Let's discuss "Going to Hell"...

http://youtu.be/XicnbW06fbk

GOING TO HELL?

REALLY????

I thought this was hell?

I am so screwed!

I disagree with the pastor on much of what he says. Obviously people who have not heard about 'jesus' are not automatically condemned.

Jesus must know us, but he knows us by our faith and works

we cant REJECT Jesus, but that is different than never knowing about him at all,,,

For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. (Romans 2:14-16)

I am THEE way, THEE Truth, THEE light,, is true, because it is the judgment of JESUS which decides our spiritual faith,, it is not an indicator that people must turn to Jesus (especially if they do not know of him)

really? there's something worse?...

You wanna go to hell try going into a Wal*Mart round 5 to 6 on a Friday oh man so evil

Could not agree more lol

No way, Walmart was soooo fun, I could stay there all day. Hmmm I did drag Annaconda around their for hours.



But as to going to hell..

Yeh I probably will

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Questions #6

Will anyone who doesn't know Jesus go to hell?

And

What if you never heard of Jesus at all?

~~~~~~~

I can answer these questions for my self far better than this Pastor answered them.

6.a Will anyone who doesn't know Jesus go to hell?

ANSWER: It's impossible to know Jesus. No one can know Jesus. He supposed lived and died over 2000 year ago, and all that that is known about him comes from a single hearsay collection of stories that cannot be verified to be true through any known independent historical evidence or records.

Therefore no modern day person can known Jesus. And thus this question is moot.

6.b What if you never heard of Jesus at all?

It doesn't matter. Even if these stories were true they have Jesus himself stating clearly that it is not important to believe in him or his words:


John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.


So even according to these scriptures a belief or recognition of Jesus in any way is totally unimportant based on the words that have been attributed to him by these very scriptures.

(This also shows that these scriptures are filled with contradictions and conflicting claims because as the pastor in the video clearly showed contradicting verses in these very scriptures can indeed be found)

So which "face" of Jesus are we supposed to believe. The face that tells us he will judge no man for not believing in him, or "face" that claims otherwise?

By the way, the verse used by the Pastor in the video that he showed from the Book of Acts, isn't even attributed directly to Jesus, that's just a hearsay opinionated verse written by someone else, probably Paul.

Moreover, the other verse this pastor used, John 14:6 "No one comes to the father but through me", does not imply that anyone needs to actually believe in Jesus for that to happen. You could not believe in Jesus or even never have heard of him, and you could still get to the father "through" Jesus.

The reason being that Jesus taught how to behave.

Notice in John 12:48 Jesus supposedly says that following:


John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


In other words, it's not Jesus who saves anyone, but rather the teachings of Jesus that "save" people. And Jesus basically taught the same things as Buddha. He rejected the hostilities of the Torah or Old Testament. He renounced the judging of others, the stoning to death of sinners. He renounced the seeking of revenge as in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and instead he taught forgiveness and to turn the other cheek.

So if you do the things that Jesus taught you will get to the Father via your own actions. It's Karma.

Moreover, Buddha taught the very same things, no one gets to the Father but through Buddha as well. Both of these men taught the same moral and behavior concepts.

The verse from Acts that the pastor in the video referred to is simply a lie.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

This is not even claimed to be a quote of Jesus. This is just hearsay speculation on the part of the author of Acts. It's not even known for sure who wrote the book of Acts. Many believe it may have been written by Luke, but no one knows for sure who wrote it.

In any case it doesn't even claim to be quoting Jesus here. So this is just someone's personal opinion and did not even come from Jesus.

~~~~

So as far as I can see, there's absolutely no need to believe in Jesus at all. However, if a person believes that Jesus spoke wisdom and truth, then they would so well to follow his behavioral advice which is precisely the same advice that had been given by Buddha, and others long before Jesus had even been born.

Moreover, Jesus did not support the Torah or Old Testament as the verbatim word of God. On the contrary he clearly disagreed with many of the moral and behavioral concepts that had been taught in those older fables.

So nowhere does Jesus even remotely imply that it's important for anyone to respect the teachings of the Torah or Old Testament. And he didn't necessarily support any of the bigotries or prejudices that stem from those teachings. Nor did he prophecies the coming of Paul to finish his work. Nowhere does Jesus authorize or predict that some guy named Saul/Paul will be coming along to dredge up things from the Old Testament in Jesus' name.

So it's not important to believe in Jesus. It's not important to believe in Paul. And it's certainly not important to believe in the Old Testament stories of a "God".

In fact, a person would probably get a far better picture of what Jesus was trying to teach if they just turn to Mahayana Buddhism instead. That would clarify what Jesus was actually teaching without the need to bring any "jealous-god" concept into the picture.

He loves Power. He will be judged. Loves Hell and the Power he gets from preaching it.. Satan will have a Kingdom according to him.

By the way, I'm on dial-up and it took a very long time to watch this video.

I wrote my post above before I actually heard how ignorant this guy was going to become.

He's basically screaming at people in a state of heated emotion that if they don't believe in Jesus they are "Going to Hell".

But look at what I've just posted above. His whole Fire and Brimstone sermons is based entirely on his own extremely biased choices of which verses to dig out from scriptures to answer his questions.

He pretends that he has shown that there is no other way to get to heaven but through "a belief" in Jesus, which flies directly in the face of Jesus very own words in John 12:47.

So where does he get off spitting in the face of Jesus own words?

He spits in the face of Jesus' words by not revealing them to his congregation, and then he stands there preaching to them that they will go to hell if they don't believe in Jesus and accept Jesus as their savior.

He has absolutely no "real" scriptural support for his stance.

Sure he can point to Act 14:12, but that flies in the face of Jesus' supposedly OWN WORDS in John 12:47.

He basically has NO RIGHT to interpret these scriptures in his own way and then stand there screaming at other people that he speaks the "gospel truth" because the "gospel truth" is entirely up to personal interpretation.

Moreover, that was the whole idea beyond the Protestant Reformation.

Protestantism was basically a protest against the Catholic Church and the idea of Papal Authority were one man is appoint Pope and it's his job to interpret scriptures for everyone else.

In short, this is basically a Protestant Preacher who rejects Protestantism and is trying to become a self-appointed Pope.

He rejects the very essence of Protestantism, and he also rejects the very WORDS of Jesus in John 12:47 by simply omitting them in his sermons.

He just preaching HIS OWN PERSONAL ideals.

That's all he's doing.

I would gladly get up on that very same stage after he's done and offer my view which you can see is Quite Different.

I know Jesus, I speak to him everyday and he speaks back.



That is no where near what he said. Jesus CAME NOT to judge the world. The reason he was on the Earth was not to judge anyone. Jesus will not judge anyone until judgment time at the second coming. All Jesus was doing the first time here was finishing one covenant and giving us a new to replace to old completed one.



??? must we forget that Jesus' word(s) said this "Matthew 10:33

33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven

So no a judgment is not required for those whom deny Jesus. Their verdict in the trial is already said to us.



You are mistaken my friend. Jesus did recognize it as the verbatim word of God. Jesus was here to fulfill that covenant/laws. He finished out those prophecies. The laws given to us by our heavenly father only hold power till all things be fulfilled.



No, cause again those law(s) hold no more power over us. The law(s) we are to abide by are in the new covenant, which Jesus gave to us.

In that case, you are not a 'believer' who believes on 'faith'.

Evidently you're in the same category with Saul/Paul. You're actually having conversations with Jesus and in this regard you care claiming to have a position of divine authority that goes far beyond what most humans would claim.

Most preachers don't even claim such things.

This man was speaking about "believers", not people who are actually conversing with Jesus. There would be no need to try to convince such people to 'believe' in Jesus on faith alone if they were supposedly already having conversations with him.

When Jesus speaks to me I too will become a "believer".

Until then, I'm afraid you have an extremely unique and unfair advantage over most people.

You have no need for faith, since you can converse with Jesus at will.





Did Jesus just now tell you that? Or is this merely your interpretations of scriptures?

I think this religion is extremely dangerous when it gets people to actually believe that they are speaking directly with a divine being. That would mean that they can never be wrong and that their views and opinions aren't even their own, but rather you are basically claiming to SPEAK FOR JESUS when you claim to be having active conversations with him.







Again, is this merely your perverted personal interpretations or is Jesus speaking THROUGH YOU to be sure that everyone knows the truth?



With all honestly Cowboy I have absolutely no respect for people who claim to be the "voice of God", and that's basically what you are doing when you claim to have direct conversations with Jesus.




I disagree. Based on the things that the gospels have Jesus teaching, Jesus did not even remotely agree with the ignorant things that had been taught in the Torah.



What Jesus tried to give to us was the wisdom of Buddha.

But the Christians have desecrated it and have turned it into a machine of religious bigotry and prejudices held out in the name of Jesus as "The Christ Almighty".

Then when confronted with their lies some of them go off the deep and and claim to be in direct communication with Jesus thus giving their views and opinions superiority over everyone else's views.

That's how cults get started like the ones created by Jim Jones and David Koresh.

It's far better to tell the TRUTH Cowboy. Claiming to be in direct communication with a 2000 year-old demigod is pretty desperate even for a proselytizer.

You'd be far better off keeping that claim to yourself.

And like I say, if he ever SPEAKS to me, then I too will become a "believer", because I will no longer be asked to have mere "faith".

In fact, I have tons of questions for him, so if he ever speaks to me he better be prepared to stick around for tea.

It's pretty desperate when people start claiming to actually be speaking to God.

Are you claiming to have the same authority as Moses, Noah, Saul/Paul etc?

That's pretty extreme don't you think?

I speak with Jesus here and there. I ask him about how his family is doing and how work is treating him.

OH I GET IT! You Speak TO the dead one. Well then, since you my Cowboy seem to have a direct line to Jesus, I got a real good question for him.

When faced by another who will indeed try to kill you and you must kill that person to live, am I sinning taking a life in my self defense? Now let us make this more interesting.

Let us say someone threatened to kill me and instead I with my bare hands kill that person on the spot since they threatened to shoot me dead first chance they got. We are talking about a person stating they will kill me given the chance vs. me acting preemptively on their threat. Am I still sinning?

Also ask him how the weather is in heaven!

Just curious.

Oh, you do know you are worshiping a Jew?

Matthew 5:38-39, Jesus says:

"You have heard that it was said, 'eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Jesus speaks to us all, listen and you'll be amazed at what you hear.



Matthew 5:17, Jesus says:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them.



I'm no voice, I'm nothing special. Merely a person spreading the word of God.



What Jesus taught and what Buddha teaches, are similar yes. But no where near exact.

Oh to have such conviction!


When he said, "YES! YES!"....I almost got excited....


Shame I don't share his convictions....and I sure hope he doesn't mess up...'cause HE knows what HIS hell is gonna look like!


Thanks s1ow....that was a giggle...

"Open your eyes! This is the life we chose, the life we lead. And there is only one guarantee: none of us will see heaven." John Rooney-Road to Perdition

Just because you have delusions about talking with an ancient demigod doesn't mean that anyone takes you seriously.

Like I say, you're starting to sound like Jim Jones or David Koresh.

I personally don't give people much respect when they go off the deep end like this. You clearly recognize that the religion can't be supported rationally so you resort to outrageous claims in the hope that you'll suck someone in.

Well, I can assure you that you can indeed suck people in with that kind of talk. After all, look at how many people got sucked into the baloney of Jim Jones and David Koresh. Unfortunately desperate people will fall for anything.

Abra, I knew you would be HOT for this one!

Jesus may have came to full fill some laws but they would more in the line with the laws of Buddha , since Buddhism existed before Christianity and Jesus supposedly traveled during his early Adults years and didn't start his ministry until age 30 being exposed to the concepts of Buddhism could explain where Jesus received the concepts for his teachings

the concept pertaining to resurrection and the Dalai Lama would explain the concept behind the second coming of Christ ...Jesus could in fact be The Dalai lama