Wow... I know that I think too much but that's a lot!
Aren't all relationships different.
Different expectations, needs/wants/desires, trusts given, loyalties maintained(or not).

btw, how do you establish those certain limitations that you speak of? DO you openly talk it out... make lists and such. Or just kinda' intuit things?

It was... and I'm glad that you enjoyed getting them.
A gift from the heart...

This seems like wisdom...

That's not been my experience.
I do think that there's a inherent nature for people
to try to help people that aren't functioning well to
simply function... nuthin' wrong in that.
But I don't see so much love and forgiveness given to
them that I'd call it "more" than what's given to others.
idk

Loved it!
I moment of doubt can sometimes move us into action.

An awesome write...
Dark nights of the soul that stretch on endlessly.
Very moving, indeed.

I agree with that in principle... and that's why I often quote him... however, being human myself, I understand that we're all very, very fallable... I make mistake and mistep everyday.
Things can change after such hurts.... I truly believe that and long to see it in folks... as long as there true intentions, amends and demonstrations of work to change.
We all fail... its what we do after we fail that impresses me most.
Old adage: (Q)"Why do we fall down? (A)So that we can learn how to get back up."

But peeps rarely want to work that hard.... "there's plenty of fish in the sea", right? Why work hard at repairing a relationship when you can dance on over to the next one....er, that's the attitude that I often see... not the one that I abide with.
Infact... the handfull of folks that have worked hard with me to repair broken fences have much more respect than those who don't/haven't... both forgiving me when I've been wrong and those that have worked hard when they've wronged me.

Those who don't even try... what's to say? I move on and quit hoping after a time. Disappointed all the while.

What.... weren't you saying "no roses?"
You fickle lady you.

Very visceral... beautiful write!

'cause you all don't listen to the older ones enough...
er, mebbe 'cause you listen too much.
idk?

I think Trev is talking from a perspective of an anthropological and centuries of mainstream cultural norms, point-of-view... and in that, I couldn't agree with him more.
(Forgive me Trev if I've over-stepped.)

Still, nowadays we strive to move beyond those standards... sometimes it works out well... other times, not so much.

But when folks strive and don't achieve "success", it doesn't prove or disprove any one approach over the other.
It's in the understanding the struggle to begin with, that will bring peeps some insight.
Know your foe... which is generally yerself.

Biology is part of us all... we can't escape it.
Rational thinking also has it's place.
Patriarchy/Matriarchy are often misunderstood... especially in modern, Westernized thinking.

Balance is the natural order of things... always has been.
And therefore who asks who out on a date is virtually irrelevant.
But biology always needs to be respected.
Figure that part out and you'll get yerself Nobel recognition
(Please send all disagreements to Charles... I don't wanna hear it. haha.)

In short; it's your life... live it the way that you want. But there's always someone who gonna have a different point of view... prolly even in the very one that you're attracted to.
Whether or not you choose to fight or love through it all,
friction will always remain.
Love can conquer that friction in it's sleep... jmho.

Give 'er some long-stems and a camping trip too.

Sorry... you should stay a little longer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua9DN8ZXmOw

Well, thank you for the concern and insight.

Stumbling is what I'm good at and not sure how to change it... so I might as well stick with it, eh?

As for digging deeper... um, well... you don't know me so well. Digging is what I do.
It's the offence others' take from their perception of my digging that's causing me problems, see?
So I'm try to refine those skills.

No comment.

Well, I hope you don't mind, Ted, but I'll take the lead in this "debate", and as the OP, I say this conversation can stay right where it's at and we can discuss it in further detail if you guys would do me the honor.

Ahh... please forgive... I didn't mean to move the discussion out of your thread... I meant that I choose not to discuss it in this thread.

Two seperate things...
I liked his thinking and reasoning; but don't fully concur.

So you debate away as you see fit... I'll watch.
(no dishonoring intended in that...)

That sounds more non-gender specific... a common human behaviorism.
Don't all people seek attention and whine and complain when they don't feel that they're getting enough?

Marketing towards hedonism is an whole other subject... combining the two seems unfair.

Awesome thinking!! I like it.

I'd argue it though if you posted it in a Philosophy Forum, haha.

Awesome song... peeps hated it back in the day (folks that I ran with anyway) but I louv it.