I have always been intrigued by how and why people express themselves. The reflection of that which lives within each of us is quite openly displayed, as it flows through ourselves. As one grows throughout their life, this growth is evident upon so many different levels. There is much to be shown within ones own understanding(s). What one accepts as truth will forever shape that which is perceived after the acceptance. Perception equates to that which has been accepted as truth within each of us.

I wonder then...

What do we truly see?

Is it just that which we have known? That which we have sub-consciously accepted as good reason for an implied conclusion of that which is witnessed... once again?

It is the once again part that is compelling...

Usually there are no two situations that are truly alike in every way. However, when one witnesses a familar thing, where then, does the understanding come from?

From that which had already been experienced, or from approaching this seemingly familiar experience from a non-conclusive mind-set.

Should it be the former, how reliable would such an internal comparison be? How complete then, would the correlation become? How much of what was then would be perceived, mistakenly so, as what is being experienced now?

Perplexing it would be, should one continue to view this world with only the experience required to assess that original situation. How much could one miss out on by simply failing to see that which is being shown, as a result of misconstruing it for that which had been?

Most importantly... where is the line drawn?

ok i need to reboot my brain after reading that!

creativesoul,

Grasping your words for that which is in your heart is difficult through your train of thought here, but I posit a question to better understand where you are going with this.

Are we talking about a lapse in judgement verses a leap in judgement?

wouldee,

How are ya? More importantly didja have a blast at the races over this past weekend?


Concerning the OP...


Actually wouldee, this is not meant to express that which is in my heart. It is meant to promote an open dialogue which promotes one's consideration regarding the inherent dependency upon that which we have lived through to help determine that which we will.

Rather than having an open discourse concerning that which we perceive, which focuses outside of ourselves, should the focus be maintained on why we have perceived it as such, we may soon find then, quite a different mindset.

This internal self-reliance is quite often, not of our true selves, and thereby unreliable. Until we have searched, recognized, and unlearned what had been accepted long ago that shaped our perceptive faculty... accordingly, it will continue to do so... unaccordingly.

How have we learned to place value on our life's experiences?

Yes, CreativeSoul is living in a dimension that few of us ponder in great detail. Unfortunately, I understood his post here all too well.

Creative,… in response to your muse I can only say this. Everyone speaks about the great diversity of life and how each and every individual is unique. Well, I certainly won’t argue with that in the details. However, I often find myself wondering if there isn’t enough diversity, or maybe there’s too much, I’m not really sure.

On the level that you were speaking I’ve tend to find situations and people exceeding similar. Not to imply that everyone is the same, but there seems to be a limited amount of diversity in general. Quite often I mean people, and even groups of people that almost cause me to feel déjà vu with respect to other people and groups of people I’ve experienced in the past. To me it not a mater of pre-judging them from past experiences, but more of a recognition that past experiences were all too similar to the current situation.

And once that recognition is made there comes with that a sense of what’s going to happen next, not so much as in a sense of predicting it, but more of a sense that when it happens, it’s like, “I knew that was coming”. And because this can be quite profound, as well as being repeatable almost with the reliability of a scientific experiment it almost forces a mindset of precautionary prejudice. This stems from the old cliché “Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me’. But now the foolery becomes abstractly applied to the human experience rather than restricting it to only humans that we are familiar with.

I think it’s human nature (almost a survival instinct) to rely on experience for future events. After all, if you burn your hand on a campfire and it hurts, then when you go home to your kitchen stove are you going to have to learn that lesson all over again just because it’s a different fire? Fire is still fire no matter what guise it comes in. This kind of thinking is of course is going be extrapolated onto all experiences in life. It would almost be impossible not to think that way. To do so would almost require viewing the world from a vantage point of always having amnesia. That’s might actually be a good thing. But it’s not an easy thing to do.

The degree to which people allow their past experiences to influence their perception of new experiences and new people can be quite extreme between individuals of course. This is especially true when meeting someone new. First impressions can quite often be driven by past experiences this is why we should be very careful not to make snap judgments or quick decisions about people before we truly know them.

The vast majority of people we attempt to get to know with the hopes of initiating an potentially intimate relationship with, will quite often reject the opportunity to get to know us based on untrue first impressions. In fact, I never feel ‘rejected’ by a woman who refuses me a first date. It’s impossible for her to reject me when she hasn’t even spent any time to get to know me. All she can do is reject the opportunity to get to know me, she simply doesn’t know me well enough to actually reject ‘me’.

I actually many more thoughts on this topic with respect to finding a ‘soulmate’ or a compatible mate of any degree, but I’ll pass on that for now for the sake of brevity.

CS

I'm fine, my friend. The races Friday night openend my eyes a bit. I'm in construction and belt tightening is the buzz word for the day. The racers are in "economy funk" mode and fewer competitors and old cars are being recycled into the new year.

That means, I may campaign my son and his car this year,being that there is less congestion and the competition will be a snap to beat. We'll see.

There's a good start to your thread

Truth and opinions shape judgements for me.
I find truth to be a fluid concept; the absence of opinion, with some facts. Now subjective reasoning then models an opinion. OOps, an opinion Now what?

It's really hard to say whether judgement is experiential or spiritual based solely on events and circumstance.

I am a single parent of a 15 year old son. My youngest, and fourth and final child and have been raising him alone fo thirteen years. Everything I do is based on a premise that I established for myself thirteen years ago.

"Be there", 'Stay connected", "no distractions", "I have lived my life, now I must live for his" Consequently, every decision I make has been based on being there in the morning and likewise in the evening. Racing entered into it at some point.
Got intolerably busy. Career became a secondary priority. Social life tanked. But my son's life has prospered and he is a finer young man than I ever was, with a well balanced and sturdy work ethic and self discipline. His grades are better than his aptitude. He apllies himself, ebbs and flows a bit, but monitors himself intelligently.

Pretty much, I am but a guide and cheerleader. An encourager of new adventures and endeavors for him. Finish what you start, see things through, nothing happens if you do nothing.

For me, the adventure is shaped by his life and his wonder at life.

My life will come a bit later, though it is now. The decision fits this in that all that possessed me to resolve to be the "two parent" lacking a half. I am there for him. It works.

It works, because I determined upon myself to accomplish it and not have a latchkey child raised by strangers or by an emotionally absent parent, dallying in shallow and brief interludes as a catch all "good enough" mindset.

Coming at me in peak earning years when I should be skuyrocketing in business, the trade off was made because the child comes first, since he is in the greatest need.

Nothing about experiences modeled the way for me, or us , as a family.

Out of nothing, we set out together. Building a new life along the way as he grows. I am 15-1/2 now, if you can follow me. But my freedoms and my autonomy is also blossoming personally as his does. Learn as go style modeling. See what I mean?

Now, I don't know if this is waht you mean, but for me, drawing from available resources and knowledge and working with all available assets and talents can build anything out of nothing. Any one can do that if the will exists to endeavor into the unknown sincerely and concretely with the goals in mind at the outset.......

just got a phone call and must leave. My son is weight lifting with the head coach of the High Scool Football team and as a fresman this year, he is being shaped for Varsity next year by the coach. The coach is trying to determine if my son will be first string, but he's playing Varrsity a year early.

I must go now and get his tired butt from the school. It is 5 miles away.

Chat more later.

see what I mean.....priorites.

peace, my friend

James...

It is good to see you, young man...

Recognition of danger is crucial for one's well-being... undoubtedly so...

In the truest of senses, we all judge, unless of course we have no sense of self-awareness based upon that which we have came to understand of ourselves...according to that which we have been taught to understand of ourselves.

If one places too much value onto themself as a result of anything outside of themself, that only results in a habitual comparitive assessment to that which also lies outside.

Truth in understanding our own perceptive abilities/habits comes from knowing why.

Knowing why never comes from looking out.

CS

as I was saying

Relying on experiences only fits recognizable patterns for dictating responses moving forward in life.
Relying on consensus and experiences fits the "herd mentality".

The middle of the road where most people drive their lives.

I have rejected that consensus building mold for myself. I jumped out onto the world very young and started making things happen. I burned that out. I hit the "herd" head on. The "herd" doesn't move independently, let alone interdependently very well. My point centers on having lived my own life and not someone else's. Not living someone else's interpretive dream, but my own. I am not one to live "thorugh" someone else's life either. I share life with those that choose to share. That too has seasons that are shorter than I would desire, for the most part.

It seems to me that fiercely independent individuals model and inspire idividualistic daring and model alternative paths for less visionary or imaginative souls and the consequence bears a resemblance to mentoring, to some extent.

Seeing for myself that anything is possible with the will to do it comes easily. Meeting new challenges is fun, and the older I get, the more patient I have become with anticipated results, and the results sought are of far higher quality than the challenges of my youth.

That which others follow, I cannot speak to, but as for myself the challenges or opportunities sought are less focused on money and prestige and more on the quality of the endeavor or relationship, and those involved in the inner circle. The inner circle dictates the quality oif the concentric circles in the periphery of ones life.

The "hedge of protection" is what I call it. The inner cirlce is the close confidants. Thye intimate intimacies of ones life. That inner circle must be equally equipped in conscience for peace and harmony to exist within it. The quality of the inner circle dictates the quality of the concentric circles comprised of the inner corcle's members inner circles repectively. Be those established and rooted in like conscience and self discipline, then it follows that the concentric circles surrounding the inner circle would exhibit harmonious interplays and healthy attributes and endeavors, not to mention tranquility all around.

In a perfect world, all is well. But life is messy. Not all is as it seems.

Life moves rapidly ahead eating up time and gobbling up virtue with it in the blur. It is difficult to slow it down and breathe in patiently every influence and every need and request.
Self discipline and sacrifice warrant address. Generosity in spirit and the will to be present in the moment dictate much of the balance necessary for sound judgement on a personal level.

Interacting with life's intimacies involves making value judgements. Prioritizing ones treasure involves addressing what constitutes treasure.

Treasure is a fleeting commodity. Blurred and messy when the societal responsibilities and requirements upon the individual are random, at best, and external gratuities at worst.

In the end, people are shaped from their inner awareness or by the external imagery obtained by interacting socially.

Somewhere between these poles are the bits and pieces that constitute resources and talents and treasure to build with.

Builders build and followers follow but the whole parade drags the attention it brings ahead into the unknown to map the now.

I believe that the dangers are not evidenced by past mistakes, nor by future repititions made notably evident from the past or predictably based on the opposites gleaned from the past, be that good, bad or indifferent. But rather on the will live to live in the 'now' of life. Being present in the moment and keenly aware of the surroundings and the inner circle and the needs, wants and desires of that inner circle, now, cares for the next now best. The now that follows this now is rewarded by the fondness of this now and the enthusiasm to embrace the next now, whole and in togetherness and witth intimacy and with love and joy and peace for the next step, and the next step, and the next........

learning. how quick are you baby? can you incorporate
the advice of alien others into your narrow ant trail?

where does training end and creativity begin? if
you are a student of ancient battles Gen. Patton how
will you anticipate the antics of your new adversary
who is unpredictable and cunning?

if you will learn from others then your horizon is as
wide as your field of vision. apprentice yourself and
be more than you could possibly imagine!!



Analyst or Creator?

If I could see you, the way you see yourself,
I wouldn't recognise you.

The mind I saw through three minutes ago, is not the same mind, I use right this very second.

Unlearning.... I love that word... it's one of my greatest friends...

Who I was when 'in' whatever it was... that created, compiled, collated, using the only reference points at the time...is so not the same, as this moment.

We can only be, that which we are whilst in it...

The value placed upon arrivals at decisions, judgements, knee jerk reactions...recognising the flow of information that arrives at this place....disseminating, dissecting, casting off that which is not appropriate to the Now of me....

I get to be me.... whoever that may be... and you get to be you....

and the rest is so much white noise...

slow

that works for self willed energy, but what about divine guidance?

at some point in life one takes the moment and seizes control of destiny. Make something happen. see the results. What in the world influenced it and what outside of the social interaction dictated the fortuity or failure?

Observing the dimensions beyond critical thinking paths can lead to questions that need answers. How big is the box and what works in and out of the box? Dimensional stability of what?

Some things are bigger than men, and much more complex and not given to rationalize in the natural order or in the natural state.

Inspiration cames from many places, sometimes from without only to be planted within.

Guidance, where is the guidance?

And if all is a struggle, then what is the battle?

With the design, or with the designer?

There is a greater force present than that which is within man.

In and around the doings of man are doings and intents that are blinding but equally insightful.

At what cost does opinion limit perspective except by the input that formulates the selfsame opinion?

Man ought not to have too high of an opinion of himself.

It is a blinder.

Man ought to endeavor into the unknown.

The unknown that apprehends his limitations is the one to wrestle with, not the man or the leader of men.

All are under authority.

Pick one and run with it.

I did, and that is my "hedge of protection".

Not man made at all. Never was. Not original either.....

...just genuine.

recognize it?

Thank you all for stopping into and visiting this thread.

Individual application(s) are marvelous...

I would like to present a couple of thoughts to consider, if I may...

About most of my own learned perception... much earlier in my life...

I was raised to believe that all things were a certain way, because of very specific reasons. Many of these perceptions troubled me within, yet I had to adopt these things in order to fit into that which was my life. I have had to unlearn many things since, throughout my adult life.

That which was taught had indeed prepared the way for that which I would choose, thereby adding confirmation to the validity of what had been learned. Not in so much that the choice was made for me. It is much more accurate to say that the quality of the choices which were recognized as available were so dictated by that which I had earlier chose. I could only choose that which I knew to choose, according to that which I saw. Only later in life, when I had begun to look at things differently, did things begin to look different. Thereby allowing the growth of my capability to perceive the difference.

It was not until I had looked around and found myself witnessing the evidence to the contrary of that which I had been taught that I was able to even consider the possibility of changing perspective. I had known that others had different ways about them, but the perception of why was quite a self-destructive understanding at times. It is not for me to understand another's why... I am still obtaining my own sense of why.

I so wanted to be at peace within... I wanted to surround myself with good things... good feelings... good people... those who are at ease within themselves, about themselves. Those who make me feel at ease, for good reason(s). The most curious part of this consideration was my unknowing that these types are quite east to recognize, when one knows what it is that lies beneath themselves... and why...

They are at peace with others as well... unless provoked beyond normal measure. Even so, at that time, the most peaceful ones still remain peaceful. It seems that the most peaceful people that I have met are completely at ease within. They know who they are, as well as what they are not.

The thief teachings have still haunted me at times, as it is quite deeply ingrained. Often I wonder just how many things still reside within this man that are of that which is not this man. I wonder how much more of myself still lay beneath those adopted thief teachings.

Thus, the reason for my own deliberate removal of that which no longer fits. The systematic dissection of that which is the worldy fingerprint that kept me from knowing who I was...

Peace...

Like attracts Like. That is the law of attraction.

i do not distinguish completely between human and divine
guidance. from my point of view divinity is within all
humankind - inseparable if you will - when you incorporate
the views and approaches of others - and when you are
inspired by their actions and reserve...these may all be
considered to be of holy origin - as is our ability to even
have the capability of adjustment, reasoning and emotional
response to our world.

so, to clarify my earlier post, both Analyst and Creator,
from my point of view incorporate God.

i do not see a boundary! it is like learning - limitless.

I will be back when I have more time to contemplate and respond

I agree to some extent.

My understanding of the definition of holy is 'separate'.

I believe that to be holy is to be separate, even to the dividing line within each of us of ourselves to judge where that holy inspiration is coming from, if not inseparable from us, individually speaking, without a clear distinction of the difference between our own judgement and that of a separate influence upon our judgement.

I agree that we must confront the possibilities of intervening influences and their motives upon our judgement.

Socially, that interplays in a less than universal congruence.

perhaps that is the journey measured in steps.

We all take them.

Humans have been created, designed and trained to worship and serve their Gods for centuries. They perceive a boundary between them and the object of their worship. They have groveled before the greatness of their creators for so long, they find comfort in that. It relieves the responsibility they would have to learn that they manifest reality with their own thoughts and intentions and reality is served up to them upon their command. They would rather not believe that. They would rather blame God or the Devil for what arises in their lives. They would rather serve their master than be master of themselves.

But a new day is dawning. Consciousness is coming alive within the core of mankind and some are accepting the responsibility if but only for their own reality. This is an awakening of spirit that is happening. There is no separation between God and its body in truth, only in the realization of what we are and what our purpose is. The intellect will never put the pieces together because intellect is confined and limited, and most of the time it does not listen to the inner voice of God.

JB

This is so true, and there’s a real irony in it.

People have been taught to believe that to think that they are the master of themselves is blaspheme, and ultimately a rejection of a higher authority. This was actually done to instill guilt and shame into anyone who dares to think they know better than the authoritarians.

However, in the end, this line of thinking does not truly represent responsibility at all, but rather the shirking of responsibility.

If people are behaving in specific ways simply because they fear reprisal or lust for a promised reward, then they aren’t truly acting on their own morals but rather rejecting their own morals in the hopes of gaining favor with another entity.

If you stop and think about this, it’s genuinely disingenuous.

To act against your natural moral fiber to appease a God is to falsify yourself before that God.

If you must be untrue to yourself to serve a God then there’s something crucially wrong with that whole ideal. And keep in mind that even if the person succeeds in appeasing the God, the appeaser would need to continue to be untrue to him or herself for all of eternity to continue to appease the God. That could only lead to major resentment in the long haul.

A God that needs to be appeased at the cost of self-denial of the appeaser is an oxymoronic ideal.

Note to Michael,

My last post might have seemed a bit ‘off-topic’ but from my point of view it is not.

Topic - The development of our sight...

There can be no doubt that the development of our sight (our view of the world), most certainly is affected by the religious beliefs of the culture and/or family and friends in our lives.

If we are taught that certain behavior is ‘sinful’ or ‘wrong’. Then how can we help but feel guilt associated with those behaviors even if we don’t personally feel that there is anything wrong with them?

Much of our view of the world truly is pushed onto us by others.

This is especially true if the people we are interacting with view the world differently than we do.

The world is an interactive place. Quite often we behave in ways that we know are appropriate simply because we know how other people are going to react to certain situations.

For example, you’re not going to walk into a church wearing an extremely revealing playboy bunny costume and not expect a strong reaction to that.

Having some predetermined expectations in life is quite valid. And much of those predetermined expectations do indeed arise from things like the religious prejudices of the culture we live in.

In other words, the development of our sight is without a doubt influenced by the expectations of the society in which we live (or at least by the expectations of the immediate group that we are interacting with).

You see someone walking toward you whom you love and you know they love you, you open your arms to welcome them.

You see someone walking toward you with ill intent in anger, you’re going to take a more defensive stance.

Why? Because you have expectations of what actions those ‘sights’ imply will follow.