He was not immortal while he was on Earth. Took on the form of a MAN, and was made in the LIKENESS of a man. Not putting down the great glory of Jesus, but as for physically speaking Jesus was just as you and I.

Philippians 2:7

7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men

He was not immortal while he was on Earth. Took on the form of a MAN, and was made in the LIKENESS of a man. Not putting down the great glory of Jesus, but as for physically speaking Jesus was just as you and I.

Philippians 2:7

7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men

We have tried countless times to agree to disagree with Cowboy.

We have told him that we are confident that God loves him and appreciates his beliefs, etc.

All we have ever asked from Cowboy is to respect that our reasons for not believing in the religion.

I'm sure he doesn't realize it, but the harder he tries to push the religion onto us the more we will explain to him why we don't buy into it.

So his pushing of the religion is what gives us the opportunity to explain why we don't believe it in great depth.

He's actually doing us quite the favor by presenting us with a constant flood of absurdities to object to.

The more he tries to "justify" the religion with excuses for it, the more opportunity we have for explaining why we aren't buying into those excuses.

His continued harping that other people "need" to believe this religion lest God will be mean to them also helps our case, even though I'm quite sure he's not the slightest bit aware of that.

~~~~~

Like jrbogie, I agree that religions *can* be, and often are, quite detrimental to humanity on many levels. This is particularly true of the fragmented Abrahamic religions that are based on the idea of a jealous God who will condemn people to eternal damnation if they fail to believe in a particular fragment of that fractured folklore.

We see the Christians, Jews, and Muslims butting heads in the real world all the time. So religion becomes a serious "political issue" truly. It negatively affects everyone, even those who don't care to believe in it.

~~~~~

Just for the record, I personally believe that there do exist spiritual philosophies that are not harmful to humanity, and can even be quite positive. But those spiritual philosophies do not create jealous Godheads that demand that a person follow a particular doctrine lest God will be peeved with them.

So I'm not personally out to abolish spirituality altogether. In fact, if people want to believe in Jesus that's ok with me too. But when they run around like Cowboy trying to beat people over the head with Jesus, then their religion becomes truly ugly and detrimental again.

So Cowboy isn't helping the religion of his choice at all. All he's really doing is demonstrating how big of a pain in the butt it can truly be for those who aren't interested in buying into it.

Jesus never told anyone to go out and "ARGUE WITH ANYONE TO THE DEATH"

That's ridiculous.

In fact, the scriptures have Jesus himself saying that if a man hears his words and doesn't believe he will not judge them.

And he was speaking to people LIVE.

So if Jesus isn't going to judge against those who didn't even believe in him in person face-to-face, he most certainly wouldn't be judging people for not believing in 2000-year-old hearsay rumors about him.

The whole idea of holding Jesus up as a battering ram, or threat, toward non-believers of the religion is utterly ludicrous.

The scriptures themselves don't even support that kind of nonsense.

That's just religious EXTREMISM that can't even be supported by the original writings anyway.

But that's apparently Cowboy's agenda. He's trying to convince people that Jesus will condemn everyone who refuses to believe that Jesus was "The Christ".

All we have ever asked from Cowboy is to respect that our reasons for not believing in the religion.

I know he was not immortal as in having an immortal body. But you clearly said "The passing away of this mortal body is not "death".

So he did not die, and when we die, we don't really die.

So religions should stop using the fear of "death" to recruit people.

And they should stop spreading guilt by telling people that Jesus died for us.

And the should stop promising "everlasting life" when we already have it, cause death is not really death.

And I do respect your beliefs and or the lack thereof.

Nothing I have ever said has ever been "disrespectful". I've never one said anyone was stupid for not believing, never once said anyone was lesser of a person for not believing, ect.

AGAIN, we're merely having a conversation, a discussion about the topic at hand. If you choose not to believe, that's fine, that is your choice lol. No one's trying to change your beliefs, just merely having a discussion on the beliefs at hand.

1. Jesus did die for us. He spent 3 days in Hell, until he defeated death and was resurrected.

2. No one's using any "fear" tactic or anything lol. One would have to believe before they had anything to "fear". So trying to scare someone into believing wouldn't work at all.

3. It's not a guilt thing about Jesus dying for our sins, what are you talking about? It is informing of a great gift given to us, not anything to do with making someone feel guilty about anything.

Or the lack thereof? What does that imply? How about your lack of belief in what I believe?

By saying "and the lack thereof" you imply that not to believe as you do is some kind of mistake or "lack."

You are so transparent.



You don't have to say it. You are so transparent. You say it with the words you choose. What you think is an open book.



Again with the "..if you choose not to believe" B.S.

Why should anyone "choose to believe" as you believe? There is no good reason.

Cowboy wrote:

The center of the Earth, is molten lava. It is hotter then the sun scientists believe. The description of Hell fits perfectly to the conditions of the center of the Earth. An in that day and age, there was absolutely no way of them to have known that except through divine knowledge of such. They did not have the equipment and what not to discover this obviously.

Revelation 20:10

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

1. If you are "dead" you can't "be in hell."
Only your body can die, the soul can't die.

2. Fear of death tactic, fear of hell tactic, is ALWAYS USED BY RELIGIONS! In fact, without fear, they have absolutely no power over people.

3. If you believe the lie that someone died for your sins, and you don't feel guilty, then what kind of psychopath are you?

Well I am here to tell you that I am not afraid of Death or Hell or the end of the freaking world, and I don't feel guilty about anyone dying for my sins.

So there is nothing else to "be saved" from.

Cowboy wrote:

And I do respect your beliefs and or the lack thereof. Nothing I have ever said has ever been "disrespectful". I've never one said anyone was stupid for not believing, never once said anyone was lesser of a person for not believing, ect. AGAIN, we're merely having a conversation, a discussion about the topic at hand. If you choose not to believe, that's fine, that is your choice lol. No one's trying to change your beliefs, just merely having a discussion on the beliefs at hand.

You've got to be joking, or truly naive.

Have you ever heard of a Volcano? The fact that molten lava flows out of the Earth was well-known back in ancient times. Moreover, volcanos themselves were often the focal points of God's and/or demons for many cultures. That's a common myth and requires absolutely no "divine knowledge" to come up with such superstitions.



So this is somehow a "Good Thing"?

The devil and false prophets are going to be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



And that serves what purpose?

Does this make God happy to know that beings are being tortured day and night for ever and ever?

It certainly can't be to teach them a "lesson" since the "lesson" will supposedly never end. It can only be a concept of REVENGE.

But the desire to seek endless revenge is actually a human FAULT.

The idea that a supreme all-powerful being would need to seek revenge or in any way be pleased to know that beings are being tortured for ever and ever for having "crossed" him is not the character trait of a loving "all-merciful and forgiving God", but instead it's the extremely immature character trait of a foolish human being.

The things that you offer up to 'support' these myths are precisely the same reasons I reject them as being nothing more than myths.

Any God who gets his rocks off by torturing people for ever and ever is one sick puppy, IMHO.

Like I say, I would feel much better about a purely atheistic world with no god at all then I would feel about a God who is so sick that he seeks eternal revenge via physically torturing people for ever and ever.



That's not the character traits of a "God". That's just the sign of a truly absurd fable. It's a very sound reason to reject these writings as being utterly absurd.

The idea that a supreme all-powerful being would need to seek revenge or in any way be pleased to know that beings are being tortured for ever and ever for having "crossed" him is not the character trait of a loving "all-merciful and forgiving God", but instead it's the extremely immature character trait of a foolish human being.

Well fine, if that's the truth, then your belief that there exists a God who punishes women with painful childbirth, sacrifices his own son in a brutal way so that he can forgive the sins of men, and tortures people for ever and ever to satisfy his lust for revenge, then so be it.

If that works for you, more power to you.

I have sound reasons for dismissing all of those horrible things, and believing that some guy named Jesus actually tried to dismiss those negative teachings and rumors as well. Unfortunately he got caught up by the negative religion and became a victim of the religion's very tendency to incite its followers to wrongfully crucify people in the name of God, which is precisely what happened to Jesus himself.

Then Jesus himself was used as an idol to condemn people in the name of religion. It totally backfired on him unfortunately.

That's truly sad.

You constantly contradict yourself. Once you said that anything you believe is a "religion." Now you say the opposite.

You said that Jesus died on the cross, and then you say that "The passing away of this mortal body is not "death."

If you were not afraid of death, if you did not feel guilty about Jesus who had to die for your sins, you would not be a Christian.

If humans were truly immortal and had no fear of death, they would not need to be saved.

Death Death Death... That is what religions are all about. They preach death. They offer to save you from death.

You believe what you want to believe but I don't believe you or your religion that you say you don't have.

Cowboy wrote:

1. Hell is not eternal. There will not be eternal "burning", eternal punishment, or anything of such. You either receive the gift of eternal life and reside in Heaven or you are cast into the lake of fire to be destroyed and die.

Revelation 20:10

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Sorry Cowboy, but your claims are totally inconsistent:

You just posted a verse from these fables that claims that false prophets will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



And now you're trying to claim that hell is not for ever and ever.

At best your so-called "holy scriptures" are riddled with errors.

At worse, they are just outright superstitions that are riddled with extremely poorly thought out ideas.

It makes no sense to post a verse where it says that people will be tortured day and night for ever and ever, and then to turn around and claim that hell isn't eternal suffering in an attempt to justify the 'sanity' of your God.

Obviously you'll argue for whatever excuses seem to best fit the current concern in the moment.

Either the torturing is for ever and ever, or Revelations 20:10 is in ERROR.

You can't have it both ways.

This is why I reject these myths as being nothing more than superstitious fables, they aren't even consistent in their claims.

LoL, no you're still no listening.

where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Where the BEAST and THE FALSE PROPHET shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Cowboy wrote:

LoL, what are you talking about Abra? Didn't say God found pleasure in Satan and the false prophets being tormented for ever and ever. Nor did I imply that. This won't be done for the pleasure of God, this will be done for the punishment of Satan and what he has done. And it's not revenge, again it's punishment for what Satan has done and or did while he was an Angel.

It seems to me that you are the one who constantly takes everything person.

I couldn't care less what YOU SAY.

I'm addressing the fables directly.

The notion of eternal "punishment" would need to have a PURPOSE.

What would be the purpose of "punishing" someone endlessly?

Who would benefit from this?

If God is not benefiting from it by being pleased by, and the people who are being punished cannot possibly benefit from it because they will never again have a change to have "learned" from the punishment, then what would be the point to the punishment?

I guess this is where you and I differ wildly.

Apparently you see some sort of 'justification' in utterly meaningless punishment for no good reason other than to make people suffer because someone has decided that they "deserve" to suffer.

That's ridiculous. If these beings are so unwanted and unworthy of existing, what would be the point in "punishing" them endlessly. Why not just wave them out of existence with your all-powerful magic wand. After all, remember 'With God ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE".

There would need to be a sane reason for God to keep them alive in a state of eternal suffering.

But what could that reason be?

The idea that they simple "deserve it" is unacceptable to me. No conscious being deserves to be placed into a state of eternal endless torment. That's far beneath my own moral standards.

So the God of the Bible is necessarily beneath my moral standards.

There can be no question about it.

Either than or he would need to be powerless to prevent it, but that would violate the idea that he's all-powerful so we can't have that either.

The only rational explanation is that these are just utterly absurd fables. That explains everything.

Then there's no need to justify a "God" who condemns people to eternal torment, because it's just a fable, and there's no truth it whatsoever.

Problem SOLVED.

So the God of the Bible is necessarily beneath my moral standards.

Then there's no need to justify a "God" who condemns people to eternal torment, because it's just a fable, and there's no truth it whatsoever.