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| Topic: the christian god ... loving or evil ?? | |
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God would never want that. We are all guilty and destined to hell. Jesus has offered to take our punishment, but only if you are willing to do His work in this world. Why do so many non-Christians have a hard time imagining Heaven without unrepentant child molesters, murderers, rapists, thieves, etc?
You may believe you are "destined" to hell and you may believe you are guilty but as Kleisto said, Speak only for yourself. Jesus has not approached me to do any work for him in exchange to take away "my punishment" for anything. Even if he did, I would tell him, no thanks. I will be responsible for my own crimes thank you anyway. Now if you want me to believe any of that, feel free to present indisputable proof that Jesus ever existed and that Abraham ever existed. Otherwise, your statements are not credible. Wait just a minute here... Kleisto has and most likely will continue to state what Christians believe. When I asked for proof of his statements he runs and hides but he can chastise others for doing the exact same thing he does??? I will respond to this, by simply saying one thing. In general to be considered a true Christian, you must believe certain things. If you don't, you are not really a true Christian according to the belief systems. They are absolutes. The problem is that nobody here outside of the Christians show any idea of what Christians really believe. You guys smear Christians constantly with claims that are absolutely false. |
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God would never want that. We are all guilty and destined to hell. Jesus has offered to take our punishment, but only if you are willing to do His work in this world. Why do so many non-Christians have a hard time imagining Heaven without unrepentant child molesters, murderers, rapists, thieves, etc?
You may believe you are "destined" to hell and you may believe you are guilty but as Kleisto said, Speak only for yourself. Jesus has not approached me to do any work for him in exchange to take away "my punishment" for anything. Even if he did, I would tell him, no thanks. I will be responsible for my own crimes thank you anyway. Now if you want me to believe any of that, feel free to present indisputable proof that Jesus ever existed and that Abraham ever existed. Otherwise, your statements are not credible. Wait just a minute here... Kleisto has and most likely will continue to state what Christians believe. When I asked for proof of his statements he runs and hides but he can chastise others for doing the exact same thing he does??? I will respond to this, by simply saying one thing. In general to be considered a true Christian, you must believe certain things. If you don't, you are not really a true Christian according to the belief systems. They are absolutes. The problem is that nobody here outside of the Christians show any idea of what Christians really believe. You guys smear Christians constantly with claims that are absolutely false. Name one that's false then. Do you not believe your way is the only way? |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Fri 06/24/11 05:54 PM
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By "you" I am speaking of anyone who makes any claims about the Bible being true. Do you? Do I what? Make claims about the Bible being true? I thought you didn't care what others believed... Please don't play games. I don't care what you "believe." What you believe and what I believe is NOT IMPORTANT. It is what we claim is true that needs to be proven beyond any reasonable doubt. As you know there are countless "beliefs." They can not all be "true." I think it is of paramount importance in this time in our history that we find out the truth. Therefore I will ask for proof of any claim. I will start with the Bible. As it stands, I claim that it is NOT TRUE. In order for me to change that 'belief' I must have proof. (not "faith" in the authority who wrote it.... no God did not write it.) If you can't prove a claim, I will not accept it as true. YOU can if you want. I just can't. I am willing to change what I believe IF I am shown convincing proof. |
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Number one, speak for your damn self. If you wanna believe this about yourself fine, but I don't. I am not guilty of what someone did 2,000 years ago or better, I reject that idea wholeheartedly. This is EXACTLY why people have such problems with you types, because you push your ideas of God onto those like me and Jeannie. You wanna talk persecution? That's a damn good example of it. Second, how do you know, all things good and bad isn't a part of doing God's work? How do you know, that the entire experience isn't how God intended it, and that we all have a purpose and role in it even those that do bad? If you say I can't know God's ways, what makes you so sure you can? That statement works both ways you know. 1) I did speak for myself. I stated my belief about humanity. I didn't say that you believe it. So this is what you call a Strawman Fallacy. 2) Because God isn't evil, that's how I know. 1. No you didn't, but you implied that everyone is guilty. You wanna say you believe it, THEN SAY IT, don't just lump everyone into the same boat. 2. I can say the very same thing for how I know what I know too. |
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God would never want that. We are all guilty and destined to hell. Jesus has offered to take our punishment, but only if you are willing to do His work in this world. Why do so many non-Christians have a hard time imagining Heaven without unrepentant child molesters, murderers, rapists, thieves, etc?
You may believe you are "destined" to hell and you may believe you are guilty but as Kleisto said, Speak only for yourself. Jesus has not approached me to do any work for him in exchange to take away "my punishment" for anything. Even if he did, I would tell him, no thanks. I will be responsible for my own crimes thank you anyway. Now if you want me to believe any of that, feel free to present indisputable proof that Jesus ever existed and that Abraham ever existed. Otherwise, your statements are not credible. Wait just a minute here... Kleisto has and most likely will continue to state what Christians believe. When I asked for proof of his statements he runs and hides but he can chastise others for doing the exact same thing he does??? I will respond to this, by simply saying one thing. In general to be considered a true Christian, you must believe certain things. If you don't, you are not really a true Christian according to the belief systems. They are absolutes. The problem is that nobody here outside of the Christians show any idea of what Christians really believe. You guys smear Christians constantly with claims that are absolutely false. Name one that's false then. Do you not believe your way is the only way? You made the claim... Show which certain things must be believed... just let go of the anger and actually search for the truth regarding your claims... |
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God would never want that. We are all guilty and destined to hell. Jesus has offered to take our punishment, but only if you are willing to do His work in this world. Why do so many non-Christians have a hard time imagining Heaven without unrepentant child molesters, murderers, rapists, thieves, etc?
You may believe you are "destined" to hell and you may believe you are guilty but as Kleisto said, Speak only for yourself. Jesus has not approached me to do any work for him in exchange to take away "my punishment" for anything. Even if he did, I would tell him, no thanks. I will be responsible for my own crimes thank you anyway. Now if you want me to believe any of that, feel free to present indisputable proof that Jesus ever existed and that Abraham ever existed. Otherwise, your statements are not credible. Wait just a minute here... Kleisto has and most likely will continue to state what Christians believe. When I asked for proof of his statements he runs and hides but he can chastise others for doing the exact same thing he does??? I will respond to this, by simply saying one thing. In general to be considered a true Christian, you must believe certain things. If you don't, you are not really a true Christian according to the belief systems. They are absolutes. The problem is that nobody here outside of the Christians show any idea of what Christians really believe. You guys smear Christians constantly with claims that are absolutely false. Name one that's false then. Do you not believe your way is the only way? You made the claim... Show which certain things must be believed... just let go of the anger and actually search for the truth regarding your claims... why should I even bother trying? You'll find a way to refute it anyway. There's no damn point. |
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By "you" I am speaking of anyone who makes any claims about the Bible being true. Do you? Do I what? Make claims about the Bible being true? I thought you didn't care what others believed... Please don't play games. I don't care what you "believe." What you believe and what I believe is NOT IMPORTANT. It is what we claim is true that needs to be proven beyond any reasonable doubt. As you know there are countless "beliefs." They can not all be "true." I think it is of paramount importance in this time in our history that we find out the truth. Therefore I will ask for proof of any claim. I will start with the Bible. As it stands, I claim that it is NOT TRUE. In order for me to change that 'belief' I must have proof. (not "faith" in the authority who wrote it.... no God did not write it.) If you can't prove a claim, I will not accept it as true. YOU can if you want. I just can't. I am willing to change what I believe IF I am shown convincing proof. I'm not playing games, I'm being literal. It's others who make the claims of truth, not I. You say Christians may be "destined" to hell, I say show me where you get your info. From a person? Or from your own reading and understanding? I'm exposing the lies, others are perpetuating them. "Hell" is a lie... So is "eternity" Find your own proof because I really do NOT care what others think. Just stop spreading the lies, k? |
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Number one, speak for your damn self. If you wanna believe this about yourself fine, but I don't. I am not guilty of what someone did 2,000 years ago or better, I reject that idea wholeheartedly. This is EXACTLY why people have such problems with you types, because you push your ideas of God onto those like me and Jeannie. You wanna talk persecution? That's a damn good example of it. Second, how do you know, all things good and bad isn't a part of doing God's work? How do you know, that the entire experience isn't how God intended it, and that we all have a purpose and role in it even those that do bad? If you say I can't know God's ways, what makes you so sure you can? That statement works both ways you know. 1) I did speak for myself. I stated my belief about humanity. I didn't say that you believe it. So this is what you call a Strawman Fallacy. 2) Because God isn't evil, that's how I know. 1. No you didn't, but you implied that everyone is guilty. You wanna say you believe it, THEN SAY IT, don't just lump everyone into the same boat. 2. I can say the very same thing for how I know what I know too. I BELIEVE THAT EVERYONE IS GUILTY. I didn't say that you believe you are guilty. All the difference in the world. Freedom of speech and all that jazz. You have a right to be offended, but you have no right to not be offended. |
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By "you" I am speaking of anyone who makes any claims about the Bible being true. Do you? Do I what? Make claims about the Bible being true? I thought you didn't care what others believed... Please don't play games. I don't care what you "believe." What you believe and what I believe is NOT IMPORTANT. It is what we claim is true that needs to be proven beyond any reasonable doubt. As you know there are countless "beliefs." They can not all be "true." I think it is of paramount importance in this time in our history that we find out the truth. Therefore I will ask for proof of any claim. I will start with the Bible. As it stands, I claim that it is NOT TRUE. In order for me to change that 'belief' I must have proof. (not "faith" in the authority who wrote it.... no God did not write it.) If you can't prove a claim, I will not accept it as true. YOU can if you want. I just can't. I am willing to change what I believe IF I am shown convincing proof. I'm not playing games, I'm being literal. It's others who make the claims of truth, not I. You say Christians may be "destined" to hell, I say show me where you get your info. From a person? Or from your own reading and understanding? I'm exposing the lies, others are perpetuating them. "Hell" is a lie... So is "eternity" Find your own proof because I really do NOT care what others think. Just stop spreading the lies, k? Ditto to you. |
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Number one, speak for your damn self. If you wanna believe this about yourself fine, but I don't. I am not guilty of what someone did 2,000 years ago or better, I reject that idea wholeheartedly. This is EXACTLY why people have such problems with you types, because you push your ideas of God onto those like me and Jeannie. You wanna talk persecution? That's a damn good example of it. Second, how do you know, all things good and bad isn't a part of doing God's work? How do you know, that the entire experience isn't how God intended it, and that we all have a purpose and role in it even those that do bad? If you say I can't know God's ways, what makes you so sure you can? That statement works both ways you know. 1) I did speak for myself. I stated my belief about humanity. I didn't say that you believe it. So this is what you call a Strawman Fallacy. 2) Because God isn't evil, that's how I know. 1. No you didn't, but you implied that everyone is guilty. You wanna say you believe it, THEN SAY IT, don't just lump everyone into the same boat. 2. I can say the very same thing for how I know what I know too. I BELIEVE THAT EVERYONE IS GUILTY. I didn't say that you believe you are guilty. All the difference in the world. Freedom of speech and all that jazz. You have a right to be offended, but you have no right to not be offended. But you didn't say that! You said: "we are all guilty", lumping everyone in with you. You wanna say you believe something, say it just like that then. Not that hard. |
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Spidercmb, personal attacks are not allowed. Stick to the actual subject. What personal attack did I make? Set aside your emotional attachment to your beliefs and try to think rationally just for a few minutes. Can you separate your fear and your emotion from your rational mind? I don't like to brag, but I'm on a whole different level of rationality than you. Simply put, I believe Jews are humans. I don't believe they are in a conspiracy to eat humans. I don't believe that 9/11 was an inside job. I've got rationality in spades. Can you look at information and facts in a clear and unbiased state of mind? I always do. Do you want the real truth, or is it that you can't handle it? 
This is as question every truth seeker has to ask them self eventually. I think you should ask yourself why do I believe this crap? |
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By "you" I am speaking of anyone who makes any claims about the Bible being true. Do you? Do I what? Make claims about the Bible being true? I thought you didn't care what others believed... Please don't play games. I don't care what you "believe." What you believe and what I believe is NOT IMPORTANT. It is what we claim is true that needs to be proven beyond any reasonable doubt. As you know there are countless "beliefs." They can not all be "true." I think it is of paramount importance in this time in our history that we find out the truth. Therefore I will ask for proof of any claim. I will start with the Bible. As it stands, I claim that it is NOT TRUE. In order for me to change that 'belief' I must have proof. (not "faith" in the authority who wrote it.... no God did not write it.) If you can't prove a claim, I will not accept it as true. YOU can if you want. I just can't. I am willing to change what I believe IF I am shown convincing proof. I'm not playing games, I'm being literal. It's others who make the claims of truth, not I. You say Christians may be "destined" to hell, I say show me where you get your info. From a person? Or from your own reading and understanding? I'm exposing the lies, others are perpetuating them. "Hell" is a lie... So is "eternity" Find your own proof because I really do NOT care what others think. Just stop spreading the lies, k? Ditto to you. You implying that I'm spreading lies? Show me once where I've lied, just one... I can prove my statements, can you prove yours? |
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But you didn't say that! You said: "we are all guilty", lumping everyone in with you. You wanna say you believe something, say it just like that then. Not that hard. Oh give me a break. WE ARE ALL GUILTY. When I say that, it's a statement of belief. If you looked at the 10 commandments and judged yourself by them, in that light, if you were honest, you couldn't help but find yourself guilty. I'm not going to preface everything I post with "I believe X". It's not going to happen. I'm sorry if this bothers you (and I really mean that), but I'm not going to change how I word my posts every time someone makes a frivolous complaint like this. |
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By "you" I am speaking of anyone who makes any claims about the Bible being true. Do you? Do I what? Make claims about the Bible being true? I thought you didn't care what others believed... Please don't play games. I don't care what you "believe." What you believe and what I believe is NOT IMPORTANT. It is what we claim is true that needs to be proven beyond any reasonable doubt. As you know there are countless "beliefs." They can not all be "true." I think it is of paramount importance in this time in our history that we find out the truth. Therefore I will ask for proof of any claim. I will start with the Bible. As it stands, I claim that it is NOT TRUE. In order for me to change that 'belief' I must have proof. (not "faith" in the authority who wrote it.... no God did not write it.) If you can't prove a claim, I will not accept it as true. YOU can if you want. I just can't. I am willing to change what I believe IF I am shown convincing proof. I'm not playing games, I'm being literal. It's others who make the claims of truth, not I. You say Christians may be "destined" to hell, I say show me where you get your info. From a person? Or from your own reading and understanding? I'm exposing the lies, others are perpetuating them. "Hell" is a lie... So is "eternity" Find your own proof because I really do NOT care what others think. Just stop spreading the lies, k? Ditto to you. You implying that I'm spreading lies? Show me once where I've lied, just one... I can prove my statements, can you prove yours? I'm not gonna bother getting into a debate with you, because no matter what I say, you'll find some way around it. You want me to prove things to you, show me you are able to listen. Otherwise, forget it. |
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But you didn't say that! You said: "we are all guilty", lumping everyone in with you. You wanna say you believe something, say it just like that then. Not that hard. Oh give me a break. WE ARE ALL GUILTY. When I say that, it's a statement of belief. If you looked at the 10 commandments and judged yourself by them, in that light, if you were honest, you couldn't help but find yourself guilty. I'm not going to preface everything I post with "I believe X". It's not going to happen. I'm sorry if this bothers you (and I really mean that), but I'm not going to change how I word my posts every time someone makes a frivolous complaint like this. Then don't get upset when people call you out for lumping them in with you, cause that won't stop either. |
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But you didn't say that! You said: "we are all guilty", lumping everyone in with you. You wanna say you believe something, say it just like that then. Not that hard. Oh give me a break. WE ARE ALL GUILTY. When I say that, it's a statement of belief. If you looked at the 10 commandments and judged yourself by them, in that light, if you were honest, you couldn't help but find yourself guilty. I'm not going to preface everything I post with "I believe X". It's not going to happen. I'm sorry if this bothers you (and I really mean that), but I'm not going to change how I word my posts every time someone makes a frivolous complaint like this. Then don't get upset when people call you out for lumping them in with you, cause that won't stop either. Fair enough, just more posts to ignore. |
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By "you" I am speaking of anyone who makes any claims about the Bible being true. Do you? Do I what? Make claims about the Bible being true? I thought you didn't care what others believed... Please don't play games. I don't care what you "believe." What you believe and what I believe is NOT IMPORTANT. It is what we claim is true that needs to be proven beyond any reasonable doubt. As you know there are countless "beliefs." They can not all be "true." I think it is of paramount importance in this time in our history that we find out the truth. Therefore I will ask for proof of any claim. I will start with the Bible. As it stands, I claim that it is NOT TRUE. In order for me to change that 'belief' I must have proof. (not "faith" in the authority who wrote it.... no God did not write it.) If you can't prove a claim, I will not accept it as true. YOU can if you want. I just can't. I am willing to change what I believe IF I am shown convincing proof. I'm not playing games, I'm being literal. It's others who make the claims of truth, not I. You say Christians may be "destined" to hell, I say show me where you get your info. From a person? Or from your own reading and understanding? I'm exposing the lies, others are perpetuating them. "Hell" is a lie... So is "eternity" Find your own proof because I really do NOT care what others think. Just stop spreading the lies, k? Ditto to you. You implying that I'm spreading lies? Show me once where I've lied, just one... I can prove my statements, can you prove yours? I'm not gonna bother getting into a debate with you, because no matter what I say, you'll find some way around it. You want me to prove things to you, show me you are able to listen. Otherwise, forget it. I don't want a debate, I want you to open your mind. Remember our first conversation when you were questioning the Bible? I told you not to take my word for anything, but to read it for yourself and make up your own mind. I told you to not believe anyone, remember? But I can't even get you to research the two words, "hell" and "eternity". mg started a thread called "English" which touches on this very problem. Don't worry about any debates, a strawman does not make a debate... As long as you spread uneducated fallacies about Christianity, I'll be here to ask for your proof... |
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Is the Christian God the God of Abraham?
Is He all powerful? Is He all knowing? Is He all good? |
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Is the Christian God the God of Abraham? Is He all powerful? Is He all knowing? Is He all good? "He" is unknowable... |
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Is the Christian God the God of Abraham? Is He all powerful? Is He all knowing? Is He all good? "He" is unknowable... If we can't know Him, what gives you any reason to say you can? |
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