100% FREE ONLINE DATING
sponsored links
Previous
| Topic: The Rapture Hmmmm | |
|---|---|
|
Edited by
MorningSong
on
Fri 07/18/08 02:56 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
the mystery of God's Word is.......it applies to every generation and speaks to every generation.....meaning.... as it spoke back then, it speaks now.... God's Word is the same... yesterday today forever again......as it spoke to the people back then .. it speaks now...and forever. see if you can try to grasp this now, Tribo. 
Hi MS, i do grasp what your stating. I'm not debating whether the bulk of gods word speaks to those today, if it did not, even the preterist would not be here as christians nor any others. What I'm fighting here is futurist takes on what lindsey, darby, scofield, hinn, hagee, tbn, 700 club, pat robertson and a myriad of other teachers are and have been teaching for 100+ yrs. that fly's not only in the face of your book and jesus, but just plain common sense reading of those things. unless you can put that totally aside and re-read it with a non futurist hard held view, none of you will see it does not say what your new age prophets state that it says. just try to read with keeping in mind who the audience is - whom is being told these things, who is asking the questions to begin with. not that difficult. |
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
feralcatlady
on
Fri 07/18/08 07:15 AM
|
|
Hmmm tribo and you assume that people have not studied or looked at other evidence.....to the contrary my good man....
Please read the scriptures as interpretation is also given. THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT John 16:13 was quoted to show that the Holy Spirit revealed things that are to come; so that no one may think we are out of order or wasting time in studying and discussing such things, even though they do not deal with immediate practice and duty. [34] ROBBING GOD Mal. 1:2 and 3:6 were quoted to show God's unchanging and unalterable love and care over Israel, eternal as himself. THE JEWS CONTINUE their unbelief 37Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. 38This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet: "Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"[g] 39For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere: 40"He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them."[h] 41Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him. 42Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved praise from men more than praise from God. John 12:37, 38 and Rom. 10:21 were cited to show that even Israel's rejection of Christ and of the gospel were foreseen from of old; yet the promises of the final conversion and restoration were made, and the assurances that Israel should not be cast off forever were given in full foreview of all Israel would do. Ps. 121:4 declares God's watchful care over that people, and explains why they have not perished and cannot perish as a nation before their restoration come. Jer. 30:11 was quoted for the same intent, as also the exceedingly emphatic passage, Jer. 31:35-37. Lev. 26:40-45 shows that though the worst come to the worst, God would not forget them nor the covenant he had made with their fathers; but in their repentance would take them up again, and would not abhor them nor destroy them utterly. That this had an application in the restoration from Babylon is not denied, but the promise was not thereby exhausted. HOW CAN THE FOLLOWING BE TRUE IF NOT ALL HAVE REPENTING....HMMMM CAN'T Deut. 4:27-31 goes even further and declares that in the latter days they most certainly will repent and return to their God; and so, of course, God would be enabled to fulfill all those great promises to them. This is brought out still more fully in the next passage, Deut. 30:1-10, in which their repentance and consequent restoration are plainly predicted. I call attention to the fact that the promises given there have never as yet been fulfilled. Since their great captivity Israel have never again possessed their land. They lived in it as tenants and servants for a while (Neh. 9:36, 37); and since then, for more than eighteen centuries, they have been scattered abroad, in a dispersion worse than any previous one, hunted, hated, persecuted, robbed, and distressed, in all the earth. But God will cause them to return to the land that be [35] gave to their fathers, "and they shall possess it." (Jer. 30:3.) This same passage, Deut. 30:6, as well as Ezek. 36:26-28, foretells a profound spiritual change in the nation, which will insure their perpetual obedience. Therefore, 2 Sam. 7:10 and Amos 9:15 could predict their everlasting settlement in the land, for there will be no more occasion to remove them. (Comp. Isa. 54:8-10.) Nothing like this has ever come to pass. The contingent that returned from Babylon quickly declined again, as is shown in Malachi, their last prophet; and what their condition was when Christ came four hundred years later every one knows, as also what awful judgments befell them subsequently. Now, of the other passages I cited, Isa. 1:24-27 and 4:1-6 and chapter 60 show the destined cleansing, renewal, and exaltation of Jerusalem (the context showing that the reference is to the same city, that once was wicked and was destroyed); and such is the fashion of this promised renewal and exaltation that it would not be possible to refer these prophecies to anything that has ever occurred in the past. This, therefore, is yet to be accomplished. It was shown that the future restoration of the city, the land, and the people itself will be so tremendous an act of God as to eclipse the memory of their marvelous redemption from Egypt (so declares Jer. 16:14, 15)--such a demonstration of almighty power as to be comparable only to the impossible and supernatural feat of the assembling and reviving of a valley full of dead, dry bones (Ezek. 37). Now, I believe that these declarations of God's word have a bearing upon the question whether Israel is to be nationally restored, and that they afford complete proof thereof. "God will keep his promises to do good as surely as he will keep his promises to do good as surely as he will keep his his promises to do evil to a people." Well, then: "Like as I [36] have brought all this great evil upon this people," says God, "so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them." (Jer. 32:42.) "This people" is Israel. "All this great evil" came upon the nation of Israel, literally and fully. That is undeniable. In just the same way and with the same exactitude will all these promises of return and restoration, which are peculiar to the nation of Israel, be fulfilled unto them. From that there is no appeal, for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it. In using the terms, "national conversion," I did not mean anything else than that the individuals constituting the nation would each and all accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and King. Whether they would be gathered in one place or whether they would accept him in their dispersion, whether within one day (as, comp. Isa. 66:8) or within some relatively short time, does not affect the question in any wise. It is not the time and place, nor the how and why, so much as the fact of the conversion of the entire nation," however or wherever accomplished, that is the essential point under consideration. This wonderful event is foretold in the New Testament also. "But the same fact [i. e., Israel's conversion to Christ] is plainly predicted by Christ and by the apostle Paul," "Christ, in his lamentation over Jerusalem, said: 'Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.' (Matt. 23:39.) But no unbelieving city could welcome the return of Christ in these words. It is implied that when Christ comes again, Jerusalem will say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of God,' and this necessarily implies that it will be occupied by a believing or a Christian population. Again, in predicting the fall of Jerusalem, Jesus said: 'Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.' (Luke 21:24.) This latter clause implies that the time for the Gentiles to tread Jerusalem under foot [37] will come to an end, after which it will be no longer trodden under foot; that is, oppressed by a foreign foe. After that, it must be a Jewish city and a free city. These two predictions of our Savior, although not as specific on the main point as those of the Old Testament prophets, are, by implication, equally unambiguous." In the eleventh of Romans, Paul tells of the rejection of the disobedient nation at the present time, and the hardening of their heart and the blinding of their eyes (verses 8-10); but is careful to point out (lest Gentile brethren become wise in their own conceit and lift themselves up against the Jews) that though Israel has stumbled, it was not unto a "fall," unto final ruin. In fact, it was because of their failure that salvation has gone out to the Gentiles, and that for the purpose of provoking Israel to jealousy. "Now if their fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?" Yea, Paul was the more diligent in his ministry among the Gentiles, that thereby he might have some little part in provoking Jews to jealousy. "For if the casting away of them is the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? (Rom. 11:11-15.) From this it appears as though Jews were deserving of very special attention, and as if the saving of Jews were the most practical and concentrated sort of missionary work, the most direct course toward the goal of worldwide blessing. As yet, it is only the remnant of Israel that is saved, and the nation on the whole rejected. But the apostle speaks of the ultimate receiving of the nation and the glorious result that will follow. The "receiving" of them will be like a resurrection to all the world. Will they some day be so "received?" Paul says: "I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part has [38] befallen Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in; and so all Israel shall be saved:1 even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; he shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: and this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." (Rom. 11:25-27.) The idea that Christianity [by which evidently he means the present order of things] being a new dispensation of the Holy Spirit to Jews and Gentiles under Christ, a dispensation not of the letter, but of Spirit, must continue until the 'fullness of the Gentiles' be consummated. But this clearly intimates that it is not to be forever, or to the final consummation of the drama of Christianity. That the Redeemer shall come out of Zion and turn away 'ungodliness'--impiety, the fuel of unbelief--'from Jacob'--is an express oracle indicative of some special and glorious interposition of the Lord Jesus--which may usher in what we usually call 'the personal reign of Christ'--the subjection of all nations to him." He adds that "of the moral certainty of such an interposition we should not dogmatically affirm in advance of a most cautious and prayerful investigation of both the Jewish and Christian oracles." 1. That the nation of Israel, scattered by God's hand, shall by his hand be recovered and regathered and restored to their own land. This is stated in so many words in Jer. 30:3; 31:10; and Isa. 11:11, 12. (See also Ezek. 36:24, 28.) 2. That they shall accept their Messiah, be converted and saved. This was shown from Hos. 3:4, 5; Deut. 30:6; Ezek. 26:26-28; and Rom. 11. 3. That all the blessings and promises shall come unto that people just as surely and as literally as their predicted punishments have come upon them. Jeremiah 32:42 alone, in my judgment, settles that. 4. That once so restored, they shall never again fall away or be removed from their land. This was brought out in connection with 2 Sam. 7:10 and Amos 9:15; Isa. 4:4, 5; Joel 3:17. 5. That their national conversion and restoration will be a blessing to all the world. This is evident from Isa. 55:5; Isa. 60; and Rom. 11:15. These clear and definite Scriptures (and they are but a fraction of what might be quoted and cited on this subject) could be controverted, so far as I see, upon only one of three grounds. 1. It might be said that the promises to Israel are conditional, and that Israel never fulfilled the conditions. 2. That they found their fulfillment in the past, in the return from the Babylonish captivity. 3. That they are to be taken figuratively, and spiritually applied to another people. [40] But such contentions are all forestalled in the promises themselves; for (1) the promises declare that the time is coming when Israel will turn to the Lord, and all conditions shall be met; (2) the facts show that these promises were NOT NOT NOT fulfilled in the return from the Babylonian captivity; and (3) that the good promised them will come upon them as certainly and exactly as their predicted evil has befallen them. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
tribo
on
Fri 07/18/08 08:31 AM
|
|
Hmmm tribo and you assume that people have not studied or looked at other evidence.....to the contrary my good man.... Please read the scriptures as interpretation is also given. THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT John 16:13 was quoted to show that the Holy Spirit revealed things that are to come; so that no one may think we are out of order or wasting time in studying and discussing such things, even though they do not deal with immediate practice and duty. [34] TRIBO: - again audiece revelence deb - john was talking to those present then, not us now. it still may talk to you and others now, but it was directed to that generation. ROBBING GOD Mal. 1:2 and 3:6 were quoted to show God's unchanging and unalterable love and care over Israel, eternal as himself. THE JEWS CONTINUE their unbelief 37Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. 38This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet: "Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"[g] 39For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere: 40"He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them."[h] 41Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him. 42Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved praise from men more than praise from God. TRIBO: - all of the old testamnet prophecys dealt with isreal either in captivity then or upon christ arrival later but not past that generation deb, it was either for then or near future, or for those at christ time. John 12:37, 38 and Rom. 10:21 were cited to show that even Israel's rejection of Christ and of the gospel were foreseen from of old; yet the promises of the final conversion and restoration were made, and the assurances that Israel should not be cast off forever were given in full foreview of all Israel would do. TRIBO: - Audience revelence again deb, both were talking to that generation, if you read paul especially you will see that there is only one way for the jews to grafted back in and thats by acceting christ either then or now, the jews today are still free to choose to believe in jesus, that has not changed, but "the fullness of the jews" is an ongoing thing and wil continue to be so, the zionist movement on the other hand and any attempts to rebuild the temple is not of god - the body of christ is the new temple of god and has been since Jesus died on the cross. There is no need for god to allow a rebuilding of such again. Ps. 121:4 declares God's watchful care over that people, and explains why they have not perished and cannot perish as a nation before their restoration come. Jer. 30:11 was quoted for the same intent, as also the exceedingly emphatic passage, Jer. 31:35-37. TRIBO:- again this is there way back from captivity and has nothing to do with end times scenarios. Lev. 26:40-45 shows that though the worst come to the worst, God would not forget them nor the covenant he had made with their fathers; but in their repentance would take them up again, and would not abhor them nor destroy them utterly. That this had an application in the restoration from Babylon is not denied, but the promise was not thereby exhausted. HOW CAN THE FOLLOWING BE TRUE IF NOT ALL HAVE REPENTING....HMMMM CAN'T TRIBO: - it is an ongoing thing deb just as salvation, it did not all "end" on christ return in that generation, it still continues on a one by one basis, its just there will be no parousia and rapture which is what i reffer to coming now. Deut. 4:27-31 goes even further and declares that in the latter days they most certainly will repent and return to their God; and so, of course, God would be enabled to fulfill all those great promises to them. This is brought out still more fully in the next passage, Deut. 30:1-10, in which their repentance and consequent restoration are plainly predicted. I call attention to the fact that the promises given there have never as yet been fulfilled. Since their great captivity Israel have never again possessed their land. They lived in it as tenants and servants for a while (Neh. 9:36, 37); and since then, for more than eighteen centuries, they have been scattered abroad, in a dispersion worse than any previous one, hunted, hated, persecuted, robbed, and distressed, in all the earth. But God will cause them to return to the land that be [35] gave to their fathers, "and they shall possess it." (Jer. 30:3.) TRIBO: your taking alot of figurative speech and making it literal deb, re read. This same passage, Deut. 30:6, as well as Ezek. 36:26-28, foretells a profound spiritual change in the nation, which will insure their perpetual obedience. Therefore, 2 Sam. 7:10 and Amos 9:15 could predict their everlasting settlement in the land, for there will be no more occasion to remove them. (Comp. Isa. 54:8-10.) Nothing like this has ever come to pass. The contingent that returned from Babylon quickly declined again, as is shown in Malachi, their last prophet; and what their condition was when Christ came four hundred years later every one knows, as also what awful judgments befell them subsequently. Now, of the other passages I cited, Isa. 1:24-27 and 4:1-6 and chapter 60 show the destined cleansing, renewal, and exaltation of Jerusalem (the context showing that the reference is to the same city, that once was wicked and was destroyed); and such is the fashion of this promised renewal and exaltation that it would not be possible to refer these prophecies to anything that has ever occurred in the past. This, therefore, is yet to be accomplished. It was shown that the future restoration of the city, the land, and the people itself will be so tremendous an act of God as to eclipse the memory of their marvelous redemption from Egypt (so declares Jer. 16:14, 15)--such a demonstration of almighty power as to be comparable only to the impossible and supernatural feat of the assembling and reviving of a valley full of dead, dry bones (Ezek. 37). TRIBO: again your taking israel to be jews, not new israel which is christ body the church, you confuse the two. your taking figurative things and making them apply to jews now or after the parousia. Now, I believe that these declarations of God's word have a bearing upon the question whether Israel is to be nationally restored, and that they afford complete proof thereof. "God will keep his promises to do good as surely as he will keep his promises to do good as surely as he will keep his his promises to do evil to a people." Well, then: "Like as I [36] have brought all this great evil upon this people," says God, "so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them." (Jer. 32:42.) "This people" is Israel. "All this great evil" came upon the nation of Israel, literally and fully. That is undeniable. In just the same way and with the same exactitude will all these promises of return and restoration, which are peculiar to the nation of Israel, be fulfilled unto them. From that there is no appeal, for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it. In using the terms, "national conversion," I did not mean anything else than that the individuals constituting the nation would each and all accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and King. Whether they would be gathered in one place or whether they would accept him in their dispersion, whether within one day (as, comp. Isa. 66:8) or within some relatively short time, does not affect the question in any wise. It is not the time and place, nor the how and why, so much as the fact of the conversion of the entire nation," however or wherever accomplished, that is the essential point under consideration. TRIBO: - again you see it as old fleshy israel when in truth its the new israel of jesus' body. Which of couse is made up of both jews and christians alike and will continue to be so. This wonderful event is foretold in the New Testament also. "But the same fact [i. e., Israel's conversion to Christ] is plainly predicted by Christ and by the apostle Paul," "Christ, in his lamentation over Jerusalem, said: 'Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. TRIBO: - jesus' lament is because he knew fleshy israels fate was sealed to destrution, the fig tree!! - The olive tree - spiritual israel, would be and consist of christians and jews alike, the new jerusalem and temple - christ bride and body. jesus cursed fleshy israel and prophcied its destruction, his lament was that they did not heads god words. ' (Matt. 23:39.) But no unbelieving city could welcome the return of Christ in these words. It is implied that when Christ comes again, Jerusalem will say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of God,' and this necessarily implies that it will be occupied by a believing or a Christian population. Again, in predicting the fall of Jerusalem, Jesus said: 'Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.' (Luke 21:24.) This latter clause implies that the time for the Gentiles to tread Jerusalem under foot [37] will come to an end, after which it will be no longer trodden under foot; that is, oppressed by a foreign foe. After that, it must be a Jewish city and a free city. These two predictions of our Savior, although not as specific on the main point as those of the Old Testament prophets, are, by implication, equally unambiguous." TRIBO, again you take jesus' sayings and make them apply as not intended, you and all others will not see that this is figurative, he is pointing to the church, the new israel and jerusalem. not flesh israel. In the eleventh of Romans, Paul tells of the rejection of the disobedient nation at the present time, and the hardening of their heart and the blinding of their eyes (verses 8-10); but is careful to point out (lest Gentile brethren become wise in their own conceit and lift themselves up against the Jews) that though Israel has stumbled, it was not unto a "fall," unto final ruin. In fact, it was because of their failure that salvation has gone out to the Gentiles, and that for the purpose of provoking Israel to jealousy. "Now if their fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?" Yea, Paul was the more diligent in his ministry among the Gentiles, that thereby he might have some little part in provoking Jews to jealousy. "For if the casting away of them is the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? (Rom. 11:11-15.) From this it appears as though Jews were deserving of very special attention, and as if the saving of Jews were the most practical and concentrated sort of missionary work, the most direct course toward the goal of worldwide blessing. As yet, it is only the remnant of Israel that is saved, and the nation on the whole rejected. But the apostle speaks of the ultimate receiving of the nation and the glorious result that will follow. The "receiving" of them will be like a resurrection to all the world. Will they some day be so "received?" Paul says: "I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part has [38] befallen Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in; and so all Israel shall be saved:1 even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; he shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: and this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." (Rom. 11:25-27.) TRIBO: - you continue to fail to see that it is the body of believers jews and pagans alike that christ and paul refer to. The idea that Christianity [by which evidently he means the present order of things] being a new dispensation of the Holy Spirit to Jews and Gentiles under Christ, a dispensation not of the letter, but of Spirit, must continue until the 'fullness of the Gentiles' be consummated. But this clearly intimates that it is not to be forever, or to the final consummation of the drama of Christianity. That the Redeemer shall come out of Zion and turn away 'ungodliness'--impiety, the fuel of unbelief--'from Jacob'--is an express oracle indicative of some special and glorious interposition of the Lord Jesus--which may usher in what we usually call 'the personal reign of Christ'--the subjection of all nations to him." He adds that "of the moral certainty of such an interposition we should not dogmatically affirm in advance of a most cautious and prayerful investigation of both the Jewish and Christian oracles." 1. That the nation of Israel, scattered by God's hand, shall by his hand be recovered and regathered and restored to their own land. This is stated in so many words in Jer. 30:3; 31:10; and Isa. 11:11, 12. (See also Ezek. 36:24, 28.) 2. That they shall accept their Messiah, be converted and saved. This was shown from Hos. 3:4, 5; Deut. 30:6; Ezek. 26:26-28; and Rom. 11. 3. That all the blessings and promises shall come unto that people just as surely and as literally as their predicted punishments have come upon them. Jeremiah 32:42 alone, in my judgment, settles that. 4. That once so restored, they shall never again fall away or be removed from their land. This was brought out in connection with 2 Sam. 7:10 and Amos 9:15; Isa. 4:4, 5; Joel 3:17. 5. That their national conversion and restoration will be a blessing to all the world. This is evident from Isa. 55:5; Isa. 60; and Rom. 11:15. These clear and definite Scriptures (and they are but a fraction of what might be quoted and cited on this subject) could be controverted, so far as I see, upon only one of three grounds. 1. It might be said that the promises to Israel are conditional, and that Israel never fulfilled the conditions. 2. That they found their fulfillment in the past, in the return from the Babylonish captivity. 3. That they are to be taken figuratively, and spiritually applied to another people. [40] But such contentions are all forestalled in the promises themselves; for (1) the promises declare that the time is coming when Israel will turn to the Lord, and all conditions shall be met; (2) the facts show that these promises were NOT NOT NOT fulfilled in the return from the Babylonian captivity; and (3) that the good promised them will come upon them as certainly and exactly as their predicted evil has befallen them. TRIBO: - all you state is that which you've been taught to accept, try reading from a point that who and what israel was which is flesh and which is spirit - till then you understand nothing to do with israel correctly as paul jesus or the othersd taught. you prove nothing s ofar but your own ignorace of your gods word. sorry PLEASE READ "ALL" INTERJECTIONS I'VE MADE IN POST ABOVE> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
TRIBO: - again audiece revelence deb - john was talking to those present then, not us now. it still may talk to you and others now, but it was directed to that generation. DEBBIE: No it was not......it was said that it will come......it has not as of yet...so that speaks directly to me NOW. ROBBING GOD Mal. 1:2 and 3:6 were quoted to show God's unchanging and unalterable love and care over Israel, eternal as himself. THE JEWS CONTINUE their unbelief 37Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. 38This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet: "Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"[g] 39For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere: 40"He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them."[h] 41Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him. 42Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved praise from men more than praise from God. TRIBO: - all of the old testamnet prophecys dealt with isreal either in captivity then or upon christ arrival later but not past that generation deb, it was either for then or near future, or for those at christ time. DEBBIE: See tribo this is where you are wrong....and I will tell you why.....When Christ came out of the tomb...not all saw him....only a select few...but if you look at revelation ALL WILL KNOW WHO HE IS.....THERE WILL NOT BE ONE PERSON ON EARTH THAT WILL NOT KNOW WHO HE IS...AND HE COMES ON A CLOUD TRIBO.......That has not happen yet....prophecy to be fullfilled.. John 12:37, 38 and Rom. 10:21 were cited to show that even Israel's rejection of Christ and of the gospel were foreseen from of old; yet the promises of the final conversion and restoration were made, and the assurances that Israel should not be cast off forever were given in full foreview of all Israel would do. DEBBIE: John 12:37 Even after Jesus had done all these miraculous signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. 38This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet: "Lord, who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?"[g] 39For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere: 40"He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn—and I would heal them."[h] 41Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him. 42Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved praise from men more than praise from God. TRIBO: - Audience revelence again deb, both were talking to that generation, if you read paul especially you will see that there is only one way for the jews to grafted back in and thats by acceting christ either then or now, the jews today are still free to choose to believe in jesus, that has not changed, but "the fullness of the jews" is an ongoing thing and wil continue to be so, the zionist movement on the other hand and any attempts to rebuild the temple is not of god - the body of christ is the new temple of god and has been since Jesus died on the cross. There is no need for god to allow a rebuilding of such again. DEBBIE: And as it was said then......It still applies now because even all of Isaiah's prophecies have not all been fulfilled. Especially regarding Israel. Ps. 121:4 declares God's watchful care over that people, and explains why they have not perished and cannot perish as a nation before their restoration come. Jer. 30:11 was quoted for the same intent, as also the exceedingly emphatic passage, Jer. 31:35-37. TRIBO:- again this is there way back from captivity and has nothing to do with end times scenarios. DEBBIE: But again it does apply to today...because still the Jews God's chosen are scattered and until they come back then Christ will not....So you see Tribo it does apply to now. And remember that Israel has been in turmoil and not in the hands of the rightful meaning the jews...so restoration has not happened as of yet. Lev. 26:40-45 shows that though the worst come to the worst, God would not forget them nor the covenant he had made with their fathers; but in their repentance would take them up again, and would not abhor them nor destroy them utterly. That this had an application in the restoration from Babylon is not denied, but the promise was not thereby exhausted. DEBBIE: Lets take the scripture as intended tribo...not just your version. 40 " 'But if they will confess their sins and the sins of their fathers—their treachery against me and their hostility toward me, 41 which made me hostile toward them so that I sent them into the land of their enemies—then when their uncircumcised hearts are humbled and they pay for their sin, 42 I will remember my covenant with Jacob and my covenant with Isaac and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land. 43 For the land will be deserted by them and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them. They will pay for their sins because they rejected my laws and abhorred my decrees. 44 Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them or abhor them so as to destroy them completely, breaking my covenant with them. I am the LORD their God. 45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors whom I brought out of Egypt in the sight of the nations to be their God. I am the LORD.' " DEBBIE.......This is saying that no matter what rebellion that the jews had...God will keep his convenant....And as their land....which is clearly stated is not theirs....again I say to you tribo....not fulfilled as of yet... I also hold true to what I said before. HOW CAN THE FOLLOWING BE TRUE IF NOT ALL HAVE REPENTING....HMMMM CAN'T TRIBO: - it is an ongoing thing deb just as salvation, it did not all "end" on christ return in that generation, it still continues on a one by one basis, its just there will be no parousia and rapture which is what i reffer to coming now. DEBBIE: Well the bible speaks different....may I suggest as I have done a very intense study of Revelation with a teacher that knows how to read and interpret scripture... Deut. 4:27-31 goes even further a nd declares that in the latter days they most certainly will repent and return to their God; and so, of course, God would be enabled to fulfill all those great promises to them. This is brought out still more fully in the next passage, Deut. 30:1-10, in which their repentance and consequent restoration are plainly predicted. I call attention to the fact that the promises given there have never as yet been fulfilled. Since their great captivity Israel have never again possessed their land. They lived in it as tenants and servants for a while (Neh. 9:36, 37); and since then, for more than eighteen centuries, they have been scattered abroad, in a dispersion worse than any previous one, hunted, hated, persecuted, robbed, and distressed, in all the earth. But God will cause them to return to the land that be [35] gave to their fathers, "and they shall possess it." (Jer. 30:3.) TRIBO: your taking alot of figurative speech and making it literal deb, re read. DEBBIE: IT IS WHAT IT IS......AND IT IS BACKED UP BY WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW..... This same passage, Deut. 30:6, as well as Ezek. 36:26-28, foretells a profound spiritual change in the nation, which will insure their perpetual obedience. Therefore, 2 Sam. 7:10 and Amos 9:15 could predict their everlasting settlement in the land, for there will be no more occasion to remove them. (Comp. Isa. 54:8-10.) Nothing like this has ever come to pass. The contingent that returned from Babylon quickly declined again, as is shown in Malachi, their last prophet; and what their condition was when Christ came four hundred years later every one knows, as also what awful judgments befell them subsequently. Now, of the other passages I cited, Isa. 1:24-27 and 4:1-6 and chapter 60 show the destined cleansing, renewal, and exaltation of Jerusalem (the context showing that the reference is to the same city, that once was wicked and was destroyed); and such is the fashion of this promised renewal and exaltation that it would not be possible to refer these prophecies to anything that has ever occurred in the past. This, therefore, is yet to be accomplished. It was shown that the future restoration of the city, the land, and the people itself will be so tremendous an act of God as to eclipse the memory of their marvelous redemption from Egypt (so declares Jer. 16:14, 15)--such a demonstration of almighty power as to be comparable only to the impossible and supernatural feat of the assembling and reviving of a valley full of dead, dry bones (Ezek. 37). TRIBO: again your taking israel to be jews, not new israel which is christ body the church, you confuse the two. your taking figurative things and making them apply to jews now or after the parousia. DEBBIE: I think it's a clear as the nose on your face tribo....but again eyes are not seeing, ears are closed...and that my sweet is fine.....But again it is what it is...And when Israel is given to it's rightful heirs....then and only then will all see and hear..... Now, I believe that these declarations of God's word have a bearing upon the question whether Israel is to be nationally restored, and that they afford complete proof thereof. "God will keep his promises to do good as surely as he will keep his promises to do good as surely as he will keep his his promises to do evil to a people." Well, then: "Like as I [36] have brought all this great evil upon this people," says God, "so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them." (Jer. 32:42.) "This people" is Israel. "All this great evil" came upon the nation of Israel, literally and fully. That is undeniable. In just the same way and with the same exactitude will all these promises of return and restoration, which are peculiar to the nation of Israel, be fulfilled unto them. From that there is no appeal, for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it. In using the terms, "national conversion," I did not mean anything else than that the individuals constituting the nation would each and all accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and King. Whether they would be gathered in one place or whether they would accept him in their dispersion, whether within one day (as, comp. Isa. 66:8) or within some relatively short time, does not affect the question in any wise. It is not the time and place, nor the how and why, so much as the fact of the conversion of the entire nation," however or wherever accomplished, that is the essential point under consideration. TRIBO: - again you see it as old fleshy israel when in truth its the new israel of jesus' body. Which of couse is made up of both jews and christians alike and will continue to be so. DEBBIE: Again tribo......take all the context of the scripture as to make it clear in your mind and heart.....Let's see Isaiah 66 Judgment and Hope 1 This is what the LORD says: "Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be? 2 Has not my hand made all these things, and so they came into being?" declares the LORD. "This is the one I esteem: he who is humble and contrite in spirit, and trembles at my word. 3 But whoever sacrifices a bull is like one who kills a man, and whoever offers a lamb, like one who breaks a dog's neck; whoever makes a grain offering is like one who presents pig's blood, and whoever burns memorial incense, like one who worships an idol. They have chosen their own ways, and their souls delight in their abominations; 4 so I also will choose harsh treatment for them and will bring upon them what they dread. For when I called, no one answered, when I spoke, no one listened. They did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me." 5 Hear the word of the LORD, you who tremble at his word: "Your brothers who hate you, and exclude you because of my name, have said, 'Let the LORD be glorified, that we may see your joy!' Yet they will be put to shame. 6 Hear that uproar from the city, hear that noise from the temple! It is the sound of the LORD repaying his enemies all they deserve. 7 "Before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son. 8 Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children. 9 Do I bring to the moment of birth and not give delivery?" says the LORD. "Do I close up the womb when I bring to delivery?" says your God. 10 "Rejoice with Jerusalem and be glad for her, all you who love her; rejoice greatly with her, all you who mourn over her. 11 For you will nurse and be satisfied at her comforting breasts; you will drink deeply and delight in her overflowing abundance." 12 For this is what the LORD says: "I will extend peace to her like a river, and the wealth of nations like a flooding stream; you will nurse and be carried on her arm and dandled on her knees. 13 As a mother comforts her child, so will I comfort you; and you will be comforted over Jerusalem." 14 When you see this, your heart will rejoice and you will flourish like grass; the hand of the LORD will be made known to his servants, but his fury will be shown to his foes. 15 See, the LORD is coming with fire, and his chariots are like a whirlwind; he will bring down his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For with fire and with his sword the LORD will execute judgment upon all men, and many will be those slain by the LORD. 17 "Those who consecrate and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following the one in the midst of [a] those who eat the flesh of pigs and rats and other abominable things—they will meet their end together," declares the LORD. 18 "And I, because of their actions and their imaginations, am about to come and gather all nations and tongues, and they will come and see my glory. 19 "I will set a sign among them, and I will send some of those who survive to the nations—to Tarshish, to the Libyans [c] and Lydians (famous as archers), to Tubal and Greece, and to the distant islands that have not heard of my fame or seen my glory. They will proclaim my glory among the nations. 20 And they will bring all your brothers, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the LORD -on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels," says the LORD. "They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the LORD in ceremonially clean vessels. 21 And I will select some of them also to be priests and Levites," says the LORD. 22 "As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the LORD, "so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD. 24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind." DEBBIE: NOW SEE TRIBO IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY WHEN THE LORD CAME OUT OF THE TOMB.....AGAIN VERY FEW SAW OR SPOKE TO HIM...BUT THE ABOVE MAKES IT VERY CLEAR THAT HE WILL BE BACK AND THOSE THAT SHUN HIM AND HIS PEOPLE WILL PAY...ALL MANKIND WILL BOW BEFORE HIM....NOW THAT RIGHT THERE SHOWS YOU BECAUSE IF IT HAD HAPPED LIKE YOU THOUGHT...THERE IS NO WAY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH THAT ALL MANKIND WILL NOW BEFORE HIM.......IT DOES NOT SAY PART OF FEW IT SAYS ALL ALL ALL MANKIND. This wonderful event is foretold in the New Testament also. "But the same fact [i. e., Israel's conversion to Christ] is plainly predicted by Christ and by the apostle Paul," "Christ, in his lamentation over Jerusalem, said: 'Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. TRIBO: - jesus' lament is because he knew fleshy israels fate was sealed to destrution, the fig tree!! - The olive tree - spiritual israel, would be and consist of christians and jews alike, the new jerusalem and temple - christ bride and body. jesus cursed fleshy israel and prophcied its destruction, his lament was that they did not heads god words. DEBBIE: WRONG WRONG WRONG.....BECAUSE WHEN CHRIST WAS HUNG ON THE CROSS HE TOOK THE SINS OF ALL......AND THUS FOR ALL THAT BELIEVE IN HIM WILL HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.... ' (Matt. 23:39.) But no unbelieving city could welcome the return of Christ in these words. It is implied that when Christ comes again, Jerusalem will say, 'Blessed is he that cometh in the name of God,' and this necessarily implies that it will be occupied by a believing or a Christian population. Again, in predicting the fall of Jerusalem, Jesus said: 'Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.' (Luke 21:24.) This latter clause implies that the time for the Gentiles to tread Jerusalem under foot [37] will come to an end, after which it will be no longer trodden under foot; that is, oppressed by a foreign foe. After that, it must be a Jewish city and a free city. These two predictions of our Savior, although not as specific on the main point as those of the Old Testament prophets, are, by implication, equally unambiguous." TRIBO, again you take jesus' sayings and make them apply as not intended, you and all others will not see that this is figurative, he is pointing to the church, the new israel and jerusalem. not flesh israel. DEBBIE: BUT THEN YOU NEED TO READ MATTHEW 24 AND BREAK IT DOWN TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS TOTALLY FOR NOW. In the eleventh of Romans, Paul tells of the rejection of the disobedient nation at the present time, and the hardening of their heart and the blinding of their eyes (verses 8-10); but is careful to point out (lest Gentile brethren become wise in their own conceit and lift themselves up against the Jews) that though Israel has stumbled, it was not unto a "fall," unto final ruin. In fact, it was because of their failure that salvation has gone out to the Gentiles, and that for the purpose of provoking Israel to jealousy. "Now if their fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?" Yea, Paul was the more diligent in his ministry among the Gentiles, that thereby he might have some little part in provoking Jews to jealousy. "For if the casting away of them is the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? (Rom. 11:11-15.) DEBBIE: Taken out of context once again..... All Israel Will Be Saved 25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27And this is[f] my covenant with them when I take away their sins."[g] DEBBIE SAYS: Israel has been all over the place....so therefore not fulfilled.....as it is stated (Israel will be saved) The idea that Christianity [by which evidently he means the present order of things] being a new dispensation of the Holy Spirit to Jews and Gentiles under Christ, a dispensation not of the letter, but of Spirit, must continue until the 'fullness of the Gentiles' be consummated. But this clearly intimates that it is not to be forever, or to the final consummation of the drama of Christianity. That the Redeemer shall come out of Zion and turn away 'ungodliness'--impiety, the fuel of unbelief--'from Jacob'--is an express oracle indicative of some special and glorious interposition of the Lord Jesus--which may usher in what we usually call 'the personal reign of Christ'--the subjection of all nations to him." He adds that "of the moral certainty of such an interposition we should not dogmatically affirm in advance of a most cautious and prayerful investigation of both the Jewish and Christian oracles." 1. That the nation of Israel, scattered by God's hand, shall by his hand be recovered and regathered and restored to their own land. This is stated in so many words in Jer. 30:3; 31:10; and Isa. 11:11, 12. (See also Ezek. 36:24, 28.) 2. That they shall accept their Messiah, be converted and saved. This was shown from Hos. 3:4, 5; Deut. 30:6; Ezek. 26:26-28; and Rom. 11. 3. That all the blessings and promises shall come unto that people just as surely and as literally as their predicted punishments have come upon them. Jeremiah 32:42 alone, in my judgment, settles that. 4. That once so restored, they shall never again fall away or be removed from their land. This was brought out in connection with 2 Sam. 7:10 and Amos 9:15; Isa. 4:4, 5; Joel 3:17. 5. That their national conversion and restoration will be a blessing to all the world. This is evident from Isa. 55:5; Isa. 60; and Rom. 11:15. These clear and definite Scriptures (and they are but a fraction of what might be quoted and cited on this subject) could be controverted, so far as I see, upon only one of three grounds. 1. It might be said that the promises to Israel are conditional, and that Israel never fulfilled the conditions. 2. That they found their fulfillment in the past, in the return from the Babylonish captivity. 3. That they are to be taken figuratively, and spiritually applied to another people. [40] But such contentions are all forestalled in the promises themselves; for (1) the promises declare that the time is coming when Israel will turn to the Lord, and all conditions shall be met; (2) the facts show that these promises were NOT NOT NOT fulfilled in the return from the Babylonian captivity; and (3) that the good promised them will come upon them as certainly and exactly as their predicted evil has befallen them. TRIBO: - all you state is that which you've been taught to accept, try reading from a point that who and what israel was which is flesh and which is spirit - till then you understand nothing to do with israel correctly as paul jesus or the othersd taught. you prove nothing s ofar but your own ignorace of your gods word. sorry DEBBIE: Tribo I have been taught because I searched....I have listen and asked God for truth...He gave it to me....He showed me, myself, and I......So no matter what you think.....He is in my heart, my soul, my life for all of eternity. And no matter what you say.......It is through God that all my answers come.....Not through my own agenda of what "I" think it should be as you do Tribo...... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
WOW, i had no idea anyone could be so blind deb, you are so ingrained in futurism you cannot see the forest for the trees, i leave you all to hope and wish your life and your childrens and grandchildrens lifes away, should they so follow you in your footsteps and teachings. My sincerist apologies for even bringing this subject back up.
i will leave you to your beliefs, tribo 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
WOW, i had no idea anyone could be so blind deb, you are so ingrained in futurism you cannot see the forest for the trees, i leave you all to hope and wish your life and your childrens and grandchildrens lifes away, should they so follow you in your footsteps and teachings. My sincerist apologies for even bringing this subject back up. i will leave you to your beliefs, tribo
And I have alot of evidence to show you just how right I am....lol.....just no time right now....but will....I can't tell you how awesome God's timing is.......I was doing the thread and bam my friend janet brought me some stuff to read.....hmmmmm all about what were talking about...coinsidence.....not on your life... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
WOW, i had no idea anyone could be so blind deb, you are so ingrained in futurism you cannot see the forest for the trees, i leave you all to hope and wish your life and your childrens and grandchildrens lifes away, should they so follow you in your footsteps and teachings. My sincerist apologies for even bringing this subject back up. i will leave you to your beliefs, tribo
And I have alot of evidence to show you just how right I am....lol.....just no time right now....but will....I can't tell you how awesome God's timing is.......I was doing the thread and bam my friend janet brought me some stuff to read.....hmmmmm all about what were talking about...coinsidence.....not on your life... not interested deb' along time ago i was in your shoes and i battled for your god, i've heard it all from the futurist view, so if you post dont expect a response, take it up with the pretersist. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
WOW, i had no idea anyone could be so blind deb, you are so ingrained in futurism you cannot see the forest for the trees, i leave you all to hope and wish your life and your childrens and grandchildrens lifes away, should they so follow you in your footsteps and teachings. My sincerist apologies for even bringing this subject back up. i will leave you to your beliefs, tribo
And I have alot of evidence to show you just how right I am....lol.....just no time right now....but will....I can't tell you how awesome God's timing is.......I was doing the thread and bam my friend janet brought me some stuff to read.....hmmmmm all about what were talking about...coinsidence.....not on your life... not interested deb' along time ago i was in your shoes and i battled for your god, i've heard it all from the futurist view, so if you post dont expect a response, take it up with the pretersist. please don't compare yourself to me......I hardly think you were anywhere near walking in my shoes...no offense....but has to call it like I see it. Well since this is my thread then maybe you might want to go some where else and post your nonsense.. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
WOW, i had no idea anyone could be so blind deb, you are so ingrained in futurism you cannot see the forest for the trees, i leave you all to hope and wish your life and your childrens and grandchildrens lifes away, should they so follow you in your footsteps and teachings. My sincerist apologies for even bringing this subject back up. i will leave you to your beliefs, tribo
And I have alot of evidence to show you just how right I am....lol.....just no time right now....but will....I can't tell you how awesome God's timing is.......I was doing the thread and bam my friend janet brought me some stuff to read.....hmmmmm all about what were talking about...coinsidence.....not on your life... not interested deb' along time ago i was in your shoes and i battled for your god, i've heard it all from the futurist view, so if you post dont expect a response, take it up with the pretersist. please don't compare yourself to me......I hardly think you were anywhere near walking in my shoes...no offense....but has to call it like I see it. Well since this is my thread then maybe you might want to go some where else and post your nonsense.. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" 4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains. of couse nations will fight each other that is called war and didn't the first war take place in Heaven ..also anytime there are a lot of people and not enough food a famine will occur and of course earthquakes is a part of nature ...this is common sense... not prophecy .. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
if all beings are as a field of wheat, then each see the sun, thru their own eyes, and grow strong from seeing it, along with the rain or tears that also need come from looking at it......
the commanding voices of instruction of self wisdom do as such to the wheat beside itself, but if each wheat was to look hardest to the left, or to the right, would it not grow sideways, and become bent, and not balanced and able to stand upright...... the truth if heard from one beside another, whisper what does not change what one wheat already knows, but adds more to the same already "seen", then this be true wisdom, that keep both still growing upight, neither needing each other more than the other, but both receiving strength and courage, leaving no need to look to the left or right, as it is known BOTH are advancing toward the same place, with eyes upward.........this make BOTH to grow stronger quicker.......peace |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" 4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains. of couse nations will fight each other that is called war and didn't the first war take place in Heaven ..also anytime there are a lot of people and not enough food a famine will occur and of course earthquakes is a part of nature ...this is common sense... not prophecy .. And your how sure of this? Because although I do agree with you that throughout history this is the case....Not like it is right now.....I was blown away when I was talking on another thread and it might of even been this one and I was talking about right from wrong....vs sin...oh sin thread...and I am appalled at the amount of people on this planet that don't really even go by right or wrong.....it's a sad sad state of affairs were in right now...Things are going on right now as I type that have never never been seen any other time in the history of the world. When 9 year old babies are gunned down, and brother against brother, this is an ugly ugly time........the earthquakes are greater killing more people then anytime in history.......hmmmm again funch-meister....are you sure !!!!! |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 07/27/08 02:49 PM
|
|
And your how sure of this? Because although I do agree with you that throughout history this is the case....Not like it is right now.....I was blown away when I was talking on another thread and it might of even been this one and I was talking about right from wrong....vs sin...oh sin thread...and I am appalled at the amount of people on this planet that don't really even go by right or wrong.....it's a sad sad state of affairs were in right now...Things are going on right now as I type that have never never been seen any other time in the history of the world. When 9 year old babies are gunned down, and brother against brother, this is an ugly ugly time........the earthquakes are greater killing more people then anytime in history.......hmmmm again funch-meister....are you sure !!!!!
You would be better off by not focusing on the bad things going on in the world, as in doing so you only perpetuate them by putting them into the collective consciousness. If you look at history, true history, you will find unspeakable brutality beyond your wildest nightmares, very possibly worse than anything you find happening today. But true history and the horrors committed are not always revealed in history books, but can be found in looking at ancient torture devices used by religious puritans. I saw a documentary on television of a torture device that was used by a man on his wife if she got too verbal and disagreeable with her husband or spoke her mind too much. I find it unbelievable some of the unspeakable things people would do to each other with the excuse and in the name of obedience to God. No, I think I would much rather be living today than in the past or in the dark ages of puritans. JB |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
feralcatlady
on
Sun 07/27/08 03:09 PM
|
|
I don't like to look at the ugly of the world truly JB...I am one that turns off the news...but sometimes you can't escape it...I think one of the hardest ones for me living in LA is the children killing other children......It's like so many have become callous to right and wrong...or just don't give a rats ass anymore.....I find it so heartbreaking...and on many occasions it's taken me to my knees...where I am just begging God to stop this nonsense......Even though I know in my heart of hearts it's the human race bringing it upon themselves.....I look at the corruption and the wordly ways of doing things and I literally get sick...
I don't think with the exception of brutal barbarian killings was it ever like it is now. We had 16 kids between the ages of 5 and 14 die of gang relating shootings.....In one week...This is so so very wrong to me......and should be to all.... I agree also JB as far as the torture devices....But is this the same as having girls as young as 6 in Cambodia being sex slaves....oral sex for $30 or two for $60.00 These are God's precious children.....and not to mention the brutality to women right now all over the world.....I can't hide my head in the sand so I am active in stopping this nonsense......The self mutilation to the woman of Africa.....and for what......so men can be sure they are virgins.....it is just appalling.....Also the countless men that have held girls and women prisoners for up to 5 years beating and raping them and as you said JB using torture devices on them. I honestly believe if any man uses any torture device on his wife or anyone that is not in the name of God...and goes against God's laws.....A woman had her place in old testament law.....but torturing her was never one of God's laws and if someone led you to believe so......it was just wrong....There is a difference between be subservient to your husband and being beaten and tortured...God would never. And look at the history again JB then google some of what I am talking about.......You my sweet lady are very very wrong.....there is no way even 25 years ago kids would ever have to endure what they do today....and I am not just speaking as an observer but one who also is an activist... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" 4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains. of couse nations will fight each other that is called war and didn't the first war take place in Heaven ..also anytime there are a lot of people and not enough food a famine will occur and of course earthquakes is a part of nature ...this is common sense... not prophecy .. And your how sure of this? Because although I do agree with you that throughout history this is the case....Not like it is right now.....I was blown away when I was talking on another thread and it might of even been this one and I was talking about right from wrong....vs sin...oh sin thread...and I am appalled at the amount of people on this planet that don't really even go by right or wrong.....it's a sad sad state of affairs were in right now...Things are going on right now as I type that have never never been seen any other time in the history of the world. When 9 year old babies are gunned down, and brother against brother, this is an ugly ugly time........the earthquakes are greater killing more people then anytime in history.......hmmmm again funch-meister....are you sure !!!!! "Feralcatlady" you seem to have forgotten your own bible history ..probably the most horrible war in history was the one fought in Heaven between Satan and God and the first Brother against Brother was Cain and Abel and instead of children being gunned down in the streets they were intentionly stone to death or sacrificed .. earthquakes kills more people because there are more people today to kill but you seem to forget the great flood that killed everyone but a handful ... so yes I'm sure that times are no worster today than back in them bibical days it's just that today everything that take place is well documented and with the use of technology it can be broadcasted around the world meaning more people would know about it ...back in the bibical days there were only stories told from travelers which would take months if not years to reach them |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
i have not read all that is saaid but the heading says enough to start to comment on.
The Rapture. here is another theory and name for that came from a false prophet. Miller from the 1840's Who lead thousands to sell all they had for this coined word Rapture. When it did not happen the 1st time he did as they do today also. He got something wrong. He did not understand the creator correctly. Which i would like to know what prophet ever said such a thing? So Why do we want to make such a doctrine from a false prophet? funches i have 1 question for u. Can you tell me where it says Satan and Yahweh had a great battle? I am lost on that one. Blessings...Miles |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" 4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains. of couse nations will fight each other that is called war and didn't the first war take place in Heaven ..also anytime there are a lot of people and not enough food a famine will occur and of course earthquakes is a part of nature ...this is common sense... not prophecy .. And your how sure of this? Because although I do agree with you that throughout history this is the case....Not like it is right now.....I was blown away when I was talking on another thread and it might of even been this one and I was talking about right from wrong....vs sin...oh sin thread...and I am appalled at the amount of people on this planet that don't really even go by right or wrong.....it's a sad sad state of affairs were in right now...Things are going on right now as I type that have never never been seen any other time in the history of the world. When 9 year old babies are gunned down, and brother against brother, this is an ugly ugly time........the earthquakes are greater killing more people then anytime in history.......hmmmm again funch-meister....are you sure !!!!! "Feralcatlady" you seem to have forgotten your own bible history ..probably the most horrible war in history was the one fought in Heaven between Satan and God and the first Brother against Brother was Cain and Abel and instead of children being gunned down in the streets they were intentionly stone to death or sacrificed .. earthquakes kills more people because there are more people today to kill but you seem to forget the great flood that killed everyone but a handful ... so yes I'm sure that times are no worster today than back in them bibical days it's just that today everything that take place is well documented and with the use of technology it can be broadcasted around the world meaning more people would know about it ...back in the bibical days there were only stories told from travelers which would take months if not years to reach them No I have not forgotten......but were talking a way way different scale...I can't even imagine I am getting argument on this.....shows me truly the state this world is in.....in makes me weep. But again funch you are talking about people who would not listen and so did God have a choice? But no a days these kids have choices, these parents that sell their kids for a few measly dollars to the sex trade......wth is that......I would rather be on the street begging then to sell my children into a life like that......It is not comparable to me......If you guys think there is no difference then so be it......But I think there is....especially when it comes to the children. Never as before in history is brother against brother it is in revelation..... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
funches i have 1 question for u. Can you tell me where it says Satan and Yahweh had a great battle? I am lost on that one. Blessings...Miles when debating religion you have to stick with the belief .."Feralcatlady is a christian so according to Christianity God aka "Yahweh" fought Satan ... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
i have not read all that is saaid but the heading says enough to start to comment on. The Rapture. here is another theory and name for that came from a false prophet. Miller from the 1840's Who lead thousands to sell all they had for this coined word Rapture. When it did not happen the 1st time he did as they do today also. He got something wrong. He did not understand the creator correctly. Which i would like to know what prophet ever said such a thing? So Why do we want to make such a doctrine from a false prophet? funches i have 1 question for u. Can you tell me where it says Satan and Yahweh had a great battle? I am lost on that one. Blessings...Miles I'm not answering for Funches, but i had posted that some time ago on another post it is from isaiah where Lucifer is talked of - since then woody says that some believe this but not others, so it is just a statement without basis, I'm sure you have your own take on it also. wouldee said it was about the king mentioned i read where it was of Satan before his fall and his pride and saying i will ascend to be like the most high - personally i believe it could have been both - an allegory and a physical reality as well - it is the only mention of Lucifer in the book. so there is nothing to compare it with unless you have Hebrew scripture that goes into greater detail on this. |
|
|
|
|
