Reminds me of this XD.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_sZ4DmUCw4

Heh, heh. The raisins have struck again!

This fits in perfectly here as well:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9a7_1279044523&comments=1
"Give me two fire breathing whores any day of the week!" Haha!

That was good, haven't laughed that hard in a while XD. If ya like that, you should look up some george carlin, sadly he's dead now but he had some of the best stand up comedy to date.
Lot of religious references as well.

Yep. George Carlin was great! And he did do a lot of excellent religion material. I'm sure you've seen it, but here's a good example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE

Here's a few other good examples of comics taking the piss out of religion/the Bible:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6lXGkOWBzM&index=1&list=RDO6lXGkOWBzM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4prBWqOGdM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlw9zmS-6Gw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuZSe8y05jA

Obviously, there's a lot more, but that's a pretty good sampling. :D

Is God a loving God? First of all, let's go back to the beginning:
Either the Bible is true, or evolution is true. Fair enough?

1. Evolution states that rain fell on rocks, washed the mud into the sea and after time the first amino acids were created. Oops. The ocean is alkaline and any acid that enters an alkaline solution gets turned to salt. Therefore, acids cannot exist in the sea. Is the ocean salty? Yes, of course it is. So much for evolution.

2. Is the Bible true? It cannot be disproved like evolution. That does not automatically mean that it is true, however. Nevertheless, I have found that the greatest critics of the Bible are those who haven't read it cover to cover, as any book is meant to be read. You certainly could not read War and Peace by jumping around and selecting the sentences that you want out of context and gain any semblance of understanding of the plot. Neither can you do so in the Bible.

3. My time is limited, so I will only address the Noah question:
The earth was filled with violence and every intention of men's hearts was only evil continuously. THAT is why the earth was destroyed. Nevertheless, Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. He and his 3 sons and their wives were spared because out of the entire earth, they alone still loved and worshiped God.

4. The Bible says that, "Greater love has no man other than to give his life for his friend", yet Jesus (God the Son) gave His life for us while we were yet His enemies. And never forget that "the little ones belong to the Lord" so if they die before coming to the age of accountability they go immediately to Heaven.

5. Lucifer was one of the 3 Archangels in the beginning. He tried to asset himself above God and was thrown out of Heaven because of it. He took 1/3 of the angels with him (now, demons). It was Satan (previously Lucifer) that cause the fall of mankind. He tempted Eve and she was beguiled, but Adam KNEW what he was doing and ate anyway. The sin nature, therefore, is passed down through the male seed. If you want secular proof of this, look at the prison populations. Most inmates are men. Very few women are inmates, and most of them are there because they were following a man.

6. The bottom line? If you accept Jesus as your Savior, you will go to Heaven, because Jesus has already paid the sin debt that you owe. He is now our advocate (attorney) standing before God the Father defending us against Satan the accuser. I can think of no better advocate.

Op you indicate that you believe that god is a human construct.

So why cannot an individual constructor choose whether their god is loving or not?

Sorry, but I do not accept your premise as stated. There are many, many other possibilities that you are excluding. First off, evolution and abiogenesis are two completely different things. So, are you actually talking specifically about abiogenesis vs. the Bible, or are you talking about evolution vs the Bible? Also, bear in mind that evolution and the Bible are not actually mutually exclusive. Many Christians these days believe that God provided the spark of life, and then let evolution take it from there.

Furthermore, there are many ancient myths that purport to explain how life began that are much older than the Bible, and it can be demonstrated that the Bible writers likely "borrowed" heavily from some of these previously existing myths. Therefore, we must decide which creationism model is the oldest and/or most reliable before we should even think about comparing one of them to evolution.



There are a number of different theories about exactly how abiogenesis took place. This is far too deep a topic to cover in much detail here, but if you wish, some Google-ing will provide you with a lot of reading material on the topic. For now, I'll just throw this out: How do you know that the primordial seas were as salty as they are now? Besides, who says the amino acids formed in the ocean? Some of the theories that I have read state that the amino acids in question formed in ponds. Also, here's an article that discusses another solution to your problem: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130405064027.htm
Finally, even if every theory on the topic out there at present is wrong, that still doesn't mean that the Bible or its predecessors are automatically correct. It just means that we haven't found the correct answer yet. But, I have no doubt that, whenever we do completely solve this riddle, it will, like every other scientific discovery in human history, have nothing to do with the supernatural.



No, it's not. Some of the information in the Bible is factual, of course, but not all. I have demonstrated this to a degree already. For the record, I have read the Bible, cover-to-cover, three times in my life, in addition to countless times studying select passages. While context is indeed important, many apologists overuse the word as a "catch-all" tool, whipping it out every time a critic focuses on a particular passage. In some of these cases, the context does make a difference as regards the particular interpretation that is being debated, other times it doesn't. If you read the last several pages of this thread, you will see some examples.

Also, your "War and Peace" illustration doesn't work here, for "War and Peace" is an actual book, by a single writer, whereas the Bible is an anthology of separate books, written by many different authors. The only overarching plot that you will find that encompasses the whole Bible is one that you project upon it, like seeing shapes in the clouds. For example, ask a Rabbi (A person who actually reads Hebrew!) about what the overall point of the Tanakh is, and how it relates to the NT. You will find that his "plot" is quite a bit different from your own.

In truth, there are so many issues with the Bible (Translation issues, for instance.), that the "Context Card" will only save you once in a while. For instance, all the context in the world won't salvage the Noah story from all the scientific errors and absurdities contained therein.
Speaking of which:



All you have done there is to paraphrase the Bible story. In the first place, I have demonstrated previously that the Bible is not a real reliable witness, so your statements are not backed by much in the way of evidence. Also, they do nothing to ameliorate the aforementioned scientific problems with the story. Finally, they don't even begin to address the issues with this story that I have brought up in this thread. (Like why an All-Wise God would employ such a clumsy, inelegant solution in the first place. It's like using a nuclear bomb to kill your dog's fleas.



Again, your statement is wholly dependent upon the Bible. There is no extra-Biblical evidence to support your assertion. (These "little ones" are not sending us post cards from Heaven saying "Wish You Were Here!" or anything like that.) Just because you fervently believe something, that doesn't make it true.



You know this how?! From the Bible. Well...mostly. In this case, some of what you just claimed here isn't even in the Bible! After all, the Bible only mentions one archangel, and that is Michael. The other archangels are merely a part of church tradition. And, the name "Lucifer" for the character known as Satan isn't really Biblical, either. That name appears only in the 14th chapter of Isaiah, a chapter that Christians misapply to the Satan (Ironically, THIS name is wrong, too, as the Hebrew word "saw-tawn" is not a proper name.) character when it actually applied to the king of Babylon. In fact, the Satan character wasn't even invented until after the Jews were exposed to Persian dualism following the Babylonian exile. That's why he isn't even mentioned until the latest-written books of the Tanakh. (Note that he isn't mentioned anywhere in the Garden of Eden story, for instance. He has been retro-jected back into that story by Christian writers.)



Pure speculation, based upon preconceived religious notions. I will offer you a more common-sense, and scientifically sound alternative theory: Men generally have significantly higher levels of testosterone in their bodies than women, and testosterone has been observed to generate higher levels of aggressive behavior.

No sin required.



Excuse me, but the bottom line is that you have merely offered more very definitely-stated assertions that are totally dependent upon the Bible, a demonstrably unreliable source of evidence. But, if you have any actual evidence with which to support your claims, I'd be happy to hear it.

I totally agree, God is always around and although we can't see him. More then often your calling on his name in vein. So why call on him if you don't Believe in him. You'd be calling out for someone to you that does not exist. ???

Doing horrible thing to one another is a choice! God tells you in your heart right from wrong. Streight Up Tell's you! He even tells you not to do it. It's your disobedience to him to choose to do what your Will is Not Gods.

GOD is a loving GOD....3 nails and 1 cross proved it

With all due respect, if you had read my previous posts, you would see that I used to believe in God. That's when I prayed to him. Every day. I never heard, or saw evidence of, any sort of reply.

Of course I don't pray to him now. As you implied, it would be pretty ridiculous to pray to a god I no longer believe in.



I'm sorry but one of the points I have been stressing here is that God does NOT straight up TELL us anything. Unless God is directly talking to you, then everything you just claimed comes directly from the Bible, which is not a credible source of information or evidence.

And, if God is directly talking to you, I would respectfully ask you the same question that I asked Cowboy: What makes you so special, that God speaks directly to you, yet so many other ardent believers who call out to him every day never hear from him, and so have to squint really hard and look for "signs" of his possible reply?

Sorry, but three nails and one cross prove nothing other than the fact that three nails and one cross exist. But, I infer your point, so...

While I agree in principle that anyone, or any god, that sacrifices his/her life for others is unquestionably loving, there is almost zero evidence that the Passion story is legit. There is scant little evidence that Jesus even existed, as far as that goes. But if he did, and IF he was crucified by the Romans...that was it. He was just a man. Nothing more, nothing less. So, sorry, but the Passion story provides no reliable evidence that God is a loving god.

Furthermore, as I said before, if the Passion story were true, taking it at face-value still doesn't demonstrate a loving God, for he had his son killed in order to pay back a debt to himself! That's not very loving.

On the contrary, it is indeed loving. The Passion story tells us that God took the punishment that we deserve.

amen <3

On the contrary, it is not. Rather than have his son killed in order to pay back a debt to himself, he should have just forgiven the debt.
Furthermore, it is not at all loving for god to hold all of us accountable for Adam and Eve's ****-up. Particularly since said ****-up supposedly came about as a result of one of his angels screwing around with Eve's mind. Sort of like a father letting his teenage son manipulate his toddler daughter into doing something wrong, and then holding the toddler responsible for it.

I think this post is interesting from a guy whose username is Lazarus. I do have a question, what did God do to you to make you so angry and mad at Him? You don't have to answer if you don't want to, I just hate to hear when people are upset that's all...

You have that a bit mixed up my friend.

- His "angel" didn't tempt them. He was done kicked out of Heaven prior. At that point, he was no longer an "angel" or in servitude of God.
- The angels are not "children" of God. They are a creation. Only man/woman are called children of God.
- Your example of a father letting his teenage son falls on it's face. As again angels are not "children" of God. They are a creation for a purpose, purpose depending on the angel in question.
- Is a child not responsible for his/her own actions regardless of whom might have tempted them or told/ask them too do it?

And what "real" punishment do you feel in your life today from this?

- Upset that you're not a mortal?
- Upset you have to get your own food? Kill/hunt, ect.. now in store?
- Upset you get sick?
- Upset women feel the pain of child birth?

What side effect of coming out of the garden has negatively effected you in such a way to spend your day's time putting God down with insults?

And he didn't "have" his son do anything. Jesus willfully took that cross upon himself. And if it wouldn't have been for mankind's actions or inability to obey, that would not have had to happen. Or their lack of faith in Jesus being God or whom he claimed to be.

Not a damn thing, because god doesn't exist. IF he does exist(and that's a big IF) he still hasn't done a damn thing for me or to me. He is on his own agenda and does not give a flying crap about any of us. I guess he wants us to explain every little thing that we don't yet understand as his doing. It's raining, god did it, the sun comes up in the day and goes down at night, god did it.. Oh wait; we understand those things now, what's next?

Edit: My name, Lazarus, I got from playing Diablo 1, it wasn't intended to be religious in any way.

So... God sent an exiled angel(one exiled for murdering another angel) down to play with his ignorant humans. That sounds responsible!

He made a curious creature, put it near a tree and said, don't touch the apples. The hell did he think was going to happen? Humans would have been no different from any other animals if they didn't touch the apple and as explained, they only did so after god did the equivalent of sending a maximum security prisoner into a kindergarten. God is either an idiot, willfully ignorant or just plain doesn't give a crap.

"And what "real" punishment do you feel in your life today from this?"

A lifetime of servitude to the rich and famous. Instead of living a life of peace in the garden we live stressful lives trying to keep jobs that we hate just to survive through lives that many of us don't even care about all because most of us fear death too much to opt out early. Few privileged humans get to be in that rich and/or famous crowd or find love early in their lives or live in ignorant bliss under the umbrella of a non-existent entity but that's not the case for the majority.

Where do you get the notion God "sent" anyone to do anything such as this? And Satan wasn't exiled for murdering another angel, where did you get that notion as well?



What does right and famous have anything to do with love? Think it takes either of the two have anything to do with love?



Servitude to the rich and famous? I personally don't serve anyone/anything but God almighty. Sorry you feel you need to serve the rich and famous.

And after all that, none of that has anything to do with God. God didn't make these people rich, or you poor, or me poor, or anything to do with money in any way.