100% FREE ONLINE DATING
sponsored links
Previous
| Topic: The Rapture Hmmmm | |
|---|---|
|
Edited by
tribo
on
Thu 07/17/08 08:44 PM
|
|
deb, take a close look at revelations - chpt.22 vs 10. i know you'll read everything in context. but think on this - if many of the writers ( historians) agree that revelations was written before AD 70 - then why would Jesus state this to john? " vs:10
And he sayeth unto me (john) - Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND - ?? this really would not make sense even if it was written for now - would it? 
there are things like this through out the new testament if you would just look at it from an historic view of who the audience was receiving the info and historical facts of what happened leading up to the destruction of jerusalem. now the church is to be christ testament on earth, and when you die you go to be with your god - period, there are no rapture or other things left just dieing and going to be with jesus for you, that's all im saying. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel's call and with the sound of God's trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. (NRSV, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel's call and with the sound of God's trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. (NRSV, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17) Thank you... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel's call and with the sound of God's trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. (NRSV, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17) That's awesome, you nuked the preterist heresay with a single quote of scripture. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Of course it makes sense....At time at hand does not seal it to A.D. 70 my friend. It is saying DO NOT SEAL....because it had not happen yet...so it makes sense...h e l l o
vs. 10 Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. 11Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy." This is referring to Jesus coming.....This means it is not done....for all the prophecy has not been fulfilled.....It is saying keep in your ways of evil and turning your back on the Christ Jesus.....What do you think it mean tribo? What do you think will happen to all that shun the Father and his Son. "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. Tell me what the above scripture is saying to you tribo........ It is not over......because believe me if you think that Jesus dying and coming back was the all in all.....you my friend are delusional. Also did you bother to look at the historical facts that it has not happen yet....I have over and over given those historical facts. And it's way more then dying tribo and just going to heaven. If you disobedient unto the Lord....what you think oh ok I just die and thats it....Lessons are to be learned my friend....and when all on earth have heard his gospel those that listen will go to heaven and those that disobey will surly be left for the 7 year tribulation in which Christ will come on a cloud and not one person on this planet will not know who he is. This has not ever ever happen....and he will take all of his church... Point in case....in your theory then all the people had heard the gospel...well my friend that just is not so.....Not even close to it is today and the missionary field proves this...They are reaching many many people that had never heard of Christ....you think this is what? Jesus will not come back until every person has heard of him.....Not even 200 years ago was this the case my friend....I know I am a missionary and see this with my own eyes. And what is left is just beyond my comprehension..... Now if you want to believe that all their is to life is to live and then die....well ok then......But please don't think for a minute that I would ever believe that ever....not happening...... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
But "WE" do not want "YOU" to be uninformed, ""brothers and sisters"", about those who have died, so that ""you"" may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we ""declare to you"" by the word of the Lord, that ""we who are alive"", ""who are left until the coming of the Lord"", will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel's call and with the sound of God's trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. """Then we who are alive"""", who are left, ""will be"" caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. (NRSV, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17) quote marks above are mine!! " AUDIENCE REVELENCE" dear BJ, all that was being stated was to those paul was writing to then before AD 70. he is calming them because some were saying even then the rapture had taken place. that is why he says WE WHO ARE ALIVE - WHO? - them the apostles and new believers along with the dead in Christ up to that point. there is not one piece of this that refers to this taking place beyond that generation, not one! sorry. if paul thought he might even be alive, which is clear in the statement by his words "we who ARE alive, even he did not know when jesus was coming and he would have to watch and wait just as the others for all the signs to appear - trouble is lindsey and others have brain washed you to believe it is some where future, but its not. it was then, sorry. but dont worry when you die you will go to your god immediately anyway if thats what you believe. so everythings ok, |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
deb, it was for that time - before ad 70 even what you think jesus is saying was before ad 70. so therefore nothing is out of place except futurist teachings.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
deb
Tell me what the above scripture is saying to you tribo........ its saying to me that all that happened then and because you still have access to the book your being blessed now also - but it does not mean any rapture is coming or other - that happened then. so enjoy your blessings that you have now and when you die you'll be with him. stop spreading false teachings.  
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
deb Tell me what the above scripture is saying to you tribo........ its saying to me that all that happened then and because you still have access to the book your being blessed now also - but it does not mean any rapture is coming or other - that happened then. so enjoy your blessings that you have now and when you die you'll be with him. stop spreading false teachings.
and you just believe that tribo......... |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
deb
and when all on earth have heard his gospel those that listen will go to heaven and those that disobey will surly be left for the 7 year tribulation in which Christ will come on a cloud and not one person on this planet will not know who he is. This has not ever ever happen....and he will take all of his church... tribo: i've already shown that paul told others that the word had been preahes to the whole world as they knew it to exsist then - not now -then! but you keep putting on the futurist view that it means the world as we know it now. your wrong even paul says your wrong. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
tribo
on
Thu 07/17/08 11:04 PM
|
|
deb Tell me what the above scripture is saying to you tribo........ its saying to me that all that happened then and because you still have access to the book your being blessed now also - but it does not mean any rapture is coming or other - that happened then. so enjoy your blessings that you have now and when you die you'll be with him. stop spreading false teachings.
and you just believe that tribo......... no i don't JUST believe it deb, i think that it makes perfect sense of your book though than futurist beliefs ever will, you force symbolic things to be literal and and those that are not to be symbolic, as i said - its not my belief at all - it just makes sense - futurist beliefs do not. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
no i dont JUST believe it deb, i think that it makes perfect sense of your book though than futurist beliefs ever will, you force symbolic things to be literal nad and thse that are not to be symbolic, asi said - its not my belief at all - it just makes sense - futurist beliefs do not. If it makes so much sense, why don't you believe it? Why argue about it if you don't have a dog in the fight? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
deb
Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. 11Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy." This is referring to Jesus coming.....This means it is not done....for all the prophecy has not been fulfilled.....It is saying keep in your ways of evil and turning your back on the Christ Jesus.....What do you think it mean tribo? What do you think will happen to all that shun the Father and his Son. tribo if as i said revelations was written before AD 70 it makes perfect sense that he is still talking of what was going on then - not some future events - "let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy." do you not think that people were acting that way before AD 70?? of course they were, what makes you think this is just for now?? are we still acting such? of course we are and will continue to do so, but this has nothing to do with some rapture or parousia. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
no i dont JUST believe it deb, i think that it makes perfect sense of your book though than futurist beliefs ever will, you force symbolic things to be literal nad and thse that are not to be symbolic, asi said - its not my belief at all - it just makes sense - futurist beliefs do not. If it makes so much sense, why don't you believe it? Why argue about it if you don't have a dog in the fight? oh i do have a dog in the fight as you put it spider, it is this, people being so blind to others interpretations that they will not even consider they might be wrong terribly wrong i'm much that way in everything not just this, i can put up with ignorance all day long but stupidity i cant stand much as you say to others also. i write on many subjects but here the views are almost 100% futurist and you have not even looked closely at other evidence within your own belief system, thats all. until you do this will be a reoccuring theme with me. sorry - |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
no i dont JUST believe it deb, i think that it makes perfect sense of your book though than futurist beliefs ever will, you force symbolic things to be literal nad and thse that are not to be symbolic, asi said - its not my belief at all - it just makes sense - futurist beliefs do not. If it makes so much sense, why don't you believe it? Why argue about it if you don't have a dog in the fight? oh i do have a dog in the fight as you put it spider, it is this, people being so blind to others interpretations that they will not even consider they might be wrong terribly wrong i'm much that way in everything not just this, i can put up with ignorance all day long but stupidity i cant stand much as you say to others also. i write on many subjects but here the views are almost 100% futurist and you have not even looked closely at other evidence within your own belief system, thats all. until you do this will be a reoccuring theme with me. sorry - Tell me what I have to read, so that you will stop posting this crap. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Let's see For it is written..... For it is so.......... Let's break it down...And make it clear Matthew 24 Signs of the End of the Age 1Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2"Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down." tribo: - audience the deciples - temple was destroyed in AD 70 ANSWER: At this time the temple is their in all it's splendor and all it grace. No the next part where Jesus tell his disciples. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; ever one will be thrown down." This is Prophecy by Jesus to his disciples regarding the destruction of the temple by the Romans. The temple was destroyed 38 years after Jesus was crucified. tribo - CORRECT 3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" 4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8All these are the beginning of birth pains. TRIBO: - that no one decieves WHO? - YOU - the deciples!! and many came in his name before AD 70.claiming to be the messiah, the christ. there were plenty of wars and rumors of before AD 70. yep all the famine and earth quakes took plce then and yes they continue even today but keep in mind the audience deb - the deciples!! not you! not now then! ANSWER: There are many false prophets, many ugly wars, World War 1 and 2 earthquakes now just all over claiming many many lifes.....the key to the above scripture is this is the "beginning" of birth pains....meaning that for all the nasty that we have already had....wars, world trade center, floods, typhoons, fires....this is just the beginning. 9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, -( they were all before AD 70 ) and you will be hated by all nations because of me.(which they also were - who - the deciples) 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. ( which agian happened to the people then not now) 12Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. (And they were by AD 70) he those then who stand firm) 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. Paul states the goslpel had been preached to the ends of the earth/world as they understod its boundries then, read it yourself. ANSWER: The above verse,first line is referring to all the jewish people. (God's Chosen) who turned away from God. They turned away. Another key verse that so applies to now. In verse 14 The gospel will be preached in the "whole world" as a testimony to all nations, "AND THEN THE END WILL COME. YEP - it sure did AD 70!! 15"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. 18Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. 19How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time. AND - that all happened in AD 70 read Jocephas wars 4 years before the fall till AD 70. ANSWER: Big huge key.....as you read first line of vs. 15. So when you see standing in the holy place (The temple) Which still to this day is destroyed.....so therefore can not until the temple is rebuilt which has not happen....prophecy to be fulfilled. And to rebuke the 70 AD theory. From 70 AD to present no temple so therefore has not happened "YET" read history it did deb. Also not in vs 21 For then there will be great distress unequaled for the beginning of the world until now-never to be equaled again. So for all the bad we have had up to this point...What happens when the rapture begins will be so far worse then in thing since the beginning and NEVER to be equaled..... 29"Immediately after the distress of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'[c] 30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. read history deb. ANSWER: 29-31 Right before the triulation many things will happen. Vs 29 the sun will darken the moon will not give it's light, the stars will fall from the sky and the heavenly bodies will be shaken....vs 30 AND THEN JESUS WILL COME.....THIS IS SOMETHING THAT NO HUMAN BEING WILL DENY IS HAPPENING. IT WILL BE SOOOOOO HUGE........AND THEN THE SEVEN YEAR TRIBULATION WILL BEGIN. thats not only happened its happened more than once!! 36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. yep, yep, yep, history every bit of it already happened. 42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. True they did not know the exact day or hour, does not negate that it came AD70. read my fill ins above deb dear. thnx |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
no i dont JUST believe it deb, i think that it makes perfect sense of your book though than futurist beliefs ever will, you force symbolic things to be literal nad and thse that are not to be symbolic, asi said - its not my belief at all - it just makes sense - futurist beliefs do not. If it makes so much sense, why don't you believe it? Why argue about it if you don't have a dog in the fight? oh i do have a dog in the fight as you put it spider, it is this, people being so blind to others interpretations that they will not even consider they might be wrong terribly wrong i'm much that way in everything not just this, i can put up with ignorance all day long but stupidity i cant stand much as you say to others also. i write on many subjects but here the views are almost 100% futurist and you have not even looked closely at other evidence within your own belief system, thats all. until you do this will be a reoccuring theme with me. sorry - Tell me what I have to read, so that you will stop posting this crap. try reading your own book and and putting audience revelence to each area where the rapture and parousia are mentioned, who is being told these things who are the recievers of what christ or the apostles are talking of and to. take into account History of the time od AD 66 and before by josephus and others esubius so forth,try reading it from the perspective of it being given and promised to "THAT" or "THIS" generation as jesus states over and over again. it was meant for then - not now. jos |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ok going to bed its 2:10 am here night guys
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Thu 07/17/08 11:58 PM
|
|
I think it makes a lot of sense that these things were spoken for the people who were listening at that time. Why would they be concerned about something that would happen 2000 years in the future even if they believed the person to be a prophet?
They were worried about their own lives. They wanted to know what was going to happen to them. Even today, what would anyone care about a prophecy meant for people thousands of years into the future? Even the people on the 700 club keep talking about Jesus's return VERY SOON, IN THEIR LIFETIME. They would not be so excited if they felt sure it would not happen for another 2000 years. They continue to look for signs that it will happen very soon, and in their lifetime. How many lifetimes have come and gone... guess what... no second coming. If anything is coming it is a giant solar flare that could burn the earth to a crisp in 2012.  I hope I didn't ruin your day.
Don't worry, we will all go to heaven.  Yep, even me. 
JB |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
MorningSong
on
Fri 07/18/08 02:34 AM
|
|
the mystery of God's Word is.......it applies to every generation and speaks to every generation.....meanig....
as it spoke back then, it speaks now.... God's Word is the same... yesterday today forever again......as it spoke to the people back then .. it speaks now...and forever. see if you can try to grasp this now, Tribo. 
|
|
|
|
|
