God would never want that. We are all guilty and destined to hell. Jesus has offered to take our punishment, but only if you are willing to do His work in this world. Why do so many non-Christians have a hard time imagining Heaven without unrepentant child molesters, murderers, rapists, thieves, etc?

That's not how it works.

1) If that is your source, it's 14 years old. Definitions for those sorts of things change.
2) Mine is a newer source and doesn't come from one German guy, but from the APA.
3) I can't find that quote anywhere on line, except in a couple comments and as the first line of the Wikipedia article, so I can't verify your source. You can Google my definition and read the page of the book in Google Books.

By any debate rules, your definition would be thrown out. I reject your definition and will continue to use the correct one.

great then we reject each other's definition. btw, here you don't tell me how things work. you don't make rules.

Don't worry, when I do I'll use small words.

in what kind of debate do you find such a tactic effective? do you derive your moral and ethical values that allow you to use such personal attacks in a simple forum from your religion???

You are accusing BILLIONS of people of being delusional, but you get diaper rash when somebody says "I'll use small words"? Some ego you have and thin skin to match.

Spidercmb, personal attacks are not allowed. Stick to the actual subject.

I wouldn't call people "delusional" but I would call them gullible.

Set aside your emotional attachment to your beliefs and try to think rationally just for a few minutes. Can you separate your fear and your emotion from your rational mind?

Can you look at information and facts in a clear and unbiased state of mind?

Do you want the real truth, or is it that you can't handle it?

This is as question every truth seeker has to ask them self eventually.

Number one, speak for your damn self. If you wanna believe this about yourself fine, but I don't. I am not guilty of what someone did 2,000 years ago or better, I reject that idea wholeheartedly. This is EXACTLY why people have such problems with you types, because you push your ideas of God onto those like me and Jeannie. You wanna talk persecution? That's a damn good example of it.

Second, how do you know, all things good and bad isn't a part of doing God's work? How do you know, that the entire experience isn't how God intended it, and that we all have a purpose and role in it even those that do bad? If you say I can't know God's ways, what makes you so sure you can? That statement works both ways you know.

Double post.

You may believe you are "destined" to hell and you may believe you are guilty but as Kleisto said, Speak only for yourself.

Jesus has not approached me to do any work for him in exchange to take away "my punishment" for anything. Even if he did, I would tell him, no thanks. I will be responsible for my own crimes thank you anyway.

Now if you want me to believe any of that, feel free to present indisputable proof that Jesus ever existed and that Abraham ever existed.

Otherwise, your statements are not credible.

You may believe that you are guilty and destined to hell, but I've never done anything in my entire life that would justify such a condemnation.

I'm truly sorry to hear that you feel that you have. That's all I know to tell you.

Wait just a minute here...

Kleisto has and most likely will continue to state what Christians believe.
When I asked for proof of his statements he runs and hides but he can chastise others for doing the exact same thing he does???

Hypocrisy runs rampant in these threads and here you are supporting it.

I am not Kleisto.

I don't state what others believe, and I don't care what others believe.

What I want is proof about what you claim is true.

And what do you think I claimed as true???

By "you" I am speaking of anyone who makes any claims about the Bible being true. Do you?

I will respond to this, by simply saying one thing. In general to be considered a true Christian, you must believe certain things. If you don't, you are not really a true Christian according to the belief systems. They are absolutes.

1) I did speak for myself. I stated my belief about humanity. I didn't say that you believe it. So this is what you call a Strawman Fallacy.

2) Because God isn't evil, that's how I know.

Do I what? Make claims about the Bible being true?


I thought you didn't care what others believed...

No problem. Someone has to keep an eye on you wetware programmer types, lest you think infinite loops could be run faster if only the hardware guys could give you faster cycle times.


-Kerry O.

Did I say you believed that? No, it's my belief. Stop the straw man fallacies, okay? They are conducive to a conversation.



This from a 9/11 truther who thinks Jews are space lizards.