Dinosaurs?

Evolution?

Where are these things in the Bible?

Why is there evidence contradicting a world-wide flood during the time of man?

where are dinosaurs and evolution in american history books? thats not discrediting the book, thats a result of not being able to expect any one book to contain detailed information about 'all' things to have ever existed


there is evidence contradicting a world wide flood for the same reason there is evidence contradicting the idea that sexuality is a 'choice'

because people often take correlations as proof of causation,,,

because people interpret things the way that fits into their experience,,,

You can't be serious Slow.

There is truly no comparison between the Abrahamic religions and the other religions that you've mentioned.

The Abrahamic religions claim that their doctrines represent the "Word of God". None of the other religions you've mentioned make any such claims.

The Abrahamic religions claim that God gave mankind specific directives and commandments that must be obeyed lest the man will be severely punished. None of the other religions you've mentioned make any such claims.

The Abrahamic religions claim that if you refuse to believe and obey the commandments and directives written in the bible then you are refusing to worship and praise your creator and will be dealt with by the creator from that stance.

~~~~

If you want to reduce the Abrahamic religoins (especially Christianity) to the same kinds of spiritual philosophies of the other religions that you've mentioned, then you need to take the whole thing as nothing more than parables and metaphors.

In the case of Christianity, you'd need to view the virgin birth of Jesus as just a metaphor (not a direct verbatim infallible truth). Same thing goes with the resurrection and any and all "miracles" that he supposedly performed.

You have to accept that when the Bible says that God spoke to a crowd from a cloud, that was just a metaphor and not a proclamation that some personified Godhead is actually endorsing the tale.

The Abrahamic religions can never be placed in the same category with the other spiritual philosophies that you've mentioned.

It's either the infallible verbatim inerrant word of some personified egotistical godhead, or it isn't.

There can be no middle-of-road for the biblical picture of God. The stories themselves simply will not permit it.

~~~~~~


The Bible, as written, simply needs to be the infallible verbatim inerrant word of a specific personified godhead who has laid out specific directives and commandments that must be followed lest he punish people with severe pain such as the gnashing of teeth and causing them to wail in unquenchable flames (as per what these supposedly inerrant scriptures claim), or it's total nonsense.

So it truly comes down to the fact that it's either the infallible verbatim inerrant word of a specific personified godhead or it's total nonsense.

Since it's obvious to me that it's not the former, then it must be the latter.

There simply is no wiggle room.

The other religions that you've mentioned make no such claims about their spiritual philosophies. They don't go around teaching people that if you fail to believe in their spiritual views you are refusing to obey the "Word of God".

The comparison that you would like to make with these other religions simply does not exist and cannot exist in harmony with the claims and accusations that are actually made in the bible scriptures.

It's truly an "all-or-nothing" religion. It's either true, or false. It makes no sense to try to place it in some form of limbo.

It's a story that claims to have a jealous personified MALE God from whom we have fallen from grace. That God has clearly punished all women with painful childbirth because of Eve's original sin of having fallen from grace, and so on and so forth.

It's either TRUE, or it's FALSE. There can be no middle of the road.

Trying to "salvage" it as a mere metaphorical and allegorical philosophy that attempts to convey what some god "might" be like simply can't work. That just doesn't line up with the absolute claims and demands that are contained in those scriptures.

Abra you are simply wrong. Most adherents of the Abrahamic
religions really don't believe that the bible is literally true but
that it instead valuable as a guide to study.

It is only you and a handful of hard-core believers who are
trying to insist that it is a literal thing.

Do you really want to throw in with that bunch?!

You do not and cannot possibly speak for "most" adherents of the Abrahamic religions or what they believe.

Most of them are TAUGHT and TOLD by their pastors that the Bible is literally true. Most of them are too timid and afraid to question their authority or even question their pastor.

I was invited to come into the "Church of God" bible study class one day while walking past the Church next door. I asked the pastor if they allowed non-Christians. He said "sure..... as long as you aren't disruptive."

What he meant, in no uncertain terms was, as long as I did not challenge the doctrine as false.

You, slowhand, are simply not in touch with what others believe or what others are still being taught.

So you're saying that most believers in the Abrahamic religions don't actually believe that the ten commandments came from any God?


John 3:16-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So you're suggesting that only a few hard-core Christians believe that what John had to say was true, whilst the vast majority of them believe that John was just full of hot air blabbing his own opinionated rumors?

In other words, you're suggesting that the vast majority of Christians actually believe like me?

Sheesh!

Damn! I can't believe that I've so grossly misunderstood the religion.

So you're saying that basically very few people actually believe it, and the vast majority view it as merely being undependable hearsay fables that only have value as metaphorical ideals?

Gee whiz. I'll give it that much.

You could use Greek Mythology for that. This may come as a surprise to you but many of the tales of Greek mythology were also designed to try to instill good moral values in people.

~~~~~

So you're suggesting that it's merely a misguided perception to think that Christians, Muslims, and Jews hold their doctrines up to represent the actual commandments of God?

Hmmmm?

Interesting.

I think you need to pass that by the Christians, Muslims, and Jews to see how they respond to that.

Good luck with that.

Exactly, anything that disrupts their brainwashing sessions is deemed to be 'negative' and a 'troublemaker'.

So churches actually become sanctuaries were the myths can be propagated without objection. Anyone who objects is branded to be a 'trouble maker'.

How DARE you question that this doctrine is the word of God!

You troublemakers are all alike!

All you do is go around being negative all the time!



It's precisely that mentality that keeps the sheep in line. Dare to question it or speak out against it and you'll be socially chastised and branded as a good-for-nothing "troublemaker" who has no "respect" for anything "Holy".

That whole scam is an underhanded brainwashing tactic. Just totally condemn everyone and anyone who questions the religion as being a "negative troublemaker" who is good for nothing and a menace to society.



People see others being rejected as "negative troublemakers" and they don't want to be accused of that, so they stick with the crowd and do whatever is required to avoid being cast out as a "heathen" troublemaker.

This is why people will never find TRUTH in a church. Churches are designed specifically to weed out and condemn TRUTH in favor of blindly supporting the lies of their doctrines as the "inerrant word of some jealous God"

And they know that if they allow people to question the doctrine or encourage people to do so that they will not be able to answer those questions and the fallacies and errors of their doctrines will be blatantly revealed.

They know that their doctrines cannot stand up to sincere open-minded objective inspection.

really? 'as long as you arent disruptive'

means as long as you dont challenge doctrine?


wow...amazing,,,


I thought disruptive was similar to being rude, interrupting, undermining authority,,,,etc,,

kind of like when a kid in a public school chooses to text or chat while the teacher is talking or chooses to talk over the teacher or debate with the teacher(interrupting their lesson) as opposed to asking questions at the appropriate time,,,,,

all this time, it just meant challenging doctrine? who would have thought,,,,

all religions fault,,,sigh

JeannieBean wrote:

You do not and cannot possibly speak for "most" adherents of the Abrahamic religions or what they believe.

Most of them are TAUGHT and TOLD by their pastors that the Bible is literally true. Most of them are too timid and afraid to question their authority or even question their pastor


this statement is kind of 'contradictory'

either we can speak for 'most' adherents or we cant,,

Good one.

But...

Just go to any church and watch and listen. You will come to the same conclusion.

I don't claim to know what they "believe." (like he did) I just report what I observe. I think my observations are more accurate than slowhand's but if you want, we can go over to the Christian forum and ask them and take a poll.

I have gone to several churches. The bible has been taught as the 'inspired' word of God at those churches. The bible has been studied as a document that recorded the customs and laws of men in a specific area during a specific time. There are plenty of places in the bible which are 'expressed' as parables specifically, making the whole bible very obviously not literal.

I wouldnt be so quick to assume that christians are any more or less 'afraid' than anyone else, about consequences, or about asking questions.....

It's not a matter of blaming fault on someone MsHarmony.

The people INVITED people to come to their Sunday School classes where they are going to be making OUTRAGEOUS claims that their doctrine is the "Word of God".

So if you take them up on their INVITE, and then question all their lame excuses and explanations for the reasonable objections you have to their conclusions then they will claim that you are 'disruptive'.

And YES, if a student constantly questioned the AUTHORITY of a school teacher then they too would be branded as being "disruptive".

The only difference is that a school teacher usually has reputable evidence and reasons to back up what they teach (depending on what they are teaching of course). And if they don't, then perhaps they shouldn't be teaching it.

In churches and bible studies those people never have reputable evidence or rational reasons for their claims. In fact, they often use lame excuses like, "We just have to TRUST that God knows best", or some other lame thing like that.

You even use that approach quite often because that's precisely the mindset that has been explained to you.

You will often say, "I don't question the wisdom of God because I can't possibly know all the details"

That's totally irrelevant. The only "details" that you need to know when questioning a STORY are the "details" that are being claimed by the story. If the story hasn't given sufficient explanations to resolve the questions, then it's valid to question it, and not just sit back and say, "Well God probably knows things that aren't in these stories".

That totally misses the point of questioning the STORIES in the first place.

Face it, Churches ASSUME that the Bible is the "Word of God" and work from there. And anyone who isn't willing to work from that initial assumption is considered to be "disruptive" to the GOAL. The GOAL being to support a BELIEF that the stories of the Bible truly are the "Word of God".

They START there and then merely sit around and attempt to justify that conclusion by totally IGNORING and waving off any reasons to consider otherwise.

if someone INVITES me in anywhere, it doesnt matter whether I agree with them or not, because there is a door by which I can leave if I am in that much disagreement,,,,otherwise I Can show the respect of waiting for the opportunity to ask questions when I am INVITED to do so and at which time such questions would probably be addressed as best as the speaker could...

its rather a mute point to state that a group(ANY GROUP) doesnt want people to disrupt their activity/service or whatever,, why there is a need to single out churches for having such an interest in avoiding disruption is beyond me except to paint religion and church in a exclusively negative/bigoted light,,,,as usual

So...

has the Bible been discredited yet in the minds of those who offer credit to it?

Beat 'em into submission... it worked in the slave trade, right?

Am I the only one who the above ironohypocrisy above screams out to?


--


You do not and cannot....




but I can.

Troll.

Noah's Ark discovered in the Mountains of Ararat.


Noah's ark is real, the bible is the truth. Read the true story of finding Noah's Ark and the artifacts found there. It's an exciting discovery adventure in Turkey. There is a museum built near the ark in Turkey. Even the anchor stones are still there to see. Did lava really preserve this ancient bible artifact? Discover for yourself. Dig into Ron Wyatt's discoveries.

"And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen." (Genesis 8:4-5)

Did you see it? Read it again. God shows something new! It doesn't say mountain. It says "tops of the mountains" and "mountains of Ararat". Where are the mountains of Ararat? Certainly this includes the mountain range of Ararat.

See, there I go...

Ms. beat me to it...

I rest my case.

See, slowhand. There are people who believe the story is true.

BTW: finding remnants of what they claim is Noah's arc does not mean the story/myth is true.