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| Topic: God is NOT a loving god. | |
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Ya, a couple scenes in supernatural gave me a good laugh.. Pudding!! Yep! The Pudding scene was funny! Castiel was also hilarious at times. The scene where Dean took Cas to visit a prostitute was an outstanding example. Good point about JW's, kinda reminds me of Scientologists. The thing that annoys me(personally) about Scientology is that before I read into it I had thought that it was a religion based on science; which would actually be a sensible thing in this day and age but it turned out to be a bunch of cultist nutbags that are so bad even people of the old religions don't like/respect them. But then I guess they wouldn't if it was a religion based on science either but pretty much no one likes them unless they are one of them. Agreed. My experience was the same as yours. I was disappointed that their beliefs turned out to be even wackier than JW beliefs. But, their treatment of apostates is disturbingly similar. Of course, that is one of the constants in the word of high-control cults. |
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Edited by
DavidM616
on
Tue 11/08/16 11:46 AM
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Ya and if you have a father that promises to beat you and burn you for all of eternity if you don't love him then I'm sure you love him purely because he created you? >,> There is no burning for eternity. You either receive eternal life through Jesus Christ, or eternal death because of sin. Revelation 20 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And there is no indication that it will be "torment" for those that were not found in the book of life. Just specifically references "second death" And this is also fairly clear as the previous verse in that chapter states the following 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. But again does not say man/woman will be tormented day and night, nor "insinuates" it. While I personally agree with you as regards what Hell was supposed to be (One of the few things that the Witnesses got right, IMO.), I'm sure that you know that there are many other passages that can easily be interpreted as saying that Hell is a place of fiery torment. (So, I won't bother quoting them.) And, this is another example that makes my earlier point about the vast differences in beliefs even among different sects of the same religion; a situation that shouldn't be observed, if ONE god were behind said religion. But, that still doesn't overturn Lazarus' point. If your human father told you that he would reward you for obeying him, but would literally kill you if you don't, would you feel impelled to love him? Or, would you just fear him? |
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Edited by
DavidM616
on
Tue 11/08/16 11:48 AM
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Loving God is just that reason. It's not about making browny points to gain anything, it's not about "assuring" your afterlife, it's not about avoiding punishment or in the hopes to receive a reward. It is loving God for he is God, he is our creator, our giver, our provider. It's for the plain sake of loving God, again not to gain anything or better assure anything for one's self. Ya and if you have a father that promises to beat you and burn you for all of eternity if you don't love him then I'm sure you love him purely because he created you? >,> I watch supernatural and it is entertaining but it's far from being my favorite. It lacks substance. Basically every episode is the same. Guy A is feeling something but doesn't want to admit it to guy B and so there's that underlying tension throughout the episode as they fight demons, ghosts and the paranormal in general with the help of demons, angels or in the older seasons moreso, other hunters. My favorite show is game of thrones, so many different characters and angles and it's filmed in 3 different countries. A total masterpiece of a show. Also nearly no-one is off limits from being slaughtered. I've already had at least 2-3 people I was rooting for in the show die. I know, that was totally off topic but who cares, lol. The forums are for conversation so if meaningful conversation happens amidst pointless god debates, so be it. But ya, fear of death is a main driver for religion but you also have to think that back when the first religions were invented, people had an average life span of what, 20? Without the thought that there could be something beyond that life, total anarchy must have ruled the planet. I mean if I could only live to 30 years max, damn rights I'd kill anyone I needed to in order to make those years satisfactory. Unless I had fear of screwing up a much longer life span beyond that one. So religion is not only to cover fear of death but there as a purpose for life when most people don't really have one beyond get rich, fall in love, buy a house with a white picket fence, blah blah and many people give up on those things early in life if they're not charismatic, an intellectual, born with godlike looks or born into money(few other things perhaps but you get my meaning). Well, I like it, anyway. I really like the way they manage to work a little humor into each episode, to break the tension, without turning it into a farce. I've never seen Game of Thrones, so I can't comment on it, but I'm glad that you like it. Well, hey, it's your thread, so by golly you can talk about whatever you want, right? Good point about the lifespans back in ancient times. Fear of death was a more pressing concern back then! You're right about religion providing a purpose in life for many, too. That's a good point. In fact, the cult I was raised in (Jehovah's Witnesses) often touted the fact that serving God gave our life purpose. And, in a similar vein, religion also provides a social network for people who might not otherwise have one. (Like me.) Of course, that can be a two-edged sword in some cases. In the case of the JWs, if a member decides that he/she no longer believes in the Witness dogma, he/she is labelled an "apostate," and is shunned. So, any member who is having doubts has to consider the possibility that if he/she speaks up about them, it could cause him/her to suddenly lose all of his/her "friends." (And family.) Once again, the dark side of religion rears its ugly head. Ya, a couple scenes in supernatural gave me a good laugh.. Pudding!! Good point about JW's, kinda reminds me of Scientologists. The thing that annoys me(personally) about Scientology is that before I read into it I had thought that it was a religion based on science; which would actually be a sensible thing in this day and age but it turned out to be a bunch of cultist nutbags that are so bad even people of the old religions don't like/respect them. But then I guess they wouldn't if it was a religion based on science either but pretty much no one likes them unless they are one of them. Jehovahs are not "Christian" JW’s believe that Jesus Christ was a perfect man, and that He is a person distinct from God the Father. However, they also teach that before His Earthly life, Jesus was a spirit creature, Michael the archangel, who was created by God and became the Messiah at His baptism. According to Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jesus is a mighty one, although not almighty as Jehovah God is. According to John 1:1 in their Bible, The New World Translation, Christ is “a god,” but not “the God.” They teach that Jesus “was and is and always will be beneath Jehovah” and that “Christ and God are not coequal”. In the "Christian" views, Jesus is God. Repeated through the scriptures multiple time, the most said/seen is "The Lord Thy God". And Jesus couldn't very be Michael the archangel. Daniel 12 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. then we have in the same book 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? That would mean by the views of JW's that Daniel saw Michael "Jesus" and told "Jesus" about it in third person eg., "O my Lord.." And many other differences between the two beliefs. Jehovahs if I'm not mistaken even have their own "bible", and do not site from or reference the Christian bible. We are "Christ"ians because we believe Jesus too be the "Christ" prophesied. Jehovahs don't, they believe him just too be a wise man at the least. While you will get no argument from me about the JWs being wrong in their beliefs, saying that they are not "Christians" is a "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy. Besides, I mentioned the JWs as a means of illustrating how religion can have such a negative impact on ones life, both through the influence it has on ones decision-making process, and by the way it can destroy ones social network when one decides he/she no longer believes the doctrines of said religion. So, whether or not you consider JWs to be "real" Christians has no bearing on my point. |
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Ya and if you have a father that promises to beat you and burn you for all of eternity if you don't love him then I'm sure you love him purely because he created you? >,> There is no burning for eternity. You either receive eternal life through Jesus Christ, or eternal death because of sin. Revelation 20 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And there is no indication that it will be "torment" for those that were not found in the book of life. Just specifically references "second death" And this is also fairly clear as the previous verse in that chapter states the following 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. But again does not say man/woman will be tormented day and night, nor "insinuates" it. While I personally agree with you as regards what Hell was supposed to be (One of the few things that the Witnesses got right, IMO.), I'm sure that you know that there are many other passages that can easily be interpreted as saying that Hell is a place of fiery torment. (So, I won't bother quoting them.) And, this is another example that makes my earlier point about the vast differences in beliefs even among different sects of the same religion; a situation that shouldn't be observed, if ONE god were behind said religion. But, that still doesn't overturn Lazarus' point. If your human father told you that he would reward you for obeying him, but would literally kill you if you don't, would you feel impelled to love him? Or, would you just fear him? And, this is another example that makes my earlier point about the vast differences in beliefs even among different sects of the same religion; a situation that shouldn't be observed, if ONE god were behind said religion. Yeah, Satan's torment. Thus the reason for Hell in the first place. It is a "holding place" for Satan until God's final judgement. But, that still doesn't overturn Lazarus' point. If your human father told you that he would reward you for obeying him, but would literally kill you if you don't, would you feel impelled to love him? Or, would you just fear him? No, you can't scare someone or threaten someone into loving you. Nor would I "fear" him. At that level, eternal death would be a blessing in comparison to eternal life. |
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Ya and if you have a father that promises to beat you and burn you for all of eternity if you don't love him then I'm sure you love him purely because he created you? >,> There is no burning for eternity. You either receive eternal life through Jesus Christ, or eternal death because of sin. Revelation 20 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And there is no indication that it will be "torment" for those that were not found in the book of life. Just specifically references "second death" And this is also fairly clear as the previous verse in that chapter states the following 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. But again does not say man/woman will be tormented day and night, nor "insinuates" it. While I personally agree with you as regards what Hell was supposed to be (One of the few things that the Witnesses got right, IMO.), I'm sure that you know that there are many other passages that can easily be interpreted as saying that Hell is a place of fiery torment. (So, I won't bother quoting them.) And, this is another example that makes my earlier point about the vast differences in beliefs even among different sects of the same religion; a situation that shouldn't be observed, if ONE god were behind said religion. But, that still doesn't overturn Lazarus' point. If your human father told you that he would reward you for obeying him, but would literally kill you if you don't, would you feel impelled to love him? Or, would you just fear him? The bible was translated from an ancient version of another language into an ancient version of English and then vaguely interpreted by modern day English speakers, who knows what the hell half of it initially meant when it was written. |
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No, you can't scare someone or threaten someone into loving you. Nor would I "fear" him. At that level, eternal death would be a blessing in comparison to eternal life. Oh good, you're up to speed then, lol. |
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Edited by
DavidM616
on
Wed 11/09/16 01:05 AM
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Ya and if you have a father that promises to beat you and burn you for all of eternity if you don't love him then I'm sure you love him purely because he created you? >,> There is no burning for eternity. You either receive eternal life through Jesus Christ, or eternal death because of sin. Revelation 20 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And there is no indication that it will be "torment" for those that were not found in the book of life. Just specifically references "second death" And this is also fairly clear as the previous verse in that chapter states the following 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. But again does not say man/woman will be tormented day and night, nor "insinuates" it. While I personally agree with you as regards what Hell was supposed to be (One of the few things that the Witnesses got right, IMO.), I'm sure that you know that there are many other passages that can easily be interpreted as saying that Hell is a place of fiery torment. (So, I won't bother quoting them.) And, this is another example that makes my earlier point about the vast differences in beliefs even among different sects of the same religion; a situation that shouldn't be observed, if ONE god were behind said religion. But, that still doesn't overturn Lazarus' point. If your human father told you that he would reward you for obeying him, but would literally kill you if you don't, would you feel impelled to love him? Or, would you just fear him? And, this is another example that makes my earlier point about the vast differences in beliefs even among different sects of the same religion; a situation that shouldn't be observed, if ONE god were behind said religion. Yeah, Satan's torment. Thus the reason for Hell in the first place. It is a "holding place" for Satan until God's final judgement. How does that statement relate to my statement about God supposedly saying contradictory things depending upon which middleman/sect is speaking? Why does God need a holding cell for Satan, anyway? He's GOD. Why wait for the final judgement? All of us little peons down here have to suffer while he delays the inevitable. That's also not very loving. But, that still doesn't overturn Lazarus' point. If your human father told you that he would reward you for obeying him, but would literally kill you if you don't, would you feel impelled to love him? Or, would you just fear him? No, you can't scare someone or threaten someone into loving you. Apparently God and many of his spokesmen don't share that opinion with you. I do, though. Nor would I "fear" him. At that level, eternal death would be a blessing in comparison to eternal life. Well, I have to agree with you there. Living forever while being compelled to worship a cosmic tyrant doesn't sound like much fun to me, either. |
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The bible was translated from an ancient version of another language into an ancient version of English and then vaguely interpreted by modern day English speakers, who knows what the hell half of it initially meant when it was written. You're absolutely right, of course, Lazarus. There are many examples of words (Particularly Hebrew words in the OT.) that scholars cannot translate, and many more words in which the translation is debated. For instance, the phrase "God Almighty" is so common that everyone has heard it at one time or another. Yet, that phrase, while coming from the Bible, may be incorrect. The phrase "el shaddai" appears several times in the OT, and though the word "el" is accepted as meaning "god," there is much debate surrounding the actual meaning of the Hebrew word "shaddai." Again, there are many other examples, if anyone wants to research it. In keeping with the theme of your thread, Lazarus, I have to say that it wasn't very loving of God to not make sure that his Instruction Manual was clear to everyone. |
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The bible was translated from an ancient version of another language into an ancient version of English and then vaguely interpreted by modern day English speakers, who knows what the hell half of it initially meant when it was written. You're absolutely right, of course, Lazarus. There are many examples of words (Particularly Hebrew words in the OT.) that scholars cannot translate, and many more words in which the translation is debated. For instance, the phrase "God Almighty" is so common that everyone has heard it at one time or another. Yet, that phrase, while coming from the Bible, may be incorrect. The phrase "el shaddai" appears several times in the OT, and though the word "el" is accepted as meaning "god," there is much debate surrounding the actual meaning of the Hebrew word "shaddai." Again, there are many other examples, if anyone wants to research it. In keeping with the theme of your thread, Lazarus, I have to say that it wasn't very loving of God to not make sure that his Instruction Manual was clear to everyone. In Spanish 'el' just means 'the'. Seems like a bit of a stretch to go from a very common word without much meaning in itself to 'god' but then I'm no language expert. |
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Ya and if you have a father that promises to beat you and burn you for all of eternity if you don't love him then I'm sure you love him purely because he created you? >,> There is no burning for eternity. You either receive eternal life through Jesus Christ, or eternal death because of sin. Revelation 20 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And there is no indication that it will be "torment" for those that were not found in the book of life. Just specifically references "second death" And this is also fairly clear as the previous verse in that chapter states the following 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. But again does not say man/woman will be tormented day and night, nor "insinuates" it. While I personally agree with you as regards what Hell was supposed to be (One of the few things that the Witnesses got right, IMO.), I'm sure that you know that there are many other passages that can easily be interpreted as saying that Hell is a place of fiery torment. (So, I won't bother quoting them.) And, this is another example that makes my earlier point about the vast differences in beliefs even among different sects of the same religion; a situation that shouldn't be observed, if ONE god were behind said religion. But, that still doesn't overturn Lazarus' point. If your human father told you that he would reward you for obeying him, but would literally kill you if you don't, would you feel impelled to love him? Or, would you just fear him? And, this is another example that makes my earlier point about the vast differences in beliefs even among different sects of the same religion; a situation that shouldn't be observed, if ONE god were behind said religion. Yeah, Satan's torment. Thus the reason for Hell in the first place. It is a "holding place" for Satan until God's final judgement. How does that statement relate to my statement about God supposedly saying contradictory things depending upon which middleman/sect is speaking? Why does God need a holding cell for Satan, anyway? He's GOD. Why wait for the final judgement? All of us little peons down here have to suffer while he delays the inevitable. That's also not very loving. But, that still doesn't overturn Lazarus' point. If your human father told you that he would reward you for obeying him, but would literally kill you if you don't, would you feel impelled to love him? Or, would you just fear him? No, you can't scare someone or threaten someone into loving you. Apparently God and many of his spokesmen don't share that opinion with you. I do, though. Nor would I "fear" him. At that level, eternal death would be a blessing in comparison to eternal life. Well, I have to agree with you there. Living forever while being compelled to worship a cosmic tyrant doesn't sound like much fun to me, either. How does that statement relate to my statement about God supposedly saying contradictory things depending upon which middleman/sect is speaking? Why does God need a holding cell for Satan, anyway? He's GOD. Why wait for the final judgement? All of us little peons down here have to suffer while he delays the inevitable. That's also not very loving. Because God allows Satan to have power in the Earth. Not saying total power, control, but some power on Earth. To cause havoc and "disruptions". As that was one of the downfalls/side effects of us being kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Apparently God and many of his spokesmen don't share that opinion with you. I do, though. You frightened of God or something? God has never tried to scare/frighten me, sorry for your unfortunates :(. |
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Edited by
Lazarus102
on
Wed 11/09/16 11:08 AM
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You frightened of God or something? God has never tried to scare/frighten me, sorry for your unfortunates :(. You're like a beaten housewife that just denies or makes excuses for anything and everything bad that her husband does. You even ignore how your own words contradict you. God doesn't send us to hell for not believing, he just kills us but you somehow see nothing wrong with that. It's worship him and live forever but if you don't then you're dead; you get to embrace that eternal nothingness that you fear so much if you don't believe in and worship him. Bit of irony there really; I mean the way that even within the religion itself it blends reality and fantasy and it does it so great. Step into the rabbit hole Alice, all will be well.. |
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The bible was translated from an ancient version of another language into an ancient version of English and then vaguely interpreted by modern day English speakers, who knows what the hell half of it initially meant when it was written. You're absolutely right, of course, Lazarus. There are many examples of words (Particularly Hebrew words in the OT.) that scholars cannot translate, and many more words in which the translation is debated. For instance, the phrase "God Almighty" is so common that everyone has heard it at one time or another. Yet, that phrase, while coming from the Bible, may be incorrect. The phrase "el shaddai" appears several times in the OT, and though the word "el" is accepted as meaning "god," there is much debate surrounding the actual meaning of the Hebrew word "shaddai." Again, there are many other examples, if anyone wants to research it. In keeping with the theme of your thread, Lazarus, I have to say that it wasn't very loving of God to not make sure that his Instruction Manual was clear to everyone. In Spanish 'el' just means 'the'. Seems like a bit of a stretch to go from a very common word without much meaning in itself to 'god' but then I'm no language expert. Well, the word "el" or its related forms have been around for roughly five-thousand years. It was used either as a generic term for gods or as the name of specific deities. It is worth noting that the Canaanites and the Mesopotamians worshiped a god named "El" long before the OT was written, or even before Israel existed. And, in some of those myths, Yahweh is depicted as one of El's sons. Ironic, given how much ink is wasted in the OT depicting Yahweh as bitching about the Canaanites, and ordering their obliteration. Heck, even the name "Israel" contains the word "el." It means, possibly, "Wrestles with God," "Triumphant with God," or "God contended." (See Genesis 32:28) Which once again illustrates just how much uncertainty there is in translating God's All-important Instruction Manual. Thanks, God. The more one studies mythology, the more one sees just how much newer myths built upon the framework of older ones. |
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How does that statement relate to my statement about God supposedly saying contradictory things depending upon which middleman/sect is speaking? Why does God need a holding cell for Satan, anyway? He's GOD. Why wait for the final judgement? All of us little peons down here have to suffer while he delays the inevitable. That's also not very loving. Because God allows Satan to have power in the Earth. Not saying total power, control, but some power on Earth. To cause havoc and "disruptions". As that was one of the downfalls/side effects of us being kicked out of the Garden of Eden. First off, that didn't answer my question. To paraphrase Captain Kirk: "What does GOD need with a holding cell?" He's GOD. Second, if God is allowing all of this human suffering to go on and on just as payback for Adam and Eve's ****-up, something none of us had ANYTHING to do with, then he's a cosmic-level dick. You have just bolstered Lazarus' contention in this thread. Apparently God and many of his spokesmen don't share that opinion with you. I do, though. You frightened of God or something? God has never tried to scare/frighten me, sorry for your unfortunates :(. No, I'm not frightened of God at all. It would be highly irrational to fear something that doesn't exist; and I'm not irrational. But, you are evading the point again. If you assert that God never tried to frighten you, I have to say that it sounds like you haven't read the entire Bible. |
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You frightened of God or something? God has never tried to scare/frighten me, sorry for your unfortunates :(. You're like a beaten housewife that just denies or makes excuses for anything and everything bad that her husband does. You even ignore how your own words contradict you. God doesn't send us to hell for not believing, he just kills us but you somehow see nothing wrong with that. It's worship him and live forever but if you don't then you're dead; you get to embrace that eternal nothingness that you fear so much if you don't believe in and worship him. Bit of irony there really; I mean the way that even within the religion itself it blends reality and fantasy and it does it so great. Step into the rabbit hole Alice, all will be well.. No, God doesn't send us to hell for not believing. Most too all of us will go to hell eventually if we're not living when Jesus returns for the final judgement. Thus, why Hell gives up the dead for judgement. Hell is nothing more then the grave, thus why i've spoken numerous times about hell being an old time word for the grave.... a holding place for the dead. God "kills" no one. God gives judgement of the laws he's spoken. Regardless if you give them merit or not, that is by your own choice. That is what we are judged on. you get to embrace that eternal nothingness that you fear so much if you don't believe in and worship him. Why always the personal attacks as above? Who ever said anything about fearing anything? Why fear death? |
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You frightened of God or something? God has never tried to scare/frighten me, sorry for your unfortunates :(. You're like a beaten housewife that just denies or makes excuses for anything and everything bad that her husband does. You even ignore how your own words contradict you. God doesn't send us to hell for not believing, he just kills us but you somehow see nothing wrong with that. It's worship him and live forever but if you don't then you're dead; you get to embrace that eternal nothingness that you fear so much if you don't believe in and worship him. Bit of irony there really; I mean the way that even within the religion itself it blends reality and fantasy and it does it so great. Step into the rabbit hole Alice, all will be well.. That's a good illustration, Lazarus. In a similar vein, I have frequently referred to God as a cosmic-level deadbeat dad. If you think about it, all the parallels are there, including the part where some of his abandoned children defend anything he does, including bending over backwards to make excuses for him and his absence. |
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Edited by
CowboyGH
on
Wed 11/09/16 11:56 AM
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You frightened of God or something? God has never tried to scare/frighten me, sorry for your unfortunates :(. You're like a beaten housewife that just denies or makes excuses for anything and everything bad that her husband does. You even ignore how your own words contradict you. God doesn't send us to hell for not believing, he just kills us but you somehow see nothing wrong with that. It's worship him and live forever but if you don't then you're dead; you get to embrace that eternal nothingness that you fear so much if you don't believe in and worship him. Bit of irony there really; I mean the way that even within the religion itself it blends reality and fantasy and it does it so great. Step into the rabbit hole Alice, all will be well.. That's a good illustration, Lazarus. In a similar vein, I have frequently referred to God as a cosmic-level deadbeat dad. If you think about it, all the parallels are there, including the part where some of his abandoned children defend anything he does, including bending over backwards to make excuses for him and his absence. His absence? I see and talk too God every day, sorry you miss out my friend. |
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Why always the personal attacks as above? Who ever said anything about fearing anything? Why fear death? As I've stated to you before, none of this is personal. IF you choose to take it as personal then that is your choice. I direct my debate at you only because you're currently the only one left arguing on the side of his existence/love (in this thread). |
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Edited by
Lazarus102
on
Wed 11/09/16 01:42 PM
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That's a good illustration, Lazarus. In a similar vein, I have frequently referred to God as a cosmic-level deadbeat dad. If you think about it, all the parallels are there, including the part where some of his abandoned children defend anything he does, including bending over backwards to make excuses for him and his absence. Much psychology went into creation of the bible. I don't doubt that the people that made up the original bible stories were smart beyond their time to come up with such compelling tales as to keep people believing through the centuries. Things like psychology, facts and politics went into those pages mixed in with all the fairy tales. Very well done indeed. Believing that stuff in modern day is just plain silly but the people that made it up in the first place were true geniuses and given the time frame and how much more susceptible it was to corruption and conspiracy; I have a theory that the world leaders of the time likely banded together to create religion as a way of controlling the people. With the governing bodies and religion you've got the carrot and the stick and when the carrot is backing up the stick by enforcing all the same rules wanted by the stick then you've got a firm stranglehold on the masses and few will fight against it. I know that religion has been around for longer than civilized society but the governing bodies found a way to mold and control it to their benefit and to this day people are still slaves to it's influence. Right down to the stupidest laws/practices like circumcision and monogamy. Ya, baby dick mutilation, thx Jews! Edit: Ya I know psychology in it's current form didn't even exist until the current century but when I speak of it's influence on the bible, I don't mean it in it's official form but only in what people learned in those times of how to control the people. The phrase Neuro-linguistic programming comes to mind but I can't think of an example at current as to how it applies. |
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Edited by
DavidM616
on
Thu 11/10/16 01:45 AM
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That's a good illustration, Lazarus. In a similar vein, I have frequently referred to God as a cosmic-level deadbeat dad. If you think about it, all the parallels are there, including the part where some of his abandoned children defend anything he does, including bending over backwards to make excuses for him and his absence. Much psychology went into creation of the bible. I don't doubt that the people that made up the original bible stories were smart beyond their time to come up with such compelling tales as to keep people believing through the centuries. Things like psychology, facts and politics went into those pages mixed in with all the fairy tales. Very well done indeed. Believing that stuff in modern day is just plain silly but the people that made it up in the first place were true geniuses and given the time frame and how much more susceptible it was to corruption and conspiracy; I have a theory that the world leaders of the time likely banded together to create religion as a way of controlling the people. With the governing bodies and religion you've got the carrot and the stick and when the carrot is backing up the stick by enforcing all the same rules wanted by the stick then you've got a firm stranglehold on the masses and few will fight against it. I know that religion has been around for longer than civilized society but the governing bodies found a way to mold and control it to their benefit and to this day people are still slaves to it's influence. Right down to the stupidest laws/practices like circumcision and monogamy. Ya, baby dick mutilation, thx Jews! Edit: Ya I know psychology in it's current form didn't even exist until the current century but when I speak of it's influence on the bible, I don't mean it in it's official form but only in what people learned in those times of how to control the people. The phrase Neuro-linguistic programming comes to mind but I can't think of an example at current as to how it applies. Well, as I implied in my earlier post, most of the stories in the OT were built upon the framework of older myths. And, many of the stories in the NT were built upon stories from the OT. Newer myths built upon previous myths. That said, I agree with you as far as the genius of some of the creators of these stories. A good example of this would be the Yahwists coming up with the idea that it was the PEOPLES' fault if Yahweh didn't save them from another nation. (You know:"Yahweh CHOSE not to save you, because you are all a bunch of shitheads.") Previously, it was pretty much accepted that if your nation got thumped on by another nation, then their gods were stronger than yours. The Yahwists' stroke of genius not only played upon peoples' inner sense of guilt, but also guaranteed that, no matter what happened, it wasn't Yahweh's fault. Therefore, he would continue to be worshiped. And, they would cash in. Speaking of cashing in: In addition to control, another reason for the storytellers to come up with these stories is that they figured out that, while getting a real job is hard, if they could spin some good stories about god(s), the rest of their fellow citizens would pay them for it! This is readily apparent when you read the OT. There are many places where the writers depict Yahweh as instructing the common people to give the priests lots of goodies. Also..."baby dick mutilation." Haha! (Ironically enough, even THAT likely came, not from God, but from the Egyptians.) |
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You frightened of God or something? God has never tried to scare/frighten me, sorry for your unfortunates :(. You're like a beaten housewife that just denies or makes excuses for anything and everything bad that her husband does. You even ignore how your own words contradict you. God doesn't send us to hell for not believing, he just kills us but you somehow see nothing wrong with that. It's worship him and live forever but if you don't then you're dead; you get to embrace that eternal nothingness that you fear so much if you don't believe in and worship him. Bit of irony there really; I mean the way that even within the religion itself it blends reality and fantasy and it does it so great. Step into the rabbit hole Alice, all will be well.. That's a good illustration, Lazarus. In a similar vein, I have frequently referred to God as a cosmic-level deadbeat dad. If you think about it, all the parallels are there, including the part where some of his abandoned children defend anything he does, including bending over backwards to make excuses for him and his absence. His absence? I see and talk too God every day, sorry you miss out my friend. Oh, that's okay. No need to be sorry. If he's anywhere near as loquacious, boorish, and repetitive in person as he is in the OT, I'd rather not talk to him anyway. Wait a minute... On second thought, please tell him that I have some questions I'd really like to ask him, if he wouldn't mind stopping by my place for a bit. Thanks. Also, allow me to quote something I said a couple of pages back that's apropos here: Yeah, though I haven't read the entire thread, I did read a lot of the earliest posts. That's the way it generally goes. When you apply logic to these stories, they fall apart. So, anyone trying to defend them generally ends up either: 1.As you said, tossing any type of definable, objective evidence out the window, and falling back totally on faith. 2. Claiming that God actually IS literally talking to them. (A safe haven for them, since you cannot disprove the notion across the internet, no matter how much you point out how unlikely that notion is.) 3.Spinning like a tornado, in an attempt to make it look like certain words or phrases might kinda', sorta', perhaps if you squint real hard from fifty feet away, mean what they claim they mean, rather than the most obvious and generally accepted meanings. (Like your example about when someone farts, that is somehow God "talking" to us. Or, torturing the term "generation" used in Matthew 24:34, so as to rescue Jesus' "prophecy" there.) 4. Again, as you said, getting angry at you. |
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