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Topic: Misdirected Vigilantaism,, a shame
msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Thu 03/22/12 12:52 PM
his STATE OF MIND, is not immaterial that he said the 'aholes' always 'get away' and that he was at some point following the boy,,,shows a predator state of mind,,, Really? Predator? Is that your professional opinion, or is there some criteria you can link to show how one determines that? To me it sounded like a person frustrated with all the burglaries in his neighborhood who wanted the police to be able to question someone who looked like he was scoping out houses. Its my opinion Martin probably lost his way in the rain in a neighborhood he did not live in was only visiting and it may in fact look just like a criminal scoping out houses. Sad really. Its too bad that the altercation was not stopped when the neighbor came out and added his voice to Zimmerman's to have martin stop beating him. The teen might be alive if he had complied then with a witness available. It is also sad that the witness did not have the balls to stay put. its my use of the english language predator: : a person who looks for other people in order to use, control, or harm them in some way was he not 'looking' for this one? did he not show irritation that others had 'got away'? was that the mind of someone who thought someone or something should not 'get away', but instead be caught? once he caught him, what was his intention? did he have the right to confront him, someone he didnt know, who had done nothing to him? Was it his business to do so or to question that person about their intentions, BEFORE , they had done anything illegal? predator state of mind " I want to make sure they are caught unless they can assure ME of a good reason for them to be here" sounds like looking for someone for some level of CONTROL over them,,, ,,,,,predator,,,

Bushidobillyclub Joined Fri 05/11/07 Posts: 5689	Thu 03/22/12 12:55 PM
his STATE OF MIND, is not immaterial that he said the 'aholes' always 'get away' and that he was at some point following the boy,,,shows a predator state of mind,,, Really? Predator? Is that your professional opinion, or is there some criteria you can link to show how one determines that? To me it sounded like a person frustrated with all the burglaries in his neighborhood who wanted the police to be able to question someone who looked like he was scoping out houses. Its my opinion Martin probably lost his way in the rain in a neighborhood he did not live in was only visiting and it may in fact look just like a criminal scoping out houses. Sad really. Its too bad that the altercation was not stopped when the neighbor came out and added his voice to Zimmerman's to have martin stop beating him. The teen might be alive if he had complied then with a witness available. It is also sad that the witness did not have the balls to stay put. its my use of the english language predator: : a person who looks for other people in order to use, control, or harm them in some way was he not 'looking' for this one? did he not show irritation that others had 'got away'? was that the mind of someone who thought someone or something should not 'get away', but instead be caught? once he caught him, what was his intention? did he have the right to confront him, someone he didnt know, who had done nothing to him? Was it his business to do so or to question that person about their intentions, BEFORE , they had done anything illegal? predator state of mind " I want to make sure they are caught unless they can assure ME of a good reason for them to be here" sounds like looking for someone for some level of CONTROL over them,,, ,,,,,predator,,, Wow, so all cops are predators in your book.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Thu 03/22/12 12:58 PM
his STATE OF MIND, is not immaterial that he said the 'aholes' always 'get away' and that he was at some point following the boy,,,shows a predator state of mind,,, Really? Predator? Is that your professional opinion, or is there some criteria you can link to show how one determines that? To me it sounded like a person frustrated with all the burglaries in his neighborhood who wanted the police to be able to question someone who looked like he was scoping out houses. Its my opinion Martin probably lost his way in the rain in a neighborhood he did not live in was only visiting and it may in fact look just like a criminal scoping out houses. Sad really. Its too bad that the altercation was not stopped when the neighbor came out and added his voice to Zimmerman's to have martin stop beating him. The teen might be alive if he had complied then with a witness available. It is also sad that the witness did not have the balls to stay put. its my use of the english language predator: : a person who looks for other people in order to use, control, or harm them in some way was he not 'looking' for this one? did he not show irritation that others had 'got away'? was that the mind of someone who thought someone or something should not 'get away', but instead be caught? once he caught him, what was his intention? did he have the right to confront him, someone he didnt know, who had done nothing to him? Was it his business to do so or to question that person about their intentions, BEFORE , they had done anything illegal? predator state of mind " I want to make sure they are caught unless they can assure ME of a good reason for them to be here" sounds like looking for someone for some level of CONTROL over them,,, ,,,,,predator,,, Wow, so all cops are predators in your book. no, COPS have a job to seek out people who are breaking laws this man was breaking no law by minding his business and walking in the rain at night,,, If a cop had pursued him (unless there is a curfew there), there would have been issues,, let alone if he had killed him,,,

Bushidobillyclub Joined Fri 05/11/07 Posts: 5689	Thu 03/22/12 01:29 PM Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Thu 03/22/12 01:32 PM
his STATE OF MIND, is not immaterial that he said the 'aholes' always 'get away' and that he was at some point following the boy,,,shows a predator state of mind,,, Really? Predator? Is that your professional opinion, or is there some criteria you can link to show how one determines that? To me it sounded like a person frustrated with all the burglaries in his neighborhood who wanted the police to be able to question someone who looked like he was scoping out houses. Its my opinion Martin probably lost his way in the rain in a neighborhood he did not live in was only visiting and it may in fact look just like a criminal scoping out houses. Sad really. Its too bad that the altercation was not stopped when the neighbor came out and added his voice to Zimmerman's to have martin stop beating him. The teen might be alive if he had complied then with a witness available. It is also sad that the witness did not have the balls to stay put. its my use of the english language predator: : a person who looks for other people in order to use, control, or harm them in some way was he not 'looking' for this one? did he not show irritation that others had 'got away'? was that the mind of someone who thought someone or something should not 'get away', but instead be caught? once he caught him, what was his intention? did he have the right to confront him, someone he didnt know, who had done nothing to him? Was it his business to do so or to question that person about their intentions, BEFORE , they had done anything illegal? predator state of mind " I want to make sure they are caught unless they can assure ME of a good reason for them to be here" sounds like looking for someone for some level of CONTROL over them,,, ,,,,,predator,,, Wow, so all cops are predators in your book. no, COPS have a job to seek out people who are breaking laws this man was breaking no law by minding his business and walking in the rain at night,,, If a cop had pursued him (unless there is a curfew there), there would have been issues,, let alone if he had killed him,,, Sanford police have stated that Zimmerman was trained as a Neighborhood watch person, the media is full of crap on this one. Best to stay neutral until facts that can be sourced are available. We do not know how the altercation started, assuming you do is dishonest. He was doing what he saw as a service to the community (at least as he claims it, and as many have come out to say he was a nice guy who helped kids and was not racists, they allege to know him, I dont so I will not jump to conclusions one way or the other to do so is childish and the definition of uncritical thinking.)

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Thu 03/22/12 01:36 PM
trained by whom? "The alleged action of a 'self-appointed neighborhood watchman' last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program," NSA Executive Director Aaron D. Kennard, Sheriff (ret.) said in the press statement. "NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program." The USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program manual advises volunteers about how to notice basic things about persons deemed to be suspicious such as height, weight, style of dress, and hair color. Local law enforcement agents also work with official groups to tailor specifications concerning how to discern potential criminal activity depending on the particular communities they are in. In this way, Neighborhood Watch has assured theGrio that the potential for racial profiling is curtailed. In Zimmerman's case, he would have recognized that Trayvon Martin was a non-suspicious part of the citizenry had he received proper training. The complex where he was killed is middle class and mixed race. But registration with the USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program -- which would have provided this training -- is not a requirement for forming a group http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/zimmerman-not-a-member-of-recognized-neighborhood-watch-organization.php

Bushidobillyclub Joined Fri 05/11/07 Posts: 5689	Thu 03/22/12 01:40 PM Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Thu 03/22/12 01:42 PM
trained by whom? "The alleged action of a 'self-appointed neighborhood watchman' last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program," NSA Executive Director Aaron D. Kennard, Sheriff (ret.) said in the press statement. "NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program." The USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program manual advises volunteers about how to notice basic things about persons deemed to be suspicious such as height, weight, style of dress, and hair color. Local law enforcement agents also work with official groups to tailor specifications concerning how to discern potential criminal activity depending on the particular communities they are in. In this way, Neighborhood Watch has assured theGrio that the potential for racial profiling is curtailed. In Zimmerman's case, he would have recognized that Trayvon Martin was a non-suspicious part of the citizenry had he received proper training. The complex where he was killed is middle class and mixed race. But registration with the USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program -- which would have provided this training -- is not a requirement for forming a group http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/zimmerman-not-a-member-of-recognized-neighborhood-watch-organization.php I already said, the Sanford police. It was not a national program. The Neighborhood watch where I live is handled by the JSO, NOT the natioanl program. More media not checking anything beyond whatever they want to believe. Anyone claiming to know what did or did not qualify as suspicious is speculating based on what Z said in the 911 tape and cannot really say one way or the other without seeing it themselves. I have already described how a person who is lost might look like they are scoping out a house. Again its sad, but does not show any kind of "predator" mentality on Z's part, just shows an outrageous media working the public into a frenzy. The sheeple are falling for it hook line and sinker.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Thu 03/22/12 01:43 PM
trained by whom? "The alleged action of a 'self-appointed neighborhood watchman' last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program," NSA Executive Director Aaron D. Kennard, Sheriff (ret.) said in the press statement. "NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program." The USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program manual advises volunteers about how to notice basic things about persons deemed to be suspicious such as height, weight, style of dress, and hair color. Local law enforcement agents also work with official groups to tailor specifications concerning how to discern potential criminal activity depending on the particular communities they are in. In this way, Neighborhood Watch has assured theGrio that the potential for racial profiling is curtailed. In Zimmerman's case, he would have recognized that Trayvon Martin was a non-suspicious part of the citizenry had he received proper training. The complex where he was killed is middle class and mixed race. But registration with the USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program -- which would have provided this training -- is not a requirement for forming a group http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/zimmerman-not-a-member-of-recognized-neighborhood-watch-organization.php I already said, the Sanford police. It was not a national program. The Neighborhood watch where I live is handled by the JSO, NOT the natioanl program. More media not checking anything beyond whatever they want to believe. I can understand that. So where is the link to Sanford police saying they trained Zimmerman for neighborhood watch?

Bushidobillyclub Joined Fri 05/11/07 Posts: 5689	Thu 03/22/12 01:44 PM
trained by whom? "The alleged action of a 'self-appointed neighborhood watchman' last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program," NSA Executive Director Aaron D. Kennard, Sheriff (ret.) said in the press statement. "NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program." The USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program manual advises volunteers about how to notice basic things about persons deemed to be suspicious such as height, weight, style of dress, and hair color. Local law enforcement agents also work with official groups to tailor specifications concerning how to discern potential criminal activity depending on the particular communities they are in. In this way, Neighborhood Watch has assured theGrio that the potential for racial profiling is curtailed. In Zimmerman's case, he would have recognized that Trayvon Martin was a non-suspicious part of the citizenry had he received proper training. The complex where he was killed is middle class and mixed race. But registration with the USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program -- which would have provided this training -- is not a requirement for forming a group http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/zimmerman-not-a-member-of-recognized-neighborhood-watch-organization.php I already said, the Sanford police. It was not a national program. The Neighborhood watch where I live is handled by the JSO, NOT the natioanl program. More media not checking anything beyond whatever they want to believe. I can understand that. So where is the link to Sanford police saying they trained Zimmerman for neighborhood watch? Find it yourself. I am done.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Thu 03/22/12 01:45 PM
trained by whom? "The alleged action of a 'self-appointed neighborhood watchman' last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program," NSA Executive Director Aaron D. Kennard, Sheriff (ret.) said in the press statement. "NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program." The USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program manual advises volunteers about how to notice basic things about persons deemed to be suspicious such as height, weight, style of dress, and hair color. Local law enforcement agents also work with official groups to tailor specifications concerning how to discern potential criminal activity depending on the particular communities they are in. In this way, Neighborhood Watch has assured theGrio that the potential for racial profiling is curtailed. In Zimmerman's case, he would have recognized that Trayvon Martin was a non-suspicious part of the citizenry had he received proper training. The complex where he was killed is middle class and mixed race. But registration with the USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program -- which would have provided this training -- is not a requirement for forming a group http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/zimmerman-not-a-member-of-recognized-neighborhood-watch-organization.php I already said, the Sanford police. It was not a national program. The Neighborhood watch where I live is handled by the JSO, NOT the natioanl program. More media not checking anything beyond whatever they want to believe. I can understand that. So where is the link to Sanford police saying they trained Zimmerman for neighborhood watch? Find it yourself. I am done. lol kind of thought so,, me too,,,,

AdventureBegins Joined Tue 04/10/07 Posts: 7666	Thu 03/22/12 08:12 PM
I am inclined to believe that this is a case of mutual fear gone bad... Two men.. (17 Y/O is a man though but young in age). Each had fears and suspected a stranger. both bared fangs and gave battle. One died (for the other carried a gun). Yet... What true watchman does not know the people that live where he patrols...? What young man does not know the person of the watchman where he lives (so he can take a safe path)...? Only in a place were fear and difference exist can such a thing happen... Else both men would have known each other by the content of their character... Instead of their difference.

Dragoness Joined Wed 10/17/07 Posts: 23320	Thu 03/22/12 10:12 PM
Heads need to roll on this one. The man shot an unarmed 17 year old based on skin color alone. I have been informed by whites in the south personally that a black person enter their neighborhood after dark especially, they won't come out alive. So this just verifies that some of them mean it.

InvictusV Joined Sun 11/23/08 Posts: 5282	Fri 03/23/12 03:25 AM
Driving into to work this morning I was listening to news and they are now describing Zimmerman as white hispanic.. WTF Does anyone call Obama a white african?

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Fri 03/23/12 03:36 AM
Driving into to work this morning I was listening to news and they are now describing Zimmerman as white hispanic.. WTF Does anyone call Obama a white african? anything to SPIN a Tale! And please take that FC Bayern-Sign down! Can't forget the trouncing FC Basel got anyway!

InvictusV Joined Sun 11/23/08 Posts: 5282	Fri 03/23/12 04:51 AM
Driving into to work this morning I was listening to news and they are now describing Zimmerman as white hispanic.. WTF Does anyone call Obama a white african? anything to SPIN a Tale! And please take that FC Bayern-Sign down! Can't forget the trouncing FC Basel got anyway! I won't forget watching the trouncing Basel got.. haha.. Should have been worse than 7-0..

Conrad_73 Joined Sat 09/29/07 Posts: 22488	Fri 03/23/12 05:42 AM
Driving into to work this morning I was listening to news and they are now describing Zimmerman as white hispanic.. WTF Does anyone call Obama a white african? anything to SPIN a Tale! And please take that FC Bayern-Sign down! Can't forget the trouncing FC Basel got anyway! I won't forget watching the trouncing Basel got.. haha.. Should have been worse than 7-0.. OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bushidobillyclub Joined Fri 05/11/07 Posts: 5689	Fri 03/23/12 07:14 AM
Heads need to roll on this one. The man shot an unarmed 17 year old based on skin color alone. I have been informed by whites in the south personally that a black person enter their neighborhood after dark especially, they won't come out alive. So this just verifies that some of them mean it. WHAT? I have lived in the south all my life, this has to be the silliest thing I have ever heard. Racism is alive and well, and mostly unsaid except in private company where the racists knows you wont call him out on it. This issue is as far from racism as it can possibly get. I cant know the mind of either person involved so it would be intellectually dishonest for me to claim like you have that I know them. HOWEVER, the elements of the crime had nothing to do with race, that neighborhood is full of Black, White, and Brown people. Zimmerman has people coming out on his behalf, black, white, and brown, telling a story of his character which does not match this media drivel you are reproducing. What do we know of Martin? Huh? All I know is he was suspended from school for some reason. Do you know why? Was it drugs? Was it fighting? What was it? Find that out if you can and get back to me. The real hinge in this case is the main eye witness. Its up to that fellow to determine how savage of an attack it was, and if it looked like Zimmerman could have left. So far all we know is that Zimmerman was on his back, and Martin was over him hitting him, we do not know anything else, and to pretend you do tells a lot about your ability to be objective.

Bushidobillyclub Joined Fri 05/11/07 Posts: 5689	Fri 03/23/12 09:19 AM Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Fri 03/23/12 09:33 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/justice/florida-teen-zimmerman/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 Sanford, Florida (CNN) -- Current and former neighbors call George Zimmerman caring, passionate and polite, a regular guy they enjoyed being around. "A race thing? That is definitely not the case," Eric Gross of Greenville, South Carolina, said on Thursday. "He is by far not anywhere near a racist. I wasn't there, but he was a good guy." Zimmerman attended a four-month law-enforcement program in 2008 at the sheriff's office, said Kim Cannaday, spokeswoman for the Seminole County sheriff's office. In his application for the course, Zimmerman wrote: "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard and I hope to one day become one." "Zimmerman is not a racist," he told Velez-Mitchell. "George Zimmerman is a caring man." In Manassas, Virginia, former neighbor George Hall recalled Zimmerman as being a polite young man. Hall wrote a positive recommendation for Zimmerman, who he said wanted to attend a police academy. Hall called the Zimmermans good neighbors. "They were all good. Helpful, friendly, cheerful. I never saw anything negative in any of them," he told CNN's Brian Todd. "I just never did. I'm floored. I really am." Trayvon was under a five-day suspension when he was shot that Sunday night, but Kypriss said it was due to tardiness and not misbehavior. "Trayvon was not a violent or dangerous child. He was not known for misbehaving," the teacher said. "He was suspended because he was late too many times." Based on this we have two good people who got into a fight somehow and we need more info from the main witness to know how it went down. I really do hope better info helps solve this tragedy, but only with objective FACTS, and not all of this media hysteria.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Fri 03/23/12 12:19 PM
I hope it is solved too. But I fear the available 'facts' will be too slim to prove or disprove who initiated the threat of deadly force, to either justify or condemn this boys death.

Bushidobillyclub Joined Fri 05/11/07 Posts: 5689	Fri 03/23/12 02:06 PM
I hope it is solved too. But I fear the available 'facts' will be too slim to prove or disprove who initiated the threat of deadly force, to either justify or condemn this boys death. I agree, but a system of justice can only be built on facts. Anything else is despotism, tyranny, or anarchy.

msharmony Joined Mon 08/31/09 Posts: 61041	Fri 03/23/12 02:20 PM Edited by msharmony on Fri 03/23/12 02:21 PM
Driving into to work this morning I was listening to news and they are now describing Zimmerman as white hispanic.. WTF Does anyone call Obama a white african? I have to explain american demographics here african is a nationality, and africa is actually a continent white is a race hispanic is an ethnicity we could call obama a white african, although he is not from the nation of africa,,, we recognize the HISPANIC ethnicity because of their growing numbers in america and so our census now includes white (not of hispanic ethnicity),,, which implies that there is also a white that is of hispanic descent,,, there is also black (not of hispanic ethnicity), which implies there is also black of hispanic ethnicity there is not yet on our census,, white of african ethnicity,,, I suspect, the original story just described zimmerman as white, and fearing racial overtones, the family wanted to make sure he was identified as hispanic perhaps feeling that would change the racial overtone of the story,,,,