Well I could always delete them as a friend or block their posts. But I signed up for face book again to keep in touch with high school friends and family.

I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but sometimes they seem to be on some kind of mission and I have to wade through a dozen posts to see the ones I want to see.

I guess I will just turn off their posts to my page.

sounds like a plan

Agree, morality should be taught to children, teach them right from wrong, how to be good people. But religion is not something that should be taught to children because children have impressionable minds, they will believe you if you tell them a pink flesh eating rabbit lives in their closet, in the same way they would believe you if you tell them there's a magic man in the sky. That's why it's called brainwashing, they get told it when they're young and impressionable then continue to get told it so that many of them never question it because it's all they've ever heard.

I've nothing against those wishing to congregate and they will do that with or without religion but have politicians ever incited war against another country based on their beliefs of football? Not that I've heard of. I'm just saying, get rid of organized religion, let people believe in in their own way, let them blog all over the net about how they interpret their god based on the bible, let them gather and hold objective meetings based on each individuals belief system based on how they interpret the bible. People are told what to believe based on other people's interpretations of the bible, that's not free will, that's blind following. Get religion away from politics, these people are here to run our country, not preach their beliefs.

And Jean, if you got 'friends' and all they do is preach the bible to you and you don't care for that; I think it's time you found new friends. Some people grow up and take on different interests, it sucks that they may not be the same people you knew them as, but that's life. But don't get me wrong, that'd annoy the crap out of me as well.

The reason the word "friends" is in quotations is because that is what face books calls them. They are not really my "friends" they are HS-classmates. When they post on facebook all their friends can see their posts.

I like to see the posts of family and acquaintances, and see what people are doing, but some of them go overboard with their causes and pushing their religious beliefs.

everyone here has this idea that they should be able to define what 'moral' is and what source it comes from,,,

lol

I found something in common with everyone here,,,


I will say, those preaching religion as child abuse are probably not parents,,,,,not surprisingly

those who believe , especially, that children are impressionable but then say (basically) we should leave their impressionable minds to learn their morality from EVERYWHERE else, BUT us ( whether its passed down values or values reinforced in a book, its still values that every parent has an obligation to teach their children)...


obviously, many people question it, even when taught from an impressionable age,,,,so it doesnt hold true that they wont question it,,,,

some question it and find that it holds water and others dont,, let each come to their own conclusion without deeming their rational to be 'brainwashing'

we are influenced by many different environments and situations, religion is but one possible,, at the end of the day, t hinking adults will accept and run with those things that sit best WITH THEM....

people are 'told' what to believe any time they read any history book too,, some will accept it as true and some wont,,

...time to just deal with it and move on,,,,

...carry on,,,

You have oviously put a lot of thought into you post and interpreting of scripture but my reasons for believing in God is due to certain biological facts that evolutionist do not like to talk about.

1) Life formed by a chemical reaction. Answer: Only life has the complete mechanisms to create life.

2) All life evolved from a single celled organism. Answer: Multi-cellular creatures can only form inside an egg or womb and needs a specific DNA code to determine its formation.

3) Life evolves by a process of natural selection that favors beneficial mutations. Answer: Any mutations in the genetic code only results in confusing the cell and causes deformaties that are weeded out by natural selection rather then favoured.

The real reason for atheism is that people want to sin and they want to be told that it is a good and moral thing. We see this clearly with the gay rights and equality movement. To make sin a moral thing in a society, you have to take God out of the picture and that's where Darwinism comes in.

Darwinism is a complete fairytale, but it take God out of the picture and so atheist's support it and anyone else who wants to sin. SO IT IS SIN AND NOT SCIENCE THAT SUPPORTS EVOLUTION. there are numerous Bible passages to support this psychological based science.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Evolution is a lie. All who have no love for the truth (that they might be saved) believe this lie because... THEY HAD PLEASURE IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. For this very reason men hide the truth for the sake of unrighteousness.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

It all comes down to the evidence of God in creation and the denial of that evidence through the work of ones imagination.

Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Which leads us to this present battle of hiding the truth in lies to justify the sins that denying the truth has both been put into effect and has ultimately resulted in.

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Evolution is just another lie to support the same old sin. Evolution is popular because it does away with the need for a God, therefore homosexuals and the like can feel good about themselves. Evolution has been so effective in achieving this goal, that children are literally brainwashed by Darwinian ideology and atheist propaganda at school.

Only evolution is allowed to be taught to keep control of what these children are allowed to see. All the science that disproves evolution so easily is forbidden. Evolution is a lie to keep secularism as the dominating world view. This is nothing new but has always been the method of promoting sin as a moral right.

You cannot tell me though that if one grows up thinking a certain way it will not influence their thinking later on in life. You just can't. Will some break away from it anyway? Maybe but many others won't or will feel they can't. You stack the deck in the favor of your own personal dogma rather than letting them find their own. That is wrong and should not be consented to.

That I'm not a parent doesn't mean I am wrong or that you're right either, just saying. The moment you cease to allow yourself to learn new ideas, is the moment you cease to really live, because learning is a part of life, even if it challenges you in ways you may not like.

And as far as the morality argument, no one is gonna tell you you shouldn't teach your kid basic rules of right and wrong, good and bad, that's really all you need to do to teach them morality and help them deal with situations they will be faced with in society. But what we are saying you shouldn't be able to do is to try and tell them "God expects this" or "God says that is wrong" that is where you cross the line from teaching basic morals to get through life, and religious brainwashing. There is a difference and it's a big difference.

No one is saying you should let you kid do or be influenced by anything and everything around them, just not to use God as the reason to tell them yes or no, they can figure out their relationship to God as they get older, they don't need to be fed that before they're ready.

Just cause your book says it doesn't mean it's true, gonna have to do better than that.......

but YOU are trying to imply that you or others can decide for me where my 'basic' right and wrong should come from....


it is no more wrong or abusive for me to let my children know what Gods design is than it is for me to leave it to the media to tell them what 'society' expects

none of it is any more or less abusive ,and the child who is going to make the best complete choice is the one who has a variety of influences, not just the limited worldly ones that others believe are 'basic'...

there is never simply a reason that is God,, there is a reason that is Gods design, that is natures design, that is health and long term conseaquences,,

few people are just blindly accepting that 'God said so' , without understanding the logic of what God has said,,,


as Ive said many times, right is right, regardless of the source
regardless if people try to discredit it by adhominem attacks against the source,, if its right

its still right,,,

You must have been captain of the debateing team

mama just encouraged us not to be what she called 'lazy' thinkers,,,

On a side note, I wish there was a cleaner way to just quote one person, half this thread is taken up by huge multi-person quotes when the person only meant to quote one small paragraph.


Msharmony, while I don't entirely agree with kleisto's angle that teaching religion to children is "child abuse" it's not exactly hurting them but it is in every aspect of the phrase, brainwashing.
If you want your children to have choice, then give them the choice, don't tell them god is this, god is that, and prefix/suffix half of what you say with god this or god that. If you want them to make their own decisions then tell them "this is what mommy believes, but it is your choice to make when you come of age as to what you believe." But battering it into their head at every turn that this is true and never speaking a word against it yourself, your kids will be much more likely to follow that path(especially if they have a deep respect for you).

It's like those parents that raise their kid to become a scientist or lawyer or doctor or football star because they want their kids to be that and whether they say it aloud or not, they put their kids under the impression that if they don't follow that path that their parents will think less of them.

Also there are many parents out there that are so religious that the way they treat their kids could literally be seen as a form of child abuse. Like "you follow our religion or we'll disown you!" kinda thing. A lot of people in cultist religions like Scientology are like that. Sad thing is there isn't exactly a massive difference between a religion or a cult, only real difference I can think of off the top of my head is that cults take their beliefs slightly more serious.

If it doesn't slip my mind I'm going to have a good read over william8's reply on the weekend. That's a big mind-grind and I've been pretty busy over the past week.

On a side note, no I don't have kids but I've put a lot more thought into it than you may think. I could already guarantee that I'd be a better parent than my mother was by a long shot(my mother was the perfect model for what not to do as a parent).

Evolution is a lie. All who have no love for the truth (that they might be saved) believe this lie because... THEY HAD PLEASURE IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. For this very reason men hide the truth for the sake of unrighteousness.
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Creationist?

Evolution is a lie. All who have no love for the truth (that they might be saved) believe this lie because... THEY HAD PLEASURE IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. For this very reason men hide the truth for the sake of unrighteousness.
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This entire statement is a lie because evolution is empirical.
I don't want to go way off topic but hominids do exist,16s rRNA and DNA homology are very strong supportive evidence for evolution.
What do the creationist have to debunk evolution?Ah wait a second here it comes............"the flagella" and it's spinning tail?Alrighty then.

again, someone else is dicatating to parents HOW to teach values

it matters not if I Say 'this is what I believe',,,,,its the rules in my house,, period

I am the ADULT,,,,so I can say these are the rules,,and these are the rules BECAUSE

but saying I believe these should be the rules is not an option

that my values/standards/rules correlate to a religious book. or if I choose to back up my values and standards and rules with the religious book,,,,,is not brainwashing,, its RAISING a child

and each parent has to decide in what way they wish to Raise a child, what influences they want them to have, what standards.values. lessons, and morals they will teach their child....


its not really a moral if its followed by 'if you want to'....

thats not a realistic way to actually guide and RAISE a child,,,,

and yes, people can be abusive parents,, they can use health to abuse, by training children to believe they should be slim or skinny,,,

they can use patriotism to abuse, by teaching children that their patriotism depends on specific actions and beliefs to the extent that the child doesnt feel SELF WORTH as an individual

they can use any number of 'tools' for good or for bad,, just like we can with physical tools,,,

but that is a factor of the parents character and not the tool itself,,,

1. The term "sin" is meaningless. It is rooted in irrational religious mysticism.

If you want to be happy and successful in life you need to be CONSCIOUS, not steeped in mystery and fear of some imagined creator god.

If you know what "God" is then you know who you are. You are the creator of your own reality and being so, can create anything you want. You already have. You've created a deity to worship. Good for you.

And why would you object to homosexuals feeling good about themselves? Your desire to spread unhappiness and guilt is deplorable.

You have no power over rational conscious people.

Evolution is no where near scratching the surface of solving any questions about where we came from, but at least someone is looking.

Others just say "God did it" and they stop asking questions. They place their lives and responsibilities into the hands of their god.

Then they blame their god when their lives get out of control.
If course they call that side of god "The devil."

So let me see if I get this right. Teaching religion could be child abuse and is at least brainwashing.

Then would you say all religious schools are nothing but Brainwashing institutions?

If you all are right then we have a lot of schools and colleges like say Notre Dame should be closed. We should only let what Washington and the states say should be taught because they are the only ones who offer choice?

So let me see if I get this right. Teaching religion could be child abuse and is at least brainwashing.

Then would you say all religious schools are nothing but Brainwashing institutions?

If you all are right then we have a lot of schools and colleges like say Notre Dame should be closed. We should only let what Washington and the states say should be taught because they are the only ones who offer choice?
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Actually it's all about the money even with religious schools.
Cause without money religious schools wouldn't stay in business.Although if it's a catholic school the vatican may bail them out instead of feeding the hungry in Ethiopia.Wait though do to the differences in the "orthodox churches" it's hard for it to happen.It's all part of gods plan.

Comparing similarity in species or DNA has been a common trick to support evolution.

The many differences though are not reconcilable.

DNA itself is far to complex to allow for any new genetic material to be transferred from progenitor to progeny.

To have any strong evidence for evolution, you have to demonstrate how new genetic material, that is not inherent in the species, can come about.

Since all life is determined by DNA then there are bound to be similarity between species, just as there are similarity in binary code and software.

An extinct primate is not proof of evolutionary ancestor, since many primate species exist.

Many species of animal have become extinct.

So any extinct primate is no more proof for evolution then any living one.

The discovery of DNA proved evolution from one species into another, impossible.

Even if benefitial mutations were possible and you haven't proven that they are, how can one freak biological trait become a universal phenomenon in a species?

On a rare few occasions babies have been born with six fingers, but it have never been passed on or become a universal biological trait, and rewrote our DNA?

Mutations are the result of mistakes in the transfer of DNA which only confuse the cell, since it can only read specific DNA.

These mistakes lead to lose of limbs etc.

One small mistake in DNA and the cell cannot read it.

Benefitial mutations was invented by Evolutionary biologists to keep the theory credible. It did not come about by emperical evidence.

It is just one of the biological fantasies evolutionist teach to keep the only support for atheism and secularism afloat.

Evolution is not supported by science but by atheism which just happens to be the dominating world view.

It is Darwinian ideologies that children are brainwashed in.