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| Topic: God is NOT a loving god. | |
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Edited by
Godsfriend10
on
Wed 10/26/16 03:05 PM
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I'm not saying I believe in the existence of a god, because I don't. I'm mostly posting here because the atheist forums are practically dead, which I don't really understand. Over 200k posts in religion and 1k in atheist forums. How do so many people in the age of logic and reason still believe in the existence of a god? It is written in the bible that god is a loving god, god is a forgiving god, blah blah. But in practice, god is a vindictive god, god is a childish god and god is a cruel god. The whole story about Noah's ark is basically a story about a god that got mad, threw a childish temper tantrum and killed everyone on the planet save a boatload of people and animals. Does that really seem like an all knowing god of great wisdom to anyone? If anyone has seen the movie "machine gun preacher". There's a movie based on the real life of Sam Childers, a biker that found religion after he thought he killed a man then traveling to Africa and helping to save a bunch of children from a corrupt warlord. On to my point. In the movie(based on real life) you see a bunch of children in a pile that were torched to death because they tried to escape. Was that all part of gods plan, did god "love" these children in their final minutes as they were brutally burned to death and screaming? Seems like a damned sadistic god to me. Basically what I'm saying is that if god does exist, he's pretty much using us as lab rats in his psychological experiment. All of the good stuff and "miracles" that he's let happen really do pale in comparison to all the atrocities that he's turned a blind eye to all in favor of fulfilling his "divine plan". In my honest opinion the novelty of "god" died off in the 20th century. I think that many of us are smart enough to come to the realization that the invention of a god in inevitable because we all fear death and therefore invent the prospect of an afterlife, and who would be powerful enough to design such a thing? "God" and only that. But all that is self defeating, instead of confronting our fear of death and helping to seek a method of prolonging our lives through science, we run to religion which has a long standing history of stifling science. Many people will argue the existence of a god because they feel that they've seen him in one manner or another. His face is on a door, his face was on a grilled cheese sandwich or the classic "I see it in the miracles that happen every day". Such as what? Newborn life? Every time a baby is born it's a "miracle". Well what about those born into third world countries that starve to death before they're old enough to read or what about those born into overpopulous that struggle through their entire life just trying to make ends meet(because it's a rat race just to get a job)then ultimately succumb to suicide. Was there really a point in either of those being born just to live a life of pain and suffering with no chance for a happy ending? Or perhaps people will argue the "miracles" of rain or the sun coming up each day. Nope, the sun is a giant ball of gas and the rain is just precipitation. God exists because like an imaginary friend when we have no other, we want him to exist and if we stop believing, he will not exist. When God created mankind He created us complete with a brain so we can think properly as human, plan and decide to which I believe that we us human are responsible with our individual right or wrong doing... Whether you believe or not it's your own opinion but haven't you realized that when you said here that God is blah blah blah it already proven that you believe that God really exist... It's just that... With whatever wrong doing mankind has done God is the one to blame as what you're saying when obviously it's not God who did it... Is human really created to put finger or put the blame on others? This is such a pity to us then IF god did exist in his all powerful form as people suggest then he easily has the power to intervene on all the wrongdoings but instead sits around and does nothing. He's like a police officer that sits there and watches murder happen in front of him and does nothing. Useless.. He watches people get brutally tortured until their minds are warped to pure evil on a daily basis and does nothing. Heck, according to the bible those people then end up getting punished with a trip directly to hell upon their death. As stated in the OP, IF he did exist, he's not a loving god and I'd go so far as to say the worlds biggest a--hole. If God were to wield all His powers you and your master will accuse Him of abuse. However,He had set a day to judge all the actions of Man --and that of your master and his defeated clique (Revelations 20 v 11-12) But now is time of Gods mercy and grace through Jesus Christ. He is a loving God. |
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I'm not saying I believe in the existence of a god, because I don't. I'm mostly posting here because the atheist forums are practically dead, which I don't really understand. Over 200k posts in religion and 1k in atheist forums. How do so many people in the age of logic and reason still believe in the existence of a god? It is written in the bible that god is a loving god, god is a forgiving god, blah blah. But in practice, god is a vindictive god, god is a childish god and god is a cruel god. The whole story about Noah's ark is basically a story about a god that got mad, threw a childish temper tantrum and killed everyone on the planet save a boatload of people and animals. Does that really seem like an all knowing god of great wisdom to anyone? If anyone has seen the movie "machine gun preacher". There's a movie based on the real life of Sam Childers, a biker that found religion after he thought he killed a man then traveling to Africa and helping to save a bunch of children from a corrupt warlord. On to my point. In the movie(based on real life) you see a bunch of children in a pile that were torched to death because they tried to escape. Was that all part of gods plan, did god "love" these children in their final minutes as they were brutally burned to death and screaming? Seems like a damned sadistic god to me. Basically what I'm saying is that if god does exist, he's pretty much using us as lab rats in his psychological experiment. All of the good stuff and "miracles" that he's let happen really do pale in comparison to all the atrocities that he's turned a blind eye to all in favor of fulfilling his "divine plan". In my honest opinion the novelty of "god" died off in the 20th century. I think that many of us are smart enough to come to the realization that the invention of a god in inevitable because we all fear death and therefore invent the prospect of an afterlife, and who would be powerful enough to design such a thing? "God" and only that. But all that is self defeating, instead of confronting our fear of death and helping to seek a method of prolonging our lives through science, we run to religion which has a long standing history of stifling science. Many people will argue the existence of a god because they feel that they've seen him in one manner or another. His face is on a door, his face was on a grilled cheese sandwich or the classic "I see it in the miracles that happen every day". Such as what? Newborn life? Every time a baby is born it's a "miracle". Well what about those born into third world countries that starve to death before they're old enough to read or what about those born into overpopulous that struggle through their entire life just trying to make ends meet(because it's a rat race just to get a job)then ultimately succumb to suicide. Was there really a point in either of those being born just to live a life of pain and suffering with no chance for a happy ending? Or perhaps people will argue the "miracles" of rain or the sun coming up each day. Nope, the sun is a giant ball of gas and the rain is just precipitation. God exists because like an imaginary friend when we have no other, we want him to exist and if we stop believing, he will not exist. When God created mankind He created us complete with a brain so we can think properly as human, plan and decide to which I believe that we us human are responsible with our individual right or wrong doing... Whether you believe or not it's your own opinion but haven't you realized that when you said here that God is blah blah blah it already proven that you believe that God really exist... It's just that... With whatever wrong doing mankind has done God is the one to blame as what you're saying when obviously it's not God who did it... Is human really created to put finger or put the blame on others? This is such a pity to us then IF god did exist in his all powerful form as people suggest then he easily has the power to intervene on all the wrongdoings but instead sits around and does nothing. He's like a police officer that sits there and watches murder happen in front of him and does nothing. Useless.. He watches people get brutally tortured until their minds are warped to pure evil on a daily basis and does nothing. Heck, according to the bible those people then end up getting punished with a trip directly to hell upon their death. As stated in the OP, IF he did exist, he's not a loving god and I'd go so far as to say the worlds biggest a--hole. Only seen that way through eyes that only see this world. This world is temporary, everything that happens, happened, happening, or will happen on this Earth is merely temporary. It's a trail period towards eternity. He's not just sitting back doing nothing my friend. All will reap what they sow, good or bad in due time. Again, this world is but temporary. Going on the general age area, 70 years on this Earth is but a blink of an eye compared to eternity. So what's the big deal some bad things may happen in between those 70 years when it's followed by an eternity of being personally in the paradise with our Father? Or if that 14-70 years is utter crap and warps your mind to evil then you get eternity in hell(apparently), suffering and screaming in eternal torment but god loves us all equally and that's why we have such an uneven chance of making it into heaven. There's those of us that get kicked into the dirt on a daily basis and those of us that get a free ride through life on daddy's cash and have amazing looks and charisma and were born into the family that follows the correct religion, since there's like, 20+ religions all conflicting with one another so it's like a lotery to see if you can get the right one and follow it well enough to make it into 'heaven'. Like I said, the bible and religion in general contradicts itself a stupid number of times. Religion was just invented by those in power to keep the people docile. Do good and you get to go to heaven, be good and Santa will bring you what you want. Only difference between Santa and god is that one gets debunked once we reach a certain age and the other doesn't get officially debunked until after we're dead. Or if that 14-70 years is utter crap and warps your mind to evil then you get eternity in hell(apparently), suffering and screaming in eternal torment but god loves us all equally and that's why we have such an uneven chance of making it into heaven. Incorrect "Hell" is nothing more then the grave basically. Some translations translate where it says hell into grave, others don't. Some translate grave into hell in places, others don't. Hell is but a holding place, it is the grave. That's why Jesus spent 3 days in hell. Matthew 12:40 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. In the following verse, notice hell gives up the dead for judgement, thus being in hell prior to judgement. Revelation 20:13 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Then we have the following verse that shows my point of hell not being eternal. Revelation 20:14/15 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. There is no eternal torment. You either receive eternal life through Jesus Christ and not of one's own doing. Or receive eternal death. No torment/torture or anything of such. |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Wed 10/26/16 03:32 PM
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I'm not saying I believe in the existence of a god, because I don't. I'm mostly posting here because the atheist forums are practically dead, which I don't really understand. Over 200k posts in religion and 1k in atheist forums. How do so many people in the age of logic and reason still believe in the existence of a god? It is written in the bible that god is a loving god, god is a forgiving god, blah blah. But in practice, god is a vindictive god, god is a childish god and god is a cruel god. The whole story about Noah's ark is basically a story about a god that got mad, threw a childish temper tantrum and killed everyone on the planet save a boatload of people and animals. Does that really seem like an all knowing god of great wisdom to anyone? If anyone has seen the movie "machine gun preacher". There's a movie based on the real life of Sam Childers, a biker that found religion after he thought he killed a man then traveling to Africa and helping to save a bunch of children from a corrupt warlord. On to my point. In the movie(based on real life) you see a bunch of children in a pile that were torched to death because they tried to escape. Was that all part of gods plan, did god "love" these children in their final minutes as they were brutally burned to death and screaming? Seems like a damned sadistic god to me. Basically what I'm saying is that if god does exist, he's pretty much using us as lab rats in his psychological experiment. All of the good stuff and "miracles" that he's let happen really do pale in comparison to all the atrocities that he's turned a blind eye to all in favor of fulfilling his "divine plan". In my honest opinion the novelty of "god" died off in the 20th century. I think that many of us are smart enough to come to the realization that the invention of a god in inevitable because we all fear death and therefore invent the prospect of an afterlife, and who would be powerful enough to design such a thing? "God" and only that. But all that is self defeating, instead of confronting our fear of death and helping to seek a method of prolonging our lives through science, we run to religion which has a long standing history of stifling science. Many people will argue the existence of a god because they feel that they've seen him in one manner or another. His face is on a door, his face was on a grilled cheese sandwich or the classic "I see it in the miracles that happen every day". Such as what? Newborn life? Every time a baby is born it's a "miracle". Well what about those born into third world countries that starve to death before they're old enough to read or what about those born into overpopulous that struggle through their entire life just trying to make ends meet(because it's a rat race just to get a job)then ultimately succumb to suicide. Was there really a point in either of those being born just to live a life of pain and suffering with no chance for a happy ending? Or perhaps people will argue the "miracles" of rain or the sun coming up each day. Nope, the sun is a giant ball of gas and the rain is just precipitation. God exists because like an imaginary friend when we have no other, we want him to exist and if we stop believing, he will not exist. When God created mankind He created us complete with a brain so we can think properly as human, plan and decide to which I believe that we us human are responsible with our individual right or wrong doing... Whether you believe or not it's your own opinion but haven't you realized that when you said here that God is blah blah blah it already proven that you believe that God really exist... It's just that... With whatever wrong doing mankind has done God is the one to blame as what you're saying when obviously it's not God who did it... Is human really created to put finger or put the blame on others? This is such a pity to us then IF god did exist in his all powerful form as people suggest then he easily has the power to intervene on all the wrongdoings but instead sits around and does nothing. He's like a police officer that sits there and watches murder happen in front of him and does nothing. Useless.. He watches people get brutally tortured until their minds are warped to pure evil on a daily basis and does nothing. Heck, according to the bible those people then end up getting punished with a trip directly to hell upon their death. As stated in the OP, IF he did exist, he's not a loving god and I'd go so far as to say the worlds biggest a--hole. Only seen that way through eyes that only see this world. This world is temporary, everything that happens, happened, happening, or will happen on this Earth is merely temporary. It's a trail period towards eternity. He's not just sitting back doing nothing my friend. All will reap what they sow, good or bad in due time. Again, this world is but temporary. Going on the general age area, 70 years on this Earth is but a blink of an eye compared to eternity. So what's the big deal some bad things may happen in between those 70 years when it's followed by an eternity of being personally in the paradise with our Father? Or if that 14-70 years is utter crap and warps your mind to evil then you get eternity in hell(apparently), suffering and screaming in eternal torment but god loves us all equally and that's why we have such an uneven chance of making it into heaven. There's those of us that get kicked into the dirt on a daily basis and those of us that get a free ride through life on daddy's cash and have amazing looks and charisma and were born into the family that follows the correct religion, since there's like, 20+ religions all conflicting with one another so it's like a lotery to see if you can get the right one and follow it well enough to make it into 'heaven'. Like I said, the bible and religion in general contradicts itself a stupid number of times. Religion was just invented by those in power to keep the people docile. Do good and you get to go to heaven, be good and Santa will bring you what you want. Only difference between Santa and god is that one gets debunked once we reach a certain age and the other doesn't get officially debunked until after we're dead. Or if that 14-70 years is utter crap and warps your mind to evil then you get eternity in hell(apparently), suffering and screaming in eternal torment but god loves us all equally and that's why we have such an uneven chance of making it into heaven. Incorrect "Hell" is nothing more then the grave basically. Some translations translate where it says hell into grave, others don't. Some translate grave into hell in places, others don't. Hell is but a holding place, it is the grave. That's why Jesus spent 3 days in hell. Matthew 12:40 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. In the following verse, notice hell gives up the dead for judgement, thus being in hell prior to judgement. Revelation 20:13 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Then we have the following verse that shows my point of hell not being eternal. Revelation 20:14/15 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. There is no eternal torment. You either receive eternal life through Jesus Christ and not of one's own doing. Or receive eternal death. No torment/torture or anything of such. were born into the family that follows the correct religion, God doesn't care about "religion" my friend. He cares about a relationship with you and all the rest of us. It's a pity secular people have placed God into "religion" where it doesn't belong. Like I said, the bible and religion in general contradicts itself a stupid number of times Also incorrect. Our feeble minds and language barrier through interpretations contradicts each other. Some of the words from the ancient Hebrew are actually not understood in the bible. But are transliterated the best man knows how into the English language using context of surrounding words. That may not be translated totally correctly, as again they were translated/transliterated by mortal minds. |
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I'm not saying I believe in the existence of a god, because I don't. I'm mostly posting here because the atheist forums are practically dead, which I don't really understand. Over 200k posts in religion and 1k in atheist forums. How do so many people in the age of logic and reason still believe in the existence of a god? It is written in the bible that god is a loving god, god is a forgiving god, blah blah. But in practice, god is a vindictive god, god is a childish god and god is a cruel god. The whole story about Noah's ark is basically a story about a god that got mad, threw a childish temper tantrum and killed everyone on the planet save a boatload of people and animals. Does that really seem like an all knowing god of great wisdom to anyone? If anyone has seen the movie "machine gun preacher". There's a movie based on the real life of Sam Childers, a biker that found religion after he thought he killed a man then traveling to Africa and helping to save a bunch of children from a corrupt warlord. On to my point. In the movie(based on real life) you see a bunch of children in a pile that were torched to death because they tried to escape. Was that all part of gods plan, did god "love" these children in their final minutes as they were brutally burned to death and screaming? Seems like a damned sadistic god to me. Basically what I'm saying is that if god does exist, he's pretty much using us as lab rats in his psychological experiment. All of the good stuff and "miracles" that he's let happen really do pale in comparison to all the atrocities that he's turned a blind eye to all in favor of fulfilling his "divine plan". In my honest opinion the novelty of "god" died off in the 20th century. I think that many of us are smart enough to come to the realization that the invention of a god in inevitable because we all fear death and therefore invent the prospect of an afterlife, and who would be powerful enough to design such a thing? "God" and only that. But all that is self defeating, instead of confronting our fear of death and helping to seek a method of prolonging our lives through science, we run to religion which has a long standing history of stifling science. Many people will argue the existence of a god because they feel that they've seen him in one manner or another. His face is on a door, his face was on a grilled cheese sandwich or the classic "I see it in the miracles that happen every day". Such as what? Newborn life? Every time a baby is born it's a "miracle". Well what about those born into third world countries that starve to death before they're old enough to read or what about those born into overpopulous that struggle through their entire life just trying to make ends meet(because it's a rat race just to get a job)then ultimately succumb to suicide. Was there really a point in either of those being born just to live a life of pain and suffering with no chance for a happy ending? Or perhaps people will argue the "miracles" of rain or the sun coming up each day. Nope, the sun is a giant ball of gas and the rain is just precipitation. God exists because like an imaginary friend when we have no other, we want him to exist and if we stop believing, he will not exist. When God created mankind He created us complete with a brain so we can think properly as human, plan and decide to which I believe that we us human are responsible with our individual right or wrong doing... Whether you believe or not it's your own opinion but haven't you realized that when you said here that God is blah blah blah it already proven that you believe that God really exist... It's just that... With whatever wrong doing mankind has done God is the one to blame as what you're saying when obviously it's not God who did it... Is human really created to put finger or put the blame on others? This is such a pity to us then IF god did exist in his all powerful form as people suggest then he easily has the power to intervene on all the wrongdoings but instead sits around and does nothing. He's like a police officer that sits there and watches murder happen in front of him and does nothing. Useless.. He watches people get brutally tortured until their minds are warped to pure evil on a daily basis and does nothing. Heck, according to the bible those people then end up getting punished with a trip directly to hell upon their death. As stated in the OP, IF he did exist, he's not a loving god and I'd go so far as to say the worlds biggest a--hole. If God were to wield all His powers you and your master will accuse Him of abuse. However,He had set a day to judge all the actions of Man --and that of your master and his defeated clique (Revelations 20 v 11-12) But now is time of Gods mercy and grace through Jesus Christ. He is a loving God. "master" Yeah... Slavery, yet another horrible practice that was given the religious seal of approval. |
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I'm not saying I believe in the existence of a god, because I don't. I'm mostly posting here because the atheist forums are practically dead, which I don't really understand. Over 200k posts in religion and 1k in atheist forums. How do so many people in the age of logic and reason still believe in the existence of a god? It is written in the bible that god is a loving god, god is a forgiving god, blah blah. But in practice, god is a vindictive god, god is a childish god and god is a cruel god. The whole story about Noah's ark is basically a story about a god that got mad, threw a childish temper tantrum and killed everyone on the planet save a boatload of people and animals. Does that really seem like an all knowing god of great wisdom to anyone? If anyone has seen the movie "machine gun preacher". There's a movie based on the real life of Sam Childers, a biker that found religion after he thought he killed a man then traveling to Africa and helping to save a bunch of children from a corrupt warlord. On to my point. In the movie(based on real life) you see a bunch of children in a pile that were torched to death because they tried to escape. Was that all part of gods plan, did god "love" these children in their final minutes as they were brutally burned to death and screaming? Seems like a damned sadistic god to me. Basically what I'm saying is that if god does exist, he's pretty much using us as lab rats in his psychological experiment. All of the good stuff and "miracles" that he's let happen really do pale in comparison to all the atrocities that he's turned a blind eye to all in favor of fulfilling his "divine plan". In my honest opinion the novelty of "god" died off in the 20th century. I think that many of us are smart enough to come to the realization that the invention of a god in inevitable because we all fear death and therefore invent the prospect of an afterlife, and who would be powerful enough to design such a thing? "God" and only that. But all that is self defeating, instead of confronting our fear of death and helping to seek a method of prolonging our lives through science, we run to religion which has a long standing history of stifling science. Many people will argue the existence of a god because they feel that they've seen him in one manner or another. His face is on a door, his face was on a grilled cheese sandwich or the classic "I see it in the miracles that happen every day". Such as what? Newborn life? Every time a baby is born it's a "miracle". Well what about those born into third world countries that starve to death before they're old enough to read or what about those born into overpopulous that struggle through their entire life just trying to make ends meet(because it's a rat race just to get a job)then ultimately succumb to suicide. Was there really a point in either of those being born just to live a life of pain and suffering with no chance for a happy ending? Or perhaps people will argue the "miracles" of rain or the sun coming up each day. Nope, the sun is a giant ball of gas and the rain is just precipitation. God exists because like an imaginary friend when we have no other, we want him to exist and if we stop believing, he will not exist. When God created mankind He created us complete with a brain so we can think properly as human, plan and decide to which I believe that we us human are responsible with our individual right or wrong doing... Whether you believe or not it's your own opinion but haven't you realized that when you said here that God is blah blah blah it already proven that you believe that God really exist... It's just that... With whatever wrong doing mankind has done God is the one to blame as what you're saying when obviously it's not God who did it... Is human really created to put finger or put the blame on others? This is such a pity to us then IF god did exist in his all powerful form as people suggest then he easily has the power to intervene on all the wrongdoings but instead sits around and does nothing. He's like a police officer that sits there and watches murder happen in front of him and does nothing. Useless.. He watches people get brutally tortured until their minds are warped to pure evil on a daily basis and does nothing. Heck, according to the bible those people then end up getting punished with a trip directly to hell upon their death. As stated in the OP, IF he did exist, he's not a loving god and I'd go so far as to say the worlds biggest a--hole. Only seen that way through eyes that only see this world. This world is temporary, everything that happens, happened, happening, or will happen on this Earth is merely temporary. It's a trail period towards eternity. He's not just sitting back doing nothing my friend. All will reap what they sow, good or bad in due time. Again, this world is but temporary. Going on the general age area, 70 years on this Earth is but a blink of an eye compared to eternity. So what's the big deal some bad things may happen in between those 70 years when it's followed by an eternity of being personally in the paradise with our Father? Or if that 14-70 years is utter crap and warps your mind to evil then you get eternity in hell(apparently), suffering and screaming in eternal torment but god loves us all equally and that's why we have such an uneven chance of making it into heaven. There's those of us that get kicked into the dirt on a daily basis and those of us that get a free ride through life on daddy's cash and have amazing looks and charisma and were born into the family that follows the correct religion, since there's like, 20+ religions all conflicting with one another so it's like a lotery to see if you can get the right one and follow it well enough to make it into 'heaven'. Like I said, the bible and religion in general contradicts itself a stupid number of times. Religion was just invented by those in power to keep the people docile. Do good and you get to go to heaven, be good and Santa will bring you what you want. Only difference between Santa and god is that one gets debunked once we reach a certain age and the other doesn't get officially debunked until after we're dead. Or if that 14-70 years is utter crap and warps your mind to evil then you get eternity in hell(apparently), suffering and screaming in eternal torment but god loves us all equally and that's why we have such an uneven chance of making it into heaven. Incorrect "Hell" is nothing more then the grave basically. Some translations translate where it says hell into grave, others don't. Some translate grave into hell in places, others don't. Hell is but a holding place, it is the grave. That's why Jesus spent 3 days in hell. Matthew 12:40 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. In the following verse, notice hell gives up the dead for judgement, thus being in hell prior to judgement. Revelation 20:13 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Then we have the following verse that shows my point of hell not being eternal. Revelation 20:14/15 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. There is no eternal torment. You either receive eternal life through Jesus Christ and not of one's own doing. Or receive eternal death. No torment/torture or anything of such. were born into the family that follows the correct religion, God doesn't care about "religion" my friend. He cares about a relationship with you and all the rest of us. It's a pity secular people have placed God into "religion" where it doesn't belong. Like I said, the bible and religion in general contradicts itself a stupid number of times Also incorrect. Our feeble minds and language barrier through interpretations contradicts each other. Some of the words from the ancient Hebrew are actually not understood in the bible. But are transliterated the best man knows how into the English language using context of surrounding words. That may not be translated totally correctly, as again they were translated/transliterated by mortal minds. Even if the bible were to have been of a single language, it's a 2000 year time span, those stories got passed through so many hands that it could have begun as "suzie picked a berry" and ended as "jesus rose from the dead". And even you should know that the bible was written by the hands of man, not god, so not much in that can be trusted if any. I mean, don't get me wrong, if you want to logically follow the belief that there MIGHT be a higher being than us out there then I have no issue with that. But following the teachings of a 2000 year old fairy tale book is another. Also I don't believe you remarked as to how god has done nothing big or magical since we'd be able to capture real proof of it came around. Funny how arguments for religion tend to avoid obvious plot holes. And no, making it rain isn't god, that's explained through science on a rather basic level. You can't just look at anything that happens that we don't directly control and say "god did it!", that's silly. |
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It's funny and sad how some of us believe in God, some of us doubt God, some of us refuse the idea of God and some go as far as to mock the thought of God...and yet we find ourselves constantly trying to find proof..one of the biggest reasons why I choose to keep my faith strong in my loving God..?...it's the comfort of knowing that I might go through some hard times..and my heart breaks for so many that have never even had the little I do...but that hopeful feeling of knowing this human life is temporary and what's next is so much more beautiful than what human existence offers...yup...today my life was ruff..but my loving God...he doesn't work magic..nor does he fix my issues...he does however..gives me hope..
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Edited by
DavidM616
on
Thu 10/27/16 02:23 AM
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This infant had committed no such crimes. He was killed by God in order to punish David. That is not fair. It is unfair to an extent. This infant never faced disease, physical or emotional pain while the rest of us do. Did you really type that? REALLY?! The infant never got the chance to have sex, either. Nuff said. And, yes, GOD killed the infant. You can toy with semantics and say that David killed the child all you want, but in the end, GOD did it. Where does it state that God "killed" the infant? Again, yes he took the infants life. But that doesn't mean the infant lost that life. Again does not reference the infant being thrown into the lake of fire, so there is no reason to believe/suspect the infant isn't with God as we type these messages back and forth. More semantics. The passage that I quoted said that God "struck the child," and the child subsequently died. So...God killed the child. Whether or not you want to try to soften the blow by reading into the text a happy ending that isn't there, the fact remains that God punished the child instead of David. That's unjust. That's unloving. The point is the heinous nature of God killing an infant as a means of punishing someone else, who should have paid for his own crimes. That was more punishment towards David then the infant. I'd be interested to hear the infant's opinion on that. As previously mentioned quite a few times that infant never had to face anything foul or negative in life. Got to spend it's entire existence with the LORD in the paradise. You don't know that. It's not stated in the text, so you are "going beyond the things written." Yet David never got raise the child, or enjoy any moments there with the child. So he in fact was paying for his crimes with the emotional distress of living forever with the regret of his blasphemy which caused this too happen, the regret of being responsible for his child never experiencing a life in this world. Yet, the passage in Leviticus that I quoted for you states that the adulterer (DAVID!) should have been put to death. Since you continue to obviate my point, allow me to try an illustration: If the jury who sentenced John Wayne Gacy to death for his abominable crimes had decided instead to sentence his son Michael to death in his place, and then the judge had released Gacy on his own recognizance, would you have supported that decision? Would you have argued that that was a good decision because "Now Michael won't have to suffer all the guilt and embarrassment, not to mention possible physical abuse, because of his father's crimes. Furthermore, he might now be in Heaven with God, where there is no pain. Not even paper cuts.(Sorry, but I had to throw that in, since you used that joke earlier. I love call-back humor.) And, I'm sure that Gacy himself will be so distraught over the loss of his son that he will never murder anyone else ever again." You seem like a good guy, so I cannot imagine that you would look at the Gacy situation in that way. So, why does God get a pass? Yes, we all need blood in one way or another, but the idea that animal or human sacrifice was necessary to appease God is ridiculous. Even in the case of life-saving blood transfusions, the donor isn't SLAUGHTERED. This is nothing but primitive superstition. The sacrifices didn't "appease" God. But he allowed them as a way to fix a wrong doing by giving up something they direly needed to merely exist. Again, there were no shopping malls to run down to if they were hungry to get some food and such things as that. Isaiah 1:11 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. Jeremiah 6:20 20 To what purpose cometh there to me incense from Sheba, and the sweet cane from a far country? your burnt offerings are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet unto me. Thus why the LORD came and sacrificed himself for us all. To rid the need or the desire of man to do these sacrifices in hopes to please God in giving up something to show their compassion and regret towards their actions. Okay, I'm glad you brought that up. That's another thing. Jesus' sacrifice was not only repugnant, but it was also completely unnecessary. Think about it: Adam sinned, incurring a debt with God that no human could ever repay, because of inherited imperfection. Right? So, God has Jesus come down here, get killed, then go back home and offer the value of his shed blood in order to pay the debt to God on our behalf. So, God had his son killed in order to pay a debt to...himself! That's ridiculous! That's like: You owe me $10,000, but you don't have the money to repay me. So, I say, "Okay...because I'm SUCH a great guy, here's what I'm going to do for you, you undeserving bum. I'm going to have my daughter sell one of her kidneys on the black market, and then pay the money to myself, on your behalf. Because I'm great. Don't forget how great I am. And, how undeserving you are." (Sounds like OT Yahweh, doesn't it?) Of course...I wouldn't do that! I would just FORGIVE THE DEBT!! Hebrews 13:16 16 But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased. Thus why I assume the change in between the two covenants from sacrificing beasts, to having faith and believing in Jesus and his teachings. There should have been no need for change. This is GOD we're talking about. He should have been able to come up with the correct solution the first time. Once again I, the atheist, give God more credit than most apologists, as I can't imagine him doing much of the dumb **** he is depicted as doing in the Bible. |
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Edited by
DavidM616
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Thu 10/27/16 03:01 AM
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Like I said, the bible and religion in general contradicts itself a stupid number of times Also incorrect. Our feeble minds and language barrier through interpretations contradicts each other. Some of the words from the ancient Hebrew are actually not understood in the bible. But are transliterated the best man knows how into the English language using context of surrounding words. That may not be translated totally correctly, as again they were translated/transliterated by mortal minds. Actually, there are many contradictions in the Bible. For instance: 2 Samuel 24:1 24 And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. 1 Chronicles 21:1 21 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. You can look these passages up in an interlinear Bible and compare the Hebrew if you like. You will see that "satan"(*See footnote) is not found anywhere in the 2 Samuel passage. There are many other examples as well. But, just for the sake of argument, let's say you're right. Let's just say that all of the apparent contradictions are just that...apparent contradictions. And, these apparent contradictions are a result of "Our feeble minds and language barrier through interpretations contradicts each other. Some of the words from the ancient Hebrew are actually not understood in the bible. But are transliterated the best man knows how into the English language using context of surrounding words. That may not be translated totally correctly, as again they were translated/transliterated by mortal minds." Wouldn't an all-knowing god, who ostensibly designed our brains, our system of communication, as well as all languages, have foreseen this problem and saw to it that his all-important words were accurately preserved in a single, easy to understand language? I would certainly think so. But, then again, I expect God to act like a god. *For the record:Yes, I know that the Hebrew word we translate "satan" is not a proper name, and doesn't apply to one single entity.Still, the word doesn't appear in the 2 Samuel passage at all. It's clear that that passage attributes the manipulation to Yahweh. |
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Like I said, the bible and religion in general contradicts itself a stupid number of times Also incorrect. Our feeble minds and language barrier through interpretations contradicts each other. Some of the words from the ancient Hebrew are actually not understood in the bible. But are transliterated the best man knows how into the English language using context of surrounding words. That may not be translated totally correctly, as again they were translated/transliterated by mortal minds. Actually, there are many contradictions in the Bible. For instance: 2 Samuel 24:1 24 And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. 1 Chronicles 21:1 21 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. You can look these passages up in an interlinear Bible and compare the Hebrew if you like. You will see that "satan"(*See footnote) is not found anywhere in the 2 Samuel passage. There are many other examples as well. But, just for the sake of argument, let's say you're right. Let's just say that all of the apparent contradictions are just that...apparent contradictions. And, these apparent contradictions are a result of "Our feeble minds and language barrier through interpretations contradicts each other. Some of the words from the ancient Hebrew are actually not understood in the bible. But are transliterated the best man knows how into the English language using context of surrounding words. That may not be translated totally correctly, as again they were translated/transliterated by mortal minds." Wouldn't an all-knowing god, who ostensibly designed our brains, our system of communication, as well as all languages, have foreseen this problem and saw to it that his all-important words were accurately preserved in a single, easy to understand language? I would certainly think so. But, then again, I expect God to act like a god. *For the record:Yes, I know that the Hebrew word we translate "satan" is not a proper name, and doesn't apply to one single entity.Still, the word doesn't appear in the 2 Samuel passage at all. It's clear that that passage attributes the manipulation to Yahweh. There has been much more obvious and straight forward contradictions in the bible. God loves us all equally. God hates gays. Granted the actual bible passages may differ but the message is the same. |
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I'm not saying I believe in the existence of a god, because I don't. I'm mostly posting here because the atheist forums are practically dead, which I don't really understand. Over 200k posts in religion and 1k in atheist forums. How do so many people in the age of logic and reason still believe in the existence of a god? It is written in the bible that god is a loving god, god is a forgiving god, blah blah. But in practice, god is a vindictive god, god is a childish god and god is a cruel god. The whole story about Noah's ark is basically a story about a god that got mad, threw a childish temper tantrum and killed everyone on the planet save a boatload of people and animals. Does that really seem like an all knowing god of great wisdom to anyone? If anyone has seen the movie "machine gun preacher". There's a movie based on the real life of Sam Childers, a biker that found religion after he thought he killed a man then traveling to Africa and helping to save a bunch of children from a corrupt warlord. On to my point. In the movie(based on real life) you see a bunch of children in a pile that were torched to death because they tried to escape. Was that all part of gods plan, did god "love" these children in their final minutes as they were brutally burned to death and screaming? Seems like a damned sadistic god to me. Basically what I'm saying is that if god does exist, he's pretty much using us as lab rats in his psychological experiment. All of the good stuff and "miracles" that he's let happen really do pale in comparison to all the atrocities that he's turned a blind eye to all in favor of fulfilling his "divine plan". In my honest opinion the novelty of "god" died off in the 20th century. I think that many of us are smart enough to come to the realization that the invention of a god in inevitable because we all fear death and therefore invent the prospect of an afterlife, and who would be powerful enough to design such a thing? "God" and only that. But all that is self defeating, instead of confronting our fear of death and helping to seek a method of prolonging our lives through science, we run to religion which has a long standing history of stifling science. Many people will argue the existence of a god because they feel that they've seen him in one manner or another. His face is on a door, his face was on a grilled cheese sandwich or the classic "I see it in the miracles that happen every day". Such as what? Newborn life? Every time a baby is born it's a "miracle". Well what about those born into third world countries that starve to death before they're old enough to read or what about those born into overpopulous that struggle through their entire life just trying to make ends meet(because it's a rat race just to get a job)then ultimately succumb to suicide. Was there really a point in either of those being born just to live a life of pain and suffering with no chance for a happy ending? Or perhaps people will argue the "miracles" of rain or the sun coming up each day. Nope, the sun is a giant ball of gas and the rain is just precipitation. God exists because like an imaginary friend when we have no other, we want him to exist and if we stop believing, he will not exist. When God created mankind He created us complete with a brain so we can think properly as human, plan and decide to which I believe that we us human are responsible with our individual right or wrong doing... Whether you believe or not it's your own opinion but haven't you realized that when you said here that God is blah blah blah it already proven that you believe that God really exist... It's just that... With whatever wrong doing mankind has done God is the one to blame as what you're saying when obviously it's not God who did it... Is human really created to put finger or put the blame on others? This is such a pity to us then IF god did exist in his all powerful form as people suggest then he easily has the power to intervene on all the wrongdoings but instead sits around and does nothing. He's like a police officer that sits there and watches murder happen in front of him and does nothing. Useless.. He watches people get brutally tortured until their minds are warped to pure evil on a daily basis and does nothing. Heck, according to the bible those people then end up getting punished with a trip directly to hell upon their death. As stated in the OP, IF he did exist, he's not a loving god and I'd go so far as to say the worlds biggest a--hole. If God were to wield all His powers you and your master will accuse Him of abuse. However,He had set a day to judge all the actions of Man --and that of your master and his defeated clique (Revelations 20 v 11-12) But now is time of Gods mercy and grace through Jesus Christ. He is a loving God. "master" Yeah... Slavery, yet another horrible practice that was given the religious seal of approval. Well,your generalizations are so miscued. God loves humanity whom He created so much that He offered up Himself through His Son JESUS CHRIST to reconcile humanity back to Himself. Why was that so necessary? Man sold out himself to the devil. The wicked devil became the master of Man. You are the servant to whose bidding you do. Man has turned to the devil. Consequently, evil became the lot of humanity:wars,sufferings, poverty,sickness etc Jesus came to alleviate Man from the works of the devil. Acts 10v38 : How God anointed Jesus Christ....with Holy Ghost and with power,who went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil;for God was with Him. All oppression:sicknesses, deciet of atheism,wars,all evils,unbelief has their root in the devil. DEVIL means pioneer of all evil and falsehood, deciet,lies,sin, atheism etc So dude,oppression is from the devil,not God-He is such a loving God. |
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I'm not saying I believe in the existence of a god, because I don't. I'm mostly posting here because the atheist forums are practically dead, which I don't really understand. Over 200k posts in religion and 1k in atheist forums. How do so many people in the age of logic and reason still believe in the existence of a god? It is written in the bible that god is a loving god, god is a forgiving god, blah blah. But in practice, god is a vindictive god, god is a childish god and god is a cruel god. The whole story about Noah's ark is basically a story about a god that got mad, threw a childish temper tantrum and killed everyone on the planet save a boatload of people and animals. Does that really seem like an all knowing god of great wisdom to anyone? If anyone has seen the movie "machine gun preacher". There's a movie based on the real life of Sam Childers, a biker that found religion after he thought he killed a man then traveling to Africa and helping to save a bunch of children from a corrupt warlord. On to my point. In the movie(based on real life) you see a bunch of children in a pile that were torched to death because they tried to escape. Was that all part of gods plan, did god "love" these children in their final minutes as they were brutally burned to death and screaming? Seems like a damned sadistic god to me. Basically what I'm saying is that if god does exist, he's pretty much using us as lab rats in his psychological experiment. All of the good stuff and "miracles" that he's let happen really do pale in comparison to all the atrocities that he's turned a blind eye to all in favor of fulfilling his "divine plan". In my honest opinion the novelty of "god" died off in the 20th century. I think that many of us are smart enough to come to the realization that the invention of a god in inevitable because we all fear death and therefore invent the prospect of an afterlife, and who would be powerful enough to design such a thing? "God" and only that. But all that is self defeating, instead of confronting our fear of death and helping to seek a method of prolonging our lives through science, we run to religion which has a long standing history of stifling science. Many people will argue the existence of a god because they feel that they've seen him in one manner or another. His face is on a door, his face was on a grilled cheese sandwich or the classic "I see it in the miracles that happen every day". Such as what? Newborn life? Every time a baby is born it's a "miracle". Well what about those born into third world countries that starve to death before they're old enough to read or what about those born into overpopulous that struggle through their entire life just trying to make ends meet(because it's a rat race just to get a job)then ultimately succumb to suicide. Was there really a point in either of those being born just to live a life of pain and suffering with no chance for a happy ending? Or perhaps people will argue the "miracles" of rain or the sun coming up each day. Nope, the sun is a giant ball of gas and the rain is just precipitation. God exists because like an imaginary friend when we have no other, we want him to exist and if we stop believing, he will not exist. When God created mankind He created us complete with a brain so we can think properly as human, plan and decide to which I believe that we us human are responsible with our individual right or wrong doing... Whether you believe or not it's your own opinion but haven't you realized that when you said here that God is blah blah blah it already proven that you believe that God really exist... It's just that... With whatever wrong doing mankind has done God is the one to blame as what you're saying when obviously it's not God who did it... Is human really created to put finger or put the blame on others? This is such a pity to us then IF god did exist in his all powerful form as people suggest then he easily has the power to intervene on all the wrongdoings but instead sits around and does nothing. He's like a police officer that sits there and watches murder happen in front of him and does nothing. Useless.. He watches people get brutally tortured until their minds are warped to pure evil on a daily basis and does nothing. Heck, according to the bible those people then end up getting punished with a trip directly to hell upon their death. As stated in the OP, IF he did exist, he's not a loving god and I'd go so far as to say the worlds biggest a--hole. If God were to wield all His powers you and your master will accuse Him of abuse. However,He had set a day to judge all the actions of Man --and that of your master and his defeated clique (Revelations 20 v 11-12) But now is time of Gods mercy and grace through Jesus Christ. He is a loving God. "master" Yeah... Slavery, yet another horrible practice that was given the religious seal of approval. Well,your generalizations are so miscued. God loves humanity whom He created so much that He offered up Himself through His Son JESUS CHRIST to reconcile humanity back to Himself. Why was that so necessary? Man sold out himself to the devil. The wicked devil became the master of Man. You are the servant to whose bidding you do. Man has turned to the devil. Consequently, evil became the lot of humanity:wars,sufferings, poverty,sickness etc Jesus came to alleviate Man from the works of the devil. Acts 10v38 : How God anointed Jesus Christ....with Holy Ghost and with power,who went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil;for God was with Him. All oppression:sicknesses, deciet of atheism,wars,all evils,unbelief has their root in the devil. DEVIL means pioneer of all evil and falsehood, deciet,lies,sin, atheism etc So dude,oppression is from the devil,not God-He is such a loving God. |
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I'm not saying I believe in the existence of a god, because I don't. I'm mostly posting here because the atheist forums are practically dead, which I don't really understand. Over 200k posts in religion and 1k in atheist forums. How do so many people in the age of logic and reason still believe in the existence of a god? It is written in the bible that god is a loving god, god is a forgiving god, blah blah. But in practice, god is a vindictive god, god is a childish god and god is a cruel god. The whole story about Noah's ark is basically a story about a god that got mad, threw a childish temper tantrum and killed everyone on the planet save a boatload of people and animals. Does that really seem like an all knowing god of great wisdom to anyone? If anyone has seen the movie "machine gun preacher". There's a movie based on the real life of Sam Childers, a biker that found religion after he thought he killed a man then traveling to Africa and helping to save a bunch of children from a corrupt warlord. On to my point. In the movie(based on real life) you see a bunch of children in a pile that were torched to death because they tried to escape. Was that all part of gods plan, did god "love" these children in their final minutes as they were brutally burned to death and screaming? Seems like a damned sadistic god to me. Basically what I'm saying is that if god does exist, he's pretty much using us as lab rats in his psychological experiment. All of the good stuff and "miracles" that he's let happen really do pale in comparison to all the atrocities that he's turned a blind eye to all in favor of fulfilling his "divine plan". In my honest opinion the novelty of "god" died off in the 20th century. I think that many of us are smart enough to come to the realization that the invention of a god in inevitable because we all fear death and therefore invent the prospect of an afterlife, and who would be powerful enough to design such a thing? "God" and only that. But all that is self defeating, instead of confronting our fear of death and helping to seek a method of prolonging our lives through science, we run to religion which has a long standing history of stifling science. Many people will argue the existence of a god because they feel that they've seen him in one manner or another. His face is on a door, his face was on a grilled cheese sandwich or the classic "I see it in the miracles that happen every day". Such as what? Newborn life? Every time a baby is born it's a "miracle". Well what about those born into third world countries that starve to death before they're old enough to read or what about those born into overpopulous that struggle through their entire life just trying to make ends meet(because it's a rat race just to get a job)then ultimately succumb to suicide. Was there really a point in either of those being born just to live a life of pain and suffering with no chance for a happy ending? Or perhaps people will argue the "miracles" of rain or the sun coming up each day. Nope, the sun is a giant ball of gas and the rain is just precipitation. God exists because like an imaginary friend when we have no other, we want him to exist and if we stop believing, he will not exist. When God created mankind He created us complete with a brain so we can think properly as human, plan and decide to which I believe that we us human are responsible with our individual right or wrong doing... Whether you believe or not it's your own opinion but haven't you realized that when you said here that God is blah blah blah it already proven that you believe that God really exist... It's just that... With whatever wrong doing mankind has done God is the one to blame as what you're saying when obviously it's not God who did it... Is human really created to put finger or put the blame on others? This is such a pity to us then IF god did exist in his all powerful form as people suggest then he easily has the power to intervene on all the wrongdoings but instead sits around and does nothing. He's like a police officer that sits there and watches murder happen in front of him and does nothing. Useless.. He watches people get brutally tortured until their minds are warped to pure evil on a daily basis and does nothing. Heck, according to the bible those people then end up getting punished with a trip directly to hell upon their death. As stated in the OP, IF he did exist, he's not a loving god and I'd go so far as to say the worlds biggest a--hole. If God were to wield all His powers you and your master will accuse Him of abuse. However,He had set a day to judge all the actions of Man --and that of your master and his defeated clique (Revelations 20 v 11-12) But now is time of Gods mercy and grace through Jesus Christ. He is a loving God. "master" Yeah... Slavery, yet another horrible practice that was given the religious seal of approval. Well,your generalizations are so miscued. God loves humanity whom He created so much that He offered up Himself through His Son JESUS CHRIST to reconcile humanity back to Himself. Why was that so necessary? Man sold out himself to the devil. The wicked devil became the master of Man. You are the servant to whose bidding you do. Man has turned to the devil. Consequently, evil became the lot of humanity:wars,sufferings, poverty,sickness etc Jesus came to alleviate Man from the works of the devil. Acts 10v38 : How God anointed Jesus Christ....with Holy Ghost and with power,who went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil;for God was with Him. All oppression:sicknesses, deciet of atheism,wars,all evils,unbelief has their root in the devil. DEVIL means pioneer of all evil and falsehood, deciet,lies,sin, atheism etc So dude,oppression is from the devil,not God-He is such a loving God. Still no proof of the existence of a god, just debate over the interpretations of the words in a 2000 year old fairy tale and the people that think every shift in the weather in proof of a god. So apparently he's a glorified weather man, lol... |
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I'm not saying I believe in the existence of a god, because I don't. I'm mostly posting here because the atheist forums are practically dead, which I don't really understand. Over 200k posts in religion and 1k in atheist forums. How do so many people in the age of logic and reason still believe in the existence of a god? It is written in the bible that god is a loving god, god is a forgiving god, blah blah. But in practice, god is a vindictive god, god is a childish god and god is a cruel god. The whole story about Noah's ark is basically a story about a god that got mad, threw a childish temper tantrum and killed everyone on the planet save a boatload of people and animals. Does that really seem like an all knowing god of great wisdom to anyone? If anyone has seen the movie "machine gun preacher". There's a movie based on the real life of Sam Childers, a biker that found religion after he thought he killed a man then traveling to Africa and helping to save a bunch of children from a corrupt warlord. On to my point. In the movie(based on real life) you see a bunch of children in a pile that were torched to death because they tried to escape. Was that all part of gods plan, did god "love" these children in their final minutes as they were brutally burned to death and screaming? Seems like a damned sadistic god to me. Basically what I'm saying is that if god does exist, he's pretty much using us as lab rats in his psychological experiment. All of the good stuff and "miracles" that he's let happen really do pale in comparison to all the atrocities that he's turned a blind eye to all in favor of fulfilling his "divine plan". In my honest opinion the novelty of "god" died off in the 20th century. I think that many of us are smart enough to come to the realization that the invention of a god in inevitable because we all fear death and therefore invent the prospect of an afterlife, and who would be powerful enough to design such a thing? "God" and only that. But all that is self defeating, instead of confronting our fear of death and helping to seek a method of prolonging our lives through science, we run to religion which has a long standing history of stifling science. Many people will argue the existence of a god because they feel that they've seen him in one manner or another. His face is on a door, his face was on a grilled cheese sandwich or the classic "I see it in the miracles that happen every day". Such as what? Newborn life? Every time a baby is born it's a "miracle". Well what about those born into third world countries that starve to death before they're old enough to read or what about those born into overpopulous that struggle through their entire life just trying to make ends meet(because it's a rat race just to get a job)then ultimately succumb to suicide. Was there really a point in either of those being born just to live a life of pain and suffering with no chance for a happy ending? Or perhaps people will argue the "miracles" of rain or the sun coming up each day. Nope, the sun is a giant ball of gas and the rain is just precipitation. God exists because like an imaginary friend when we have no other, we want him to exist and if we stop believing, he will not exist. When God created mankind He created us complete with a brain so we can think properly as human, plan and decide to which I believe that we us human are responsible with our individual right or wrong doing... Whether you believe or not it's your own opinion but haven't you realized that when you said here that God is blah blah blah it already proven that you believe that God really exist... It's just that... With whatever wrong doing mankind has done God is the one to blame as what you're saying when obviously it's not God who did it... Is human really created to put finger or put the blame on others? This is such a pity to us then IF god did exist in his all powerful form as people suggest then he easily has the power to intervene on all the wrongdoings but instead sits around and does nothing. He's like a police officer that sits there and watches murder happen in front of him and does nothing. Useless.. He watches people get brutally tortured until their minds are warped to pure evil on a daily basis and does nothing. Heck, according to the bible those people then end up getting punished with a trip directly to hell upon their death. As stated in the OP, IF he did exist, he's not a loving god and I'd go so far as to say the worlds biggest a--hole. If God were to wield all His powers you and your master will accuse Him of abuse. However,He had set a day to judge all the actions of Man --and that of your master and his defeated clique (Revelations 20 v 11-12) But now is time of Gods mercy and grace through Jesus Christ. He is a loving God. "master" Yeah... Slavery, yet another horrible practice that was given the religious seal of approval. Exodus 21 2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing 3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. I see now how it's a "horrible" practice. Slavery in those days were to either pay back financial obligations or a occupation of sorts if you will. |
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I'm not saying I believe in the existence of a god, because I don't. I'm mostly posting here because the atheist forums are practically dead, which I don't really understand. Over 200k posts in religion and 1k in atheist forums. How do so many people in the age of logic and reason still believe in the existence of a god? It is written in the bible that god is a loving god, god is a forgiving god, blah blah. But in practice, god is a vindictive god, god is a childish god and god is a cruel god. The whole story about Noah's ark is basically a story about a god that got mad, threw a childish temper tantrum and killed everyone on the planet save a boatload of people and animals. Does that really seem like an all knowing god of great wisdom to anyone? If anyone has seen the movie "machine gun preacher". There's a movie based on the real life of Sam Childers, a biker that found religion after he thought he killed a man then traveling to Africa and helping to save a bunch of children from a corrupt warlord. On to my point. In the movie(based on real life) you see a bunch of children in a pile that were torched to death because they tried to escape. Was that all part of gods plan, did god "love" these children in their final minutes as they were brutally burned to death and screaming? Seems like a damned sadistic god to me. Basically what I'm saying is that if god does exist, he's pretty much using us as lab rats in his psychological experiment. All of the good stuff and "miracles" that he's let happen really do pale in comparison to all the atrocities that he's turned a blind eye to all in favor of fulfilling his "divine plan". In my honest opinion the novelty of "god" died off in the 20th century. I think that many of us are smart enough to come to the realization that the invention of a god in inevitable because we all fear death and therefore invent the prospect of an afterlife, and who would be powerful enough to design such a thing? "God" and only that. But all that is self defeating, instead of confronting our fear of death and helping to seek a method of prolonging our lives through science, we run to religion which has a long standing history of stifling science. Many people will argue the existence of a god because they feel that they've seen him in one manner or another. His face is on a door, his face was on a grilled cheese sandwich or the classic "I see it in the miracles that happen every day". Such as what? Newborn life? Every time a baby is born it's a "miracle". Well what about those born into third world countries that starve to death before they're old enough to read or what about those born into overpopulous that struggle through their entire life just trying to make ends meet(because it's a rat race just to get a job)then ultimately succumb to suicide. Was there really a point in either of those being born just to live a life of pain and suffering with no chance for a happy ending? Or perhaps people will argue the "miracles" of rain or the sun coming up each day. Nope, the sun is a giant ball of gas and the rain is just precipitation. God exists because like an imaginary friend when we have no other, we want him to exist and if we stop believing, he will not exist. When God created mankind He created us complete with a brain so we can think properly as human, plan and decide to which I believe that we us human are responsible with our individual right or wrong doing... Whether you believe or not it's your own opinion but haven't you realized that when you said here that God is blah blah blah it already proven that you believe that God really exist... It's just that... With whatever wrong doing mankind has done God is the one to blame as what you're saying when obviously it's not God who did it... Is human really created to put finger or put the blame on others? This is such a pity to us then IF god did exist in his all powerful form as people suggest then he easily has the power to intervene on all the wrongdoings but instead sits around and does nothing. He's like a police officer that sits there and watches murder happen in front of him and does nothing. Useless.. He watches people get brutally tortured until their minds are warped to pure evil on a daily basis and does nothing. Heck, according to the bible those people then end up getting punished with a trip directly to hell upon their death. As stated in the OP, IF he did exist, he's not a loving god and I'd go so far as to say the worlds biggest a--hole. If God were to wield all His powers you and your master will accuse Him of abuse. However,He had set a day to judge all the actions of Man --and that of your master and his defeated clique (Revelations 20 v 11-12) But now is time of Gods mercy and grace through Jesus Christ. He is a loving God. "master" Yeah... Slavery, yet another horrible practice that was given the religious seal of approval. Well,your generalizations are so miscued. God loves humanity whom He created so much that He offered up Himself through His Son JESUS CHRIST to reconcile humanity back to Himself. Why was that so necessary? Man sold out himself to the devil. The wicked devil became the master of Man. You are the servant to whose bidding you do. Man has turned to the devil. Consequently, evil became the lot of humanity:wars,sufferings, poverty,sickness etc Jesus came to alleviate Man from the works of the devil. Acts 10v38 : How God anointed Jesus Christ....with Holy Ghost and with power,who went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil;for God was with Him. All oppression:sicknesses, deciet of atheism,wars,all evils,unbelief has their root in the devil. DEVIL means pioneer of all evil and falsehood, deciet,lies,sin, atheism etc So dude,oppression is from the devil,not God-He is such a loving God. Still no proof of the existence of a god, just debate over the interpretations of the words in a 2000 year old fairy tale and the people that think every shift in the weather in proof of a god. So apparently he's a glorified weather man, lol... And where is your own proof of His nonexistence ?? |
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This infant had committed no such crimes. He was killed by God in order to punish David. That is not fair. It is unfair to an extent. This infant never faced disease, physical or emotional pain while the rest of us do. Did you really type that? REALLY?! The infant never got the chance to have sex, either. Nuff said. And, yes, GOD killed the infant. You can toy with semantics and say that David killed the child all you want, but in the end, GOD did it. Where does it state that God "killed" the infant? Again, yes he took the infants life. But that doesn't mean the infant lost that life. Again does not reference the infant being thrown into the lake of fire, so there is no reason to believe/suspect the infant isn't with God as we type these messages back and forth. More semantics. The passage that I quoted said that God "struck the child," and the child subsequently died. So...God killed the child. Whether or not you want to try to soften the blow by reading into the text a happy ending that isn't there, the fact remains that God punished the child instead of David. That's unjust. That's unloving. The point is the heinous nature of God killing an infant as a means of punishing someone else, who should have paid for his own crimes. That was more punishment towards David then the infant. I'd be interested to hear the infant's opinion on that. As previously mentioned quite a few times that infant never had to face anything foul or negative in life. Got to spend it's entire existence with the LORD in the paradise. You don't know that. It's not stated in the text, so you are "going beyond the things written." Yet David never got raise the child, or enjoy any moments there with the child. So he in fact was paying for his crimes with the emotional distress of living forever with the regret of his blasphemy which caused this too happen, the regret of being responsible for his child never experiencing a life in this world. Yet, the passage in Leviticus that I quoted for you states that the adulterer (DAVID!) should have been put to death. Since you continue to obviate my point, allow me to try an illustration: If the jury who sentenced John Wayne Gacy to death for his abominable crimes had decided instead to sentence his son Michael to death in his place, and then the judge had released Gacy on his own recognizance, would you have supported that decision? Would you have argued that that was a good decision because "Now Michael won't have to suffer all the guilt and embarrassment, not to mention possible physical abuse, because of his father's crimes. Furthermore, he might now be in Heaven with God, where there is no pain. Not even paper cuts.(Sorry, but I had to throw that in, since you used that joke earlier. I love call-back humor.) And, I'm sure that Gacy himself will be so distraught over the loss of his son that he will never murder anyone else ever again." You seem like a good guy, so I cannot imagine that you would look at the Gacy situation in that way. So, why does God get a pass? Yes, we all need blood in one way or another, but the idea that animal or human sacrifice was necessary to appease God is ridiculous. Even in the case of life-saving blood transfusions, the donor isn't SLAUGHTERED. This is nothing but primitive superstition. The sacrifices didn't "appease" God. But he allowed them as a way to fix a wrong doing by giving up something they direly needed to merely exist. Again, there were no shopping malls to run down to if they were hungry to get some food and such things as that. Isaiah 1:11 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. Jeremiah 6:20 20 To what purpose cometh there to me incense from Sheba, and the sweet cane from a far country? your burnt offerings are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet unto me. Thus why the LORD came and sacrificed himself for us all. To rid the need or the desire of man to do these sacrifices in hopes to please God in giving up something to show their compassion and regret towards their actions. Okay, I'm glad you brought that up. That's another thing. Jesus' sacrifice was not only repugnant, but it was also completely unnecessary. Think about it: Adam sinned, incurring a debt with God that no human could ever repay, because of inherited imperfection. Right? So, God has Jesus come down here, get killed, then go back home and offer the value of his shed blood in order to pay the debt to God on our behalf. So, God had his son killed in order to pay a debt to...himself! That's ridiculous! That's like: You owe me $10,000, but you don't have the money to repay me. So, I say, "Okay...because I'm SUCH a great guy, here's what I'm going to do for you, you undeserving bum. I'm going to have my daughter sell one of her kidneys on the black market, and then pay the money to myself, on your behalf. Because I'm great. Don't forget how great I am. And, how undeserving you are." (Sounds like OT Yahweh, doesn't it?) Of course...I wouldn't do that! I would just FORGIVE THE DEBT!! Hebrews 13:16 16 But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased. Thus why I assume the change in between the two covenants from sacrificing beasts, to having faith and believing in Jesus and his teachings. There should have been no need for change. This is GOD we're talking about. He should have been able to come up with the correct solution the first time. Once again I, the atheist, give God more credit than most apologists, as I can't imagine him doing much of the dumb **** he is depicted as doing in the Bible. but there wasn't a change "in" the covenant. The first covenant prophesied it's end and the start of a new when all the prophecies were fulfilled. There wasn't a "problem" in the first covenant, and one day you'll have to ask God why he chose to do it that way if you're that curious about it. |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Thu 10/27/16 08:54 AM
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I'm not saying I believe in the existence of a god, because I don't. I'm mostly posting here because the atheist forums are practically dead, which I don't really understand. Over 200k posts in religion and 1k in atheist forums. How do so many people in the age of logic and reason still believe in the existence of a god? It is written in the bible that god is a loving god, god is a forgiving god, blah blah. But in practice, god is a vindictive god, god is a childish god and god is a cruel god. The whole story about Noah's ark is basically a story about a god that got mad, threw a childish temper tantrum and killed everyone on the planet save a boatload of people and animals. Does that really seem like an all knowing god of great wisdom to anyone? If anyone has seen the movie "machine gun preacher". There's a movie based on the real life of Sam Childers, a biker that found religion after he thought he killed a man then traveling to Africa and helping to save a bunch of children from a corrupt warlord. On to my point. In the movie(based on real life) you see a bunch of children in a pile that were torched to death because they tried to escape. Was that all part of gods plan, did god "love" these children in their final minutes as they were brutally burned to death and screaming? Seems like a damned sadistic god to me. Basically what I'm saying is that if god does exist, he's pretty much using us as lab rats in his psychological experiment. All of the good stuff and "miracles" that he's let happen really do pale in comparison to all the atrocities that he's turned a blind eye to all in favor of fulfilling his "divine plan". In my honest opinion the novelty of "god" died off in the 20th century. I think that many of us are smart enough to come to the realization that the invention of a god in inevitable because we all fear death and therefore invent the prospect of an afterlife, and who would be powerful enough to design such a thing? "God" and only that. But all that is self defeating, instead of confronting our fear of death and helping to seek a method of prolonging our lives through science, we run to religion which has a long standing history of stifling science. Many people will argue the existence of a god because they feel that they've seen him in one manner or another. His face is on a door, his face was on a grilled cheese sandwich or the classic "I see it in the miracles that happen every day". Such as what? Newborn life? Every time a baby is born it's a "miracle". Well what about those born into third world countries that starve to death before they're old enough to read or what about those born into overpopulous that struggle through their entire life just trying to make ends meet(because it's a rat race just to get a job)then ultimately succumb to suicide. Was there really a point in either of those being born just to live a life of pain and suffering with no chance for a happy ending? Or perhaps people will argue the "miracles" of rain or the sun coming up each day. Nope, the sun is a giant ball of gas and the rain is just precipitation. God exists because like an imaginary friend when we have no other, we want him to exist and if we stop believing, he will not exist. When God created mankind He created us complete with a brain so we can think properly as human, plan and decide to which I believe that we us human are responsible with our individual right or wrong doing... Whether you believe or not it's your own opinion but haven't you realized that when you said here that God is blah blah blah it already proven that you believe that God really exist... It's just that... With whatever wrong doing mankind has done God is the one to blame as what you're saying when obviously it's not God who did it... Is human really created to put finger or put the blame on others? This is such a pity to us then IF god did exist in his all powerful form as people suggest then he easily has the power to intervene on all the wrongdoings but instead sits around and does nothing. He's like a police officer that sits there and watches murder happen in front of him and does nothing. Useless.. He watches people get brutally tortured until their minds are warped to pure evil on a daily basis and does nothing. Heck, according to the bible those people then end up getting punished with a trip directly to hell upon their death. As stated in the OP, IF he did exist, he's not a loving god and I'd go so far as to say the worlds biggest a--hole. If God were to wield all His powers you and your master will accuse Him of abuse. However,He had set a day to judge all the actions of Man --and that of your master and his defeated clique (Revelations 20 v 11-12) But now is time of Gods mercy and grace through Jesus Christ. He is a loving God. "master" Yeah... Slavery, yet another horrible practice that was given the religious seal of approval. Well,your generalizations are so miscued. God loves humanity whom He created so much that He offered up Himself through His Son JESUS CHRIST to reconcile humanity back to Himself. Why was that so necessary? Man sold out himself to the devil. The wicked devil became the master of Man. You are the servant to whose bidding you do. Man has turned to the devil. Consequently, evil became the lot of humanity:wars,sufferings, poverty,sickness etc Jesus came to alleviate Man from the works of the devil. Acts 10v38 : How God anointed Jesus Christ....with Holy Ghost and with power,who went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil;for God was with Him. All oppression:sicknesses, deciet of atheism,wars,all evils,unbelief has their root in the devil. DEVIL means pioneer of all evil and falsehood, deciet,lies,sin, atheism etc So dude,oppression is from the devil,not God-He is such a loving God. Still no proof of the existence of a god, just debate over the interpretations of the words in a 2000 year old fairy tale and the people that think every shift in the weather in proof of a god. So apparently he's a glorified weather man, lol... It boils down to faith, for example purposes where is your proof of the existence of George Washington other by heresay "historical documents"? Just because you put more faith into those "evidences" of George's existence doesn't trump the evidences of God's existence. Just boils down to again you place more faith into those evidences then in God's. |
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Like I said, the bible and religion in general contradicts itself a stupid number of times Also incorrect. Our feeble minds and language barrier through interpretations contradicts each other. Some of the words from the ancient Hebrew are actually not understood in the bible. But are transliterated the best man knows how into the English language using context of surrounding words. That may not be translated totally correctly, as again they were translated/transliterated by mortal minds. Actually, there are many contradictions in the Bible. For instance: 2 Samuel 24:1 24 And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. 1 Chronicles 21:1 21 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. You can look these passages up in an interlinear Bible and compare the Hebrew if you like. You will see that "satan"(*See footnote) is not found anywhere in the 2 Samuel passage. There are many other examples as well. But, just for the sake of argument, let's say you're right. Let's just say that all of the apparent contradictions are just that...apparent contradictions. And, these apparent contradictions are a result of "Our feeble minds and language barrier through interpretations contradicts each other. Some of the words from the ancient Hebrew are actually not understood in the bible. But are transliterated the best man knows how into the English language using context of surrounding words. That may not be translated totally correctly, as again they were translated/transliterated by mortal minds." Wouldn't an all-knowing god, who ostensibly designed our brains, our system of communication, as well as all languages, have foreseen this problem and saw to it that his all-important words were accurately preserved in a single, easy to understand language? I would certainly think so. But, then again, I expect God to act like a god. *For the record:Yes, I know that the Hebrew word we translate "satan" is not a proper name, and doesn't apply to one single entity.Still, the word doesn't appear in the 2 Samuel passage at all. It's clear that that passage attributes the manipulation to Yahweh. Problem: This passage reports the sin of David in numbering the people of Israel and Judah. Verse one affirms that God moved David to number the people. However, according to 1 Chronicles 21:1, it was Satan who moved David to number the people. Who was responsible for prompting David to act? Solution: Both statements are true. Although it was Satan who immediately incited David, ultimately it was God who permitted Satan to carry out this provocation. Although it was Satan’s design to destroy David and the people of God, it was God’s purpose to humble David and the people and teach them a valuable spiritual lesson. This situation is quite similar to the first two chapters of Job in which both God and Satan are involved in the suffering of Job. Similarly, both God and Satan are involved in the crucifixion. Satan’s purpose was to destroy the Son of God (John 13:2; 1 Cor 2:8). God’s purpose was to redeem humankind by the death of His Son (Acts 2:14–39) *can give the source if needed |
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Like I said, the bible and religion in general contradicts itself a stupid number of times Also incorrect. Our feeble minds and language barrier through interpretations contradicts each other. Some of the words from the ancient Hebrew are actually not understood in the bible. But are transliterated the best man knows how into the English language using context of surrounding words. That may not be translated totally correctly, as again they were translated/transliterated by mortal minds. Actually, there are many contradictions in the Bible. For instance: 2 Samuel 24:1 24 And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. 1 Chronicles 21:1 21 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. You can look these passages up in an interlinear Bible and compare the Hebrew if you like. You will see that "satan"(*See footnote) is not found anywhere in the 2 Samuel passage. There are many other examples as well. But, just for the sake of argument, let's say you're right. Let's just say that all of the apparent contradictions are just that...apparent contradictions. And, these apparent contradictions are a result of "Our feeble minds and language barrier through interpretations contradicts each other. Some of the words from the ancient Hebrew are actually not understood in the bible. But are transliterated the best man knows how into the English language using context of surrounding words. That may not be translated totally correctly, as again they were translated/transliterated by mortal minds." Wouldn't an all-knowing god, who ostensibly designed our brains, our system of communication, as well as all languages, have foreseen this problem and saw to it that his all-important words were accurately preserved in a single, easy to understand language? I would certainly think so. But, then again, I expect God to act like a god. *For the record:Yes, I know that the Hebrew word we translate "satan" is not a proper name, and doesn't apply to one single entity.Still, the word doesn't appear in the 2 Samuel passage at all. It's clear that that passage attributes the manipulation to Yahweh. There has been much more obvious and straight forward contradictions in the bible. God loves us all equally. God hates gays. Granted the actual bible passages may differ but the message is the same. Well, I agree with you, but I didn't want to go into a big list of Biblical contradictions, as there are so many. So, I picked one that I find pretty blatant. After all, one passage stating that GOD made David conduct the census, and another passage stating that SATAN made David conduct the census is pretty obvious. |
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but there wasn't a change "in" the covenant. The first covenant prophesied it's end and the start of a new when all the prophecies were fulfilled. There wasn't a "problem" in the first covenant, and one day you'll have to ask God why he chose to do it that way if you're that curious about it. If the first covenant ended, and a new one began, then there was obviously a change.And, just to name one example...the prodigious number of animal sacrifices that were required in the Old covenant were replaced by one propitiatory sacrifice in the New. As I said, I picture God as being intelligent enough to come up with the right procedure the first time. And...after all that I said, you only replied to that part? Well, that's okay. I'm getting bored discussing this example, anyway. Perhaps we can talk about another example of God's unloving behavior depicted in the Bible. (There are so many to choose from.) After I put up the thread about Extra-biblical proof of Jesus' resurrection, that is. |
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Like I said, the bible and religion in general contradicts itself a stupid number of times Also incorrect. Our feeble minds and language barrier through interpretations contradicts each other. Some of the words from the ancient Hebrew are actually not understood in the bible. But are transliterated the best man knows how into the English language using context of surrounding words. That may not be translated totally correctly, as again they were translated/transliterated by mortal minds. Actually, there are many contradictions in the Bible. For instance: 2 Samuel 24:1 24 And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. 1 Chronicles 21:1 21 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. You can look these passages up in an interlinear Bible and compare the Hebrew if you like. You will see that "satan"(*See footnote) is not found anywhere in the 2 Samuel passage. There are many other examples as well. But, just for the sake of argument, let's say you're right. Let's just say that all of the apparent contradictions are just that...apparent contradictions. And, these apparent contradictions are a result of "Our feeble minds and language barrier through interpretations contradicts each other. Some of the words from the ancient Hebrew are actually not understood in the bible. But are transliterated the best man knows how into the English language using context of surrounding words. That may not be translated totally correctly, as again they were translated/transliterated by mortal minds." Wouldn't an all-knowing god, who ostensibly designed our brains, our system of communication, as well as all languages, have foreseen this problem and saw to it that his all-important words were accurately preserved in a single, easy to understand language? I would certainly think so. But, then again, I expect God to act like a god. *For the record:Yes, I know that the Hebrew word we translate "satan" is not a proper name, and doesn't apply to one single entity.Still, the word doesn't appear in the 2 Samuel passage at all. It's clear that that passage attributes the manipulation to Yahweh. There has been much more obvious and straight forward contradictions in the bible. God loves us all equally. God hates gays. Granted the actual bible passages may differ but the message is the same. Well, I agree with you, but I didn't want to go into a big list of Biblical contradictions, as there are so many. So, I picked one that I find pretty blatant. After all, one passage stating that GOD made David conduct the census, and another passage stating that SATAN made David conduct the census is pretty obvious. Problem: This passage reports the sin of David in numbering the people of Israel and Judah. Verse one affirms that God moved David to number the people. However, according to 1 Chronicles 21:1, it was Satan who moved David to number the people. Who was responsible for prompting David to act? Solution: Both statements are true. Although it was Satan who immediately incited David, ultimately it was God who permitted Satan to carry out this provocation. Although it was Satan’s design to destroy David and the people of God, it was God’s purpose to humble David and the people and teach them a valuable spiritual lesson. This situation is quite similar to the first two chapters of Job in which both God and Satan are involved in the suffering of Job. Similarly, both God and Satan are involved in the crucifixion. Satan’s purpose was to destroy the Son of God (John 13:2; 1 Cor 2:8). God’s purpose was to redeem humankind by the death of His Son (Acts 2:14–39) *source can be given if requested* =============== Try again David, I love these supposedly contradiction posts. But as this will lead this thread in an off topic direction, I request you make another thread about these contradictions. Love picking them apart and proving them wrong and not to actually be a contradiction :D |
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