews are all related, as we are all related from a common ancestor.

the Koran does mention many things that speak of Yeshua being more than a prophet, but the Muslim Faith has chosen to interpret it the way they have.

and the Jews denied His existence because He told them He was "I AM," the Name of their God.

but in the Torah of that day it mentioned Him several times. later versions have only mentioned He was hanged because of Treason.

the upside is, the Torah with more mentioned was a nice find because it unveiled how the Pharisee/Scribe sect of the Jews were trying to hide that Yeshua ever existed.

when i say Muslims, Jews, Greeks, Romans of that day keeping historical record, I mean Mesopotamia in general as the entire land mass area and its people were privy to Yeshua.


now, i know what Yeshua's real message was then and is still for today and beyond.

the fact OTHERS do not interpret or have the right resources to interpret scripture correctly and it causes them to kill witches, to kill writers, to create a system of human slavery based upon race only shows a difference between those seeking the Word of God for His Will vs seeking for their own personal gain.


either way, if you toss me into that same category, shows you are unaware there is a grave difference between the two.

The "wise" men were't Muslims as Islam didn't exist in time of Yeshua, it came about 400yrs later.

Here is what is known about those characters who visited Yeshua at his birth:
Melchior hailed from Persia, Gaspar (also called "Caspar" or "Jaspar") from India, and Balthazar from Arabia.
Their gifts had special symbolic meanings as well: gold signified Yeshua's status as King of the Jews. Frankincense represented the infant's divinity and identity as the Son of God. Myrrh touched upon Jesus' mortality.


This was just a parenthesis in this debate...carry on

also,


in that day before Yeshua became such a Force to be Reckoned with they plotted to murder Him, there were TWO ABRAHAMIC FAITHS.

in both the Torah and Koran, ABRAHAM is the Father of both beliefs.

it's all ONE BELIEF, but as time passed and the peoples separated into 2 groups, the Muslims kept with what they learned From Abraham, Ishmael, and Abraham's children by his wife Ketorah after Sarah died.

the names of those sons are mountain ranges in Muslim Territory today.

two people claimed to be sons and daughters of Abraham. one followed what Abraham and his sons taught them and the other followed the Mosaic Law.

Yeshua came to remove the Law and establish the beliefs as ONE for all peoples, not just Muslim or Hebrew.

correct, i use the term Muslim as reference to where they come from, but no one called those people Muslim back then.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Matthew 5:17

Nuance...


I'll stop here or it's gonna get ugly

my favorite verse in Luke is Yeshua saying, i suppose you think i come to bring Peace, NAY, i come to bring Division!!

no, i like what you are doing. because Paul claimed he was being personally led by Yeshua during Paul's entire ministry, it gives us NUANCE to believe knowing (after the fact) that the Law was abolished by the following of Christ.

and Paul, who was a wealthy child and whose own father was a Pharisee, had the very best education of that day and Paul's own Law Professor was classified as the best of that time and before that time in his knowledge of the Law.

so Paul, followed the Law, obeyed the Law, lived and forced the Law became a person claiming what he spoke and wrote was first told to him by Yeshua. and that he was repeating Yeshua to us which would be 25 years AFTER YESHUA'S DEATH..

Paul would later teach to abolish the Law.

but if Paul is doing what Yeshua is directing and telling him to do, then it is technically Yeshua WHO is abolishing the Law by direction of Paul.

i'm hoping that response was not taken as a smart *** response but as an informative one.


basically, Yeshua, who claimed to be God in human form, was killed, buried, and then claims and even by Ancient historians confirming Yeshua Resurrected and made several appearances before "Ascending..."
...
blinded Paul on a mission where Law breakers were found and Paul was going to be judge-jury-executioner for almost 2 weeks.

during this time, Paul writes, Yeshua explains this is Yeshua who you are hearing in your mind. you who know the Law, are the BEST LAWYER, are going to now follow Me and do what i want for direction of my Followers and followers to come.

and eventually, Yeshua would lead Paul, the best attorney around, truest of all Pharisees, could recite the Torah forward and backwards, educated beyond norm to "Abolish the Mosaic Law!!"

God got himself the best Lawyer and today there is no Mosaic Law!!

I don't know about all that... I'm not a Paul-ian, I'm a Christ-ian
Between Paul and Yeshua there wouldn't be a choice for me, it's Yeshua's teaching over anyone else in my book (no pun intended).

To me, the Law is engraved in my mind and Yeshua's teachings are engraved in my heart. Again, to me, Law and Christ's teachings go hand in hand.

How many times did Yeshua quote the Torah in which the Law is clearly spelled out? I don't have the time to research that right now but I know He quoted it numerous times. Clearly, Yeshua held the Law in HIGH esteem and I don't see any reason why I shouldn't.

And here I am arguing over religion/Christianity/Christ when I promised myself I wouldn't do it anymore!

Please, ignore me.