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| Topic: the christian god ... loving or evil ?? | |
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That's right. Take your little blue pill and go back to the Lie of life in the Matrix.
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Spider wrote:
Give me absolute proof that you exist. You cannot. Even if we met in person, you could be a delusion of my mind. You're going to hold that out to fellow human, and simultaneously argue that you have the correct and accurate lowdown on God? Can these discussions get any sillier? 
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Edited by
creativesoul
on
Fri 06/24/11 08:26 PM
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creative:
So your changing the earlier stance that God is unknowable, and now claiming - like spider - that He is partially knowable? Pan: Nope, didn't change my stance. What thought process led you to that conclussion? Your first claim was that He(God) is unknowable. That means unable to be known, cannot be known. Then you claimed the following... Knowing "of" God and some perceived atrributes is not impossible (IMO)... emphasis mine
If "God is unknowable" is a true statement then the above is false, because God cannot be known. We need not know everything about X in order to know something about X. For instance, we do not know everything about the universe, but we do know some things. Therefore, just because we do not know everything about the universe it does not make sense to say that the universe is "unknowable". The same holds with God. God is either knowable or not. If we know some things about God, then God is not unknowable. |
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You're going to hold that out to fellow human, and simultaneously argue that you have the correct and accurate lowdown on God? What? You are going to have to rephrase that. Can these discussions get any sillier?
I didn't think it was getting silly, annoying and redundant. You seem unfamiliar with the argument style called "raising the roof". I was revealing that JeannieBean's demand for "absolute proof" of God or really of anything else. |
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Edited by
creativesoul
on
Fri 06/24/11 08:32 PM
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creative:
If you do not know that it is an accurate picture, then you 'walk by faith' alone that the picture is true, yes? spider: No, not at all. That's quite the logical leap. There is a good deal of evidence and logic for the existence of the God of the Bible Hence the question mark... Let's look at the logic. What grounds your belief. Perhaps it be better put, how do you justify your belief that the picture of the God of the Bible is accurate? |
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I am not personally interested in what you believe about God Spider. You have cut me to the quick madam! What I want from anyone (Christian, Jew, Islam, Mormon, or whatever) is to present absolute irrefutable proof that Abraham, Joseph, Mary, Jesus, Joshua, and the "chosen people" existed. I say that the scripture was rewritten and these stories including the New Testament are all pure fiction. Give me absolute proof that you exist. You cannot. Even if we met in person, you could be a delusion of my mind. I don't care if you believe that I exist. I don't care what you believe. What I am saying, and not just to you, but to all Abrahamic religious zealots who are murdering each other as we speak, is that if you don't have absolute proof of the existence of these fictional characters listed above, then do not impose your politics or religion on anyone and claim it as true. Religion has for too long divided the people and been the tool for hatred and war. Cease and desist perpetrating lies and hatred or present proof that Abraham and Mary and Jesus existed and are not pure fiction. There are no chosen people. There are only tribes who slaughter one another. |
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I am not personally interested in what you believe about God Spider. You have cut me to the quick madam! What I want from anyone (Christian, Jew, Islam, Mormon, or whatever) is to present absolute irrefutable proof that Abraham, Joseph, Mary, Jesus, Joshua, and the "chosen people" existed. I say that the scripture was rewritten and these stories including the New Testament are all pure fiction. Give me absolute proof that you exist. You cannot. Even if we met in person, you could be a delusion of my mind. I don't care if you believe that I exist. I don't care what you believe. What I am saying, and not just to you, but to all Abrahamic religious zealots who are murdering each other as we speak, is that if you don't have absolute proof of the existence of these fictional characters listed above, then do not impose your politics or religion on anyone and claim it as true. Religion has for too long divided the people and been the tool for hatred and war. Cease and desist perpetrating lies and hatred or present proof that Abraham and Mary and Jesus existed and are not pure fiction. There are no chosen people. There are only tribes who slaughter one another. Well, there is the fact that you seem to be angry and I'm having a good time. So I think maybe it's you who is a murderous zealot who is killing someone right now. |
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creative:
So your changing the earlier stance that God is unknowable, and now claiming - like spider - that He is partially knowable? Pan: Nope, didn't change my stance. What thought process led you to that conclussion? Your first claim was that He(God) is unknowable. That means unable to be known, cannot be known. Then you claimed the following... Knowing "of" God and some perceived atrributes is not impossible (IMO)... emphasis mine
If "God is unknowable" is a true statement then the above is false, because God cannot be known. We need not know everything about X in order to know something about X. For instance, we do not know everything about the universe, but we do know some things. Therefore, just because we do not know everything about the universe it does not make sense to say that the universe is "unknowable". The same holds with God. God is either knowable or not. If we know some things about God, then God is not unknowable. I can't fix your logic... I don't understand where you get the idea that an "attribute of God" or "knowing of God" is God... |
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I can't fix your logic... I don't understand where you get the idea that an "attribute of God" or "knowing of God" is God...
Interesting. Explain to me, and others I presume, exactly how God's attributes can be known without knowing something about God? |
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I can't fix your logic... I don't understand where you get the idea that an "attribute of God" or "knowing of God" is God...
Interesting. Explain to me, and others I presume, exactly how God's attributes can be known without knowing something about God? Explain to me how the question can go from "knowing God" to "knowing about God"? Just like I "know about" you, yet I don't "know" you... You'll deny it, but I know your agenda, always have, always will... |
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No because you are simply baiting, and I refuse to take it. Anything I may say that contradicts what you've been told, you'll just dismiss. So there's no point. 
Go away! 'Batin'! Very very mature....... It's Friday, they are having a sale on senses of humor tomorrow at Walmart, you should check it out. Oh a pick up a copy of Idiocracy. I've seen it, and I get it, more than you might think. Not sure you do though...... |
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That's right. Take your little blue pill and go back to the Lie of life in the Matrix.
Nice, see two can play that game lol. |
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creative:
I guess the obvious question - to me at least - arises... If God cannot be known, then what grounds Christianity? Pan: For me in a nutshell... Psychic abilities (or at least perceived abilities)... Psychic abilities which cannot possibly know God? Like some Agnostics will say, they don't believe the human mind is capable of knowing God. If God is everywhere and everything, do you think your perception can encompass His entire being? Knowing "of" God and some perceived atrributes is not impossible (IMO), but to know God absolutely in this life and form seems impossible to me. This is true, but my problem is Christianity has it's roots in the fact that they believe God's ways can be known without a shadow of a doubt, and if anyone challenges them they are wrong by default. LOL! Show me where that is in Christianity.... Of course, no big surprise there. I'm not bothering, you won't accept it anyway. Because you can't... It's not in there... No because you are simply baiting, and I refuse to take it. Anything I may say that contradicts what you've been told, you'll just dismiss. So there's no point. You made the fallacious strawman statement and I'm the one who's baiting? I really don't understand why people can make a blanket statement about my faith and then refuse to back it up. Could it be because there's no actual proof of their claims? 
Not at all, just no proof you'll accept. |
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I am not personally interested in what you believe about God Spider. You have cut me to the quick madam! What I want from anyone (Christian, Jew, Islam, Mormon, or whatever) is to present absolute irrefutable proof that Abraham, Joseph, Mary, Jesus, Joshua, and the "chosen people" existed. I say that the scripture was rewritten and these stories including the New Testament are all pure fiction. Give me absolute proof that you exist. You cannot. Even if we met in person, you could be a delusion of my mind. I don't care if you believe that I exist. I don't care what you believe. What I am saying, and not just to you, but to all Abrahamic religious zealots who are murdering each other as we speak, is that if you don't have absolute proof of the existence of these fictional characters listed above, then do not impose your politics or religion on anyone and claim it as true. Religion has for too long divided the people and been the tool for hatred and war. Cease and desist perpetrating lies and hatred or present proof that Abraham and Mary and Jesus existed and are not pure fiction. There are no chosen people. There are only tribes who slaughter one another. Or more to the point, we are ALL chosen. There's no select group that's better than any other group, that's just a flat lie to divide the people against each other. |
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Edited by
Kleisto
on
Fri 06/24/11 08:55 PM
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double post again.
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I've seen it, and I get it, more than you might think. Not sure you do though...... I'm not going to have a pissing contest with you over who got the "message" of Idiocracy more. |
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Edited by
creativesoul
on
Fri 06/24/11 08:57 PM
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Pan,
You claimed that God is unknowable. Then you claimed that we can know God's attributes. I asked a simple question regarding the incoherency. How can we know anything about the attributes of God without by virtue of that and that alone knowing something about God. Justify your claims. |
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I've seen it, and I get it, more than you might think. Not sure you do though...... I'm not going to have a pissing contest with you over who got the "message" of Idiocracy more. I didn't "get it" at all... I did have fun laughing at all of the stupid people though! lol! |
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I've seen it, and I get it, more than you might think. Not sure you do though...... I'm not going to have a pissing contest with you over who got the "message" of Idiocracy more. I didn't "get it" at all... I did have fun laughing at all of the stupid people though! lol! That's the whole point. It was a look at US. |
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What grounds your belief that the biblical picture of God is accurate spider?
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