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Topic: The Wall
msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 02/17/18 01:02 PM Edited by msharmony on Sat 02/17/18 01:03 PM
they are a dependent of and the responsibility of their parent and thus covered by their parents' legal visa. or in the case of illegal entrants subject to the same return to their place of origin. but in the case of there being no visa, their parent did not go through legal channels, it is just like a child waiting in the car has no culpability if a parent goes in and robs a store. The child is not 'subject' to the same consequence merely for being the responsibility of a parent who chose not to have any.

eric22t Joined Wed 08/13/14 Posts: 27928	Sat 02/17/18 01:04 PM
IT is an interesting topic. I do feel it is interesting that as Americans we often feel so much more 'entitled' to 'rights' that are basically about being decent to other human beings. I also find it interesting that people who come here with no understanding of the law and no legal ability to enter contracts(as children) are lumped in with ANYONE else who doesnt have documents, regardless of their individual situations, and tossed out as if they are the enemy. I also find it interesting the idea that people coming here illegally are any more a 'threat' to us than we are to them, being that they are easier to exploit and abuse through the intimidation and fear of deportation. WHen people hurt other people, regardless of the 'documents' they can buy (yes, immigration is legally mostly about the money, those without are not eligible) , those people should be dealt with, but pre supposing that merely due to documents, someone will be a danger is IMHO more emotionally impulsive than it is logical. This from someone who has had to go through the immigration process. so you got a visa first the came here legally? or did you sneak in illegally then start the process afterwards?

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 02/17/18 01:05 PM
Illegals need to get their paperwork done, and apply for legal citizenship. Go through legal channels. Nothing is free, someone is footing the bill for those who take advantage of the assistant programs in the USA. and what of those who come as children, cannot legally enter into 'paperwork' and are not receiving assistance as adults? Should they be tossed or have an opportunity when of legal age to enter into a citizenship contract without threat of deportation? Their parents are responsible . Unfortunately that happened. Tossed is not the right word. Its not a nice word, but its the right one when you live someplace your whole life from childhood and are suddenly told you have to leave because of what your parents did.

eric22t Joined Wed 08/13/14 Posts: 27928	Sat 02/17/18 01:06 PM
they are a dependent of and the responsibility of their parent and thus covered by their parents' legal visa. or in the case of illegal entrants subject to the same return to their place of origin. but in the case of there being no visa, their parent did not go through legal channels, it is just like a child waiting in the car has no culpability if a parent goes in and robs a store. The child is not 'subject' to the same consequence merely for being the responsibility of a parent who chose not to have any. exactly, and they are still their parent's responsibility so they get the same deportation as their parent

alleoops Joined Sat 08/06/11 Posts: 10832	Sat 02/17/18 01:06 PM
Yes, border walls are interesting. I find it interesting that at least 65 other countries have border walls. I guess they feel entitled too. One the most famous being "The great wall of China" and the least being the heavily guarded wall or border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic and of course the southern border of Mexico. I also find it interesting that since illegals are treated so badly here, why they come here by the millions. Haven't figured that out yet. We should treat them as well as other countries do. I dont feel that argument holds much water when we dont even treat our CITIZENS as well as other countries do in terms of aid and healthcare, and even gun safety. We never hold ourselves to the standard of 'other countries'. We concern ourselves with what we believe works in OURS. If it's so bad here why do come here? Why is there a backlog of people trying to come here? Your argument makes no sense. If our citizens are not being treated as well as other countries, why isn't there hoards of people trying to go to other countries? Your imagination is clouding reality.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 02/17/18 01:07 PM
IT is an interesting topic. I do feel it is interesting that as Americans we often feel so much more 'entitled' to 'rights' that are basically about being decent to other human beings. I also find it interesting that people who come here with no understanding of the law and no legal ability to enter contracts(as children) are lumped in with ANYONE else who doesnt have documents, regardless of their individual situations, and tossed out as if they are the enemy. I also find it interesting the idea that people coming here illegally are any more a 'threat' to us than we are to them, being that they are easier to exploit and abuse through the intimidation and fear of deportation. WHen people hurt other people, regardless of the 'documents' they can buy (yes, immigration is legally mostly about the money, those without are not eligible) , those people should be dealt with, but pre supposing that merely due to documents, someone will be a danger is IMHO more emotionally impulsive than it is logical. This from someone who has had to go through the immigration process. so you got a visa first the came here legally? or did you sneak in illegally then start the process afterwards? No. I got married in another country and had to apply for my spouse to come. Guess what? Not enough money. And it was a three year process for us. Though Im an american citizen. The process is needlessly long and unforgivingly classist, and people dont starve or allow their loved ones to starve gracefully. So when one needs money for food and shelter NOW, is three years of paperwork to be told they are too needy gonna cut it? No.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 02/17/18 01:08 PM
they are a dependent of and the responsibility of their parent and thus covered by their parents' legal visa. or in the case of illegal entrants subject to the same return to their place of origin. but in the case of there being no visa, their parent did not go through legal channels, it is just like a child waiting in the car has no culpability if a parent goes in and robs a store. The child is not 'subject' to the same consequence merely for being the responsibility of a parent who chose not to have any. exactly, and they are still their parent's responsibility so they get the same deportation as their parent No. once they are grownups they are NOT their parent's responsiblity.

eric22t Joined Wed 08/13/14 Posts: 27928	Sat 02/17/18 01:09 PM
yet you prevailed and came legally. bravo the discussion of wall is not to prevent that. but to prevent illegal entry. and not to close the border but to insure all do as you did and enter legally

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 02/17/18 01:10 PM
Yes, border walls are interesting. I find it interesting that at least 65 other countries have border walls. I guess they feel entitled too. One the most famous being "The great wall of China" and the least being the heavily guarded wall or border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic and of course the southern border of Mexico. I also find it interesting that since illegals are treated so badly here, why they come here by the millions. Haven't figured that out yet. We should treat them as well as other countries do. I dont feel that argument holds much water when we dont even treat our CITIZENS as well as other countries do in terms of aid and healthcare, and even gun safety. We never hold ourselves to the standard of 'other countries'. We concern ourselves with what we believe works in OURS. If it's so bad here why do come here? Why is there a backlog of people trying to come here? Your argument makes no sense. If our citizens are not being treated as well as other countries, why isn't there hoards of people trying to go to other countries? Your imagination is clouding reality. I did not state anything about it being 'bad here'. They come here for the opportunity to have safety and food and shelter for their families. My argument makes perfect sense, for those who would hold what the US should do based upon whether it is better or worse than other countries. IF having a wall is only going to be defended by 'other countries have immigration' than why not defend having gun safety policies with the same passionate argument? why not defend having affordable healthcare with the same passionate argument? My point is about the intellectually dishonest arguments(some of them) and their complete INCONSISTENCY.

eric22t Joined Wed 08/13/14 Posts: 27928	Sat 02/17/18 01:12 PM
if they last here long enough illegally to become adult then it is their responsibility to become legal and go through the process themselves.if they choose not to then yes their are subject to deportation

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 02/17/18 01:13 PM
yet you prevailed and came legally. bravo the discussion of wall is not to prevent that. but to prevent illegal entry. and not to close the border but to insure all do as you did and enter legally I was born here. The process was to bring a spouse here. The discussion of the wall is fine, but a smokescreen to the real issue which is the immigration process and the policies around it. Children have no LEGAL recourse to enter the country, they depend upon their parents. If the parents have not done that, the parents should be the focus, not the children who have lived their lives as decent and hardworking people into adulthood.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 02/17/18 01:14 PM
if they last here long enough illegally to become adult then it is their responsibility to become legal and go through the process themselves.if they choose not to then yes their are subject to deportation Yes. I agree. But the current laws dont allow for it without deportation. IF they have been productive and abided the laws into adulthood, why should there not be some option that does not involve them being deported first?

eric22t Joined Wed 08/13/14 Posts: 27928	Sat 02/17/18 01:16 PM
no. i am sorry, but just because a minor was brought here illegally by their responsible parent should not give them a free pass.

alleoops Joined Sat 08/06/11 Posts: 10832	Sat 02/17/18 01:18 PM
Msh, I don't know what you are talking about and I don't think you do either.

Toodygirl5 Joined Fri 10/26/12 Posts: 15219	Sat 02/17/18 01:18 PM Edited by Toodygirl5 on Sat 02/17/18 01:42 PM
One of My ex went to another country married the woman and brought her right back to the States where he lived in small town. Unfortunately she left after a year and went to Chicago (,big city). Not sure who got the divorce thou. Who marries a non citizen and don't have money to bring them back to states, if that's where they both want to live. I m just saying!! The man should be the one who pays for that. Imo

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 02/17/18 01:18 PM
no. i am sorry, but just because a minor was brought here illegally by their responsible parent should not give them a free pass. how about 'just because' they contributed and lived into adulthood in this country every since, held jobs, went to school, and anything else American born people do?

eric22t Joined Wed 08/13/14 Posts: 27928	Sat 02/17/18 01:19 PM
if they last here long enough illegally to become adult then it is their responsibility to become legal and go through the process themselves.if they choose not to then yes their are subject to deportation Yes. I agree. But the current laws dont allow for it without deportation. IF they have been productive and abided the laws into adulthood, why should there not be some option that does not involve them being deported first? hence the need for better prevention of illegal entry. to prevent illegals last here long enough to put their children in that predicament

Toodygirl5 Joined Fri 10/26/12 Posts: 15219	Sat 02/17/18 01:20 PM
no. i am sorry, but just because a minor was brought here illegally by their responsible parent should not give them a free pass. That's what I was trying to say!!!

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Sat 02/17/18 01:20 PM
if they last here long enough illegally to become adult then it is their responsibility to become legal and go through the process themselves.if they choose not to then yes their are subject to deportation Yes. I agree. But the current laws dont allow for it without deportation. IF they have been productive and abided the laws into adulthood, why should there not be some option that does not involve them being deported first? hence the need for better prevention of illegal entry. to prevent illegals last here long enough to put their children in that predicament all nice and good, but it would be like opposing having a csb to instead only address the issue of abusive parents to help 'avoid' the situation the situation will exist, and needs to be addressed ALSO

Toodygirl5 Joined Fri 10/26/12 Posts: 15219	Sat 02/17/18 01:21 PM
no. i am sorry, but just because a minor was brought here illegally by their responsible parent should not give them a free pass. how about 'just because' they contributed and lived into adulthood in this country every since, held jobs, went to school, and anything else American born people do? Jobs!!! most get grants and assistance from government!!