Most GP's (general practioners) today do not even do there own diognosing. They are required by an insurance provider to use a data base for the task. Some of them are not even capable of diagnosing any more. they learned or bought just enough schooling to get there MD and now rely on such data base's. Why the hell do they still think they are entitled to so much money? Why is it that in todays world the cost of most everything the planet is affected by supply and demand, but not the medical field? Good ole boys club at it's finest! Sorry, don't really know how I got so off topic!

and so it used to be here also jess, minus the solar panels when i was growing up.we had little but honestly were happier then. my neice is getting married next month - she knowws how to boil water and stick things in the microwave to eat. and can make instant macaroni and cheese and popcorn - how will she survive when her husband wants a real meal - go out all the time? i really feel for both this generation and the coming ones.

So why not find some of that illusionary stuff called time, and see about accessing a community space and teach young people some of these skills?

One person can make a massive difference... we started with a group of like minded people just jammin' with music, and drew young people in... we now have a food co -op, and are starting a community garden here... we bullied for the space, we beseeched ministers - (government ones) for an ear, and some support...

one person can make a vast difference, if the heart is willing..

how's that for new age?

I must disagree. I don't think you can blame capitalism any more than you can blame science.

Definition: Capitalism is an economic system in which capital goods are owned, operated and traded by private individuals, businesses, or corporations for the purpose of profit.

The objection to the capitalistic system is based on the idea that profit is unethical. This is absurd.

Profit is simply a representation of value added.

You buy a pencil for 10 cents in a store. You take it out to the street and sell it for 15 cents. You have added the "value" of not having to go into the store to buy a pencil. The person that buys the pencil pays 5 cents so that they don’t have to bother with going into the store to buy it. That's capitalism. How is it unethical?

If profit is immoral, then being compensated for doing work must also be immoral.

The saddest irony is that people who say that "capitalism is bad" understand so little about capitalism that they have no idea that the paycheck they get from their employer is profit. The very act of accepting payment in exchange for doing work is capitalism in action..

Quite simply, pure capitalism is the only “free market” that there is. Anything else is nothing more than one group forcing their financial policy on another group.

So in reality, the problem is not capitalism, the problem is the absence of capitalism.

Ok, profit as the first priority is the problem which I think my post was pretty clear about. I was being general in the use of the word capitalism, but gave specific examples sky . . . this is what happens when you take the word and not the example.

And who brought up ethics and Morales?

My point was that the only environment in which truth is the only concern is one in which profit is of no concern.

As with all things nothing can be analyzed as a black and white, which is exactly what you started to do in the post above insinuating that my point had anything to do with ethics or morality, or even in saying that the answer was going away from capitalism, none of those things I said.

Does my point not resonate? Look at the marketing flood for herbal remedies, and years after we start to get these reports of toxicity, or health problems arising from misguided understanding of supplements, and micro nutrients.

When your only source for information about a product is from the unrestricted marketing from that very company . . . . who's only real goal is profit . . . .

i will son be retiring to the philippines Jess i may do it there, but it's a great idea - i am a musician so it fits and they will need some of this knowledge there also - though fortunately many still do these things seeing its a poor country - there is no laws saying you cant raise crops or food on your property there s most do to some extent accept for the bigger cities which is not as good though a myriad of food stands are there with fresh foods of all kinds. thanks for that though - maybe MM or others will take up the banner on this who plan on remaining here. -

Ok, then tell me what you meant by capitalism? Are you now defining capitalism as “having profit as the first priority”? If so, then you’re better off using the word “greed”. It already has that definition and you don’t have to go to the trouble of redefining a different word.

All of your examples (that I could see) were about greed. Not capitalism.

I did. And I did so because, unlike capitalism, which is not the issue and has nothing to do with morals, greed is the issue, and is completely based on morals.

Then your only source for information about a product is from the unrestricted marketing from that very company whose only real goal is profit.

So what’s your point?

What I’m hearing from the examples is “people are profiting by lying”.

What is that if not a moral point?

It’s certainly not a scientific one.
Maybe it’s a legal one?
Or an educational one?
Or a financial one?

This statement deserves a post all it's own.

I will point out that in a statement like that, you must consider "profit" to be just as abstract as "truth". Otherwise you're comparing apples to oranges.

So with that equality stipulated, I submit that there never has been and there never will be, in the whole history of man, an environment where profit is of no concern.

I completely agree, nor do I believe there ever will be.
Our companies are built to be greedy, its all about the interests of your stock holders, which is what?

Capitalism is greedy, lets not try to flower it up, its about wants and needs, but just like a conversation we had before want covers it all, need is a subset of want.

I am Pointing at a problem, not a solution. I wont pretend I have answers.

Billy,

Are you in favor of putting your faith in modern prescription drugs then over natural remedies? How do you know that the drug business is not just getting greedy too?

jb

Everything that goes in gets researched first so . . . .

so name a drug and a comparative supposedly natural remedy, and I can tell you which one id go with for the given ailment. . . .


_______

Sky. Here is my example.

"Given the HUGE amount of molecules on the market, and the fact that money is being made regardless of benefit . . . the drug companies do not have much incentive to do thorough research, but maybe now that they are actually being sued . . . maybe it will get better. "

This was to point out that profit does not equal benefit to the end user which was my point about capitalism, just becuase you have a product does not mean its the best thing for you. My other point was that, maybe now that the companies are being sued more often they will have a financial incentive to do better research and tighter more accurate marketing, (which was previously not in the financial interests)

Herbal supplements should be approved by the FDA, but they know that this will be a **** storm and are trying to drag there feet. (the FDA)

You right to bring up ethics, but you really seem to be trying to pull apart my reasoning and motives instead of talking about this topic . . . perhaps that was just my take on that last posts . . .

Billy,
So do you believe the FDA is uncorrupted? Do you really place your faith in the FDA in this time of massive drug companies pushing to name every little human ailment so they can create and prescribe a drug for it?

For the most part, I will always try very natural remedies before running to a doctor for a drug with possible side effects. I am just trying to find out if you are placing your faith in the drug industry and the FDA first or if you look to natural remedies first in general.

But if you want to be specific:

Lets start with "irritable bowel syndrome. Would you take the drug or try to improve your diet and eat more fiber?


Most IBS patients are initially prescribed an anti-spasmodic drug upon diagnosis, though you may have received a low-dose antidepressant or anti-diarrheal instead, or even one of the newest (and thus potentially riskiest) Irritable Bowel Syndrome drugs, Zelnorm or Lotronex.


Some natural remedies:
http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/digestiveproblems/a/IBS.htm

Billy, if you're really that interested in comparing something I will email what what I have personally tried. I don't feel comfortable posting all my personal medical information here.

However, I don't know that it would do much good as I am only going to be able to give you my personal experience with these things. I obviously cannot prove to you that they worked. So, it probably doesn't matter.

aw c'mon BB - whats a little horse, weed, morphine, cocaine, meth, upers/downers among freinds - huh?

I don't know bout that meth crap but the rest sounds like it might help me a litkasahd.... oopskk ndn oopsy.. I spilled the bo_ _ g! I have to get back to ya in a minute...damn that sh_t stinks!

No but any institution that keeps records is a start. We have to know where we have been to know where we are going. Tech has moved fast, and a sea of choas with no logging is a bad place to try to make things better.



No, I dont need your personal medical information, dont really want to go there, I was thinking in terms like what JB posted, but didn't complete >>>(One thing tho, JB please list what you would use as far as herbal or natural remedies for this plz)

Irritable bowel syndrome huh JB lol! Thats a great example, but Im afraid I know nothing about irritable bowel syndrome, so I will have to get back to you lol, I will look into what we know as if I had it, and where serious about getting treated.

(Made my night tho really! )

Well the idiots probably have letters for it now: ( I.B.S. )

Anyway its basically a poor digestion system that they labeled so that they could create a drug for it and make a bundle of money selling the drug. (That is what they do.)

(You can't create and prescribe a drug until you have identified, named and described a disease it is used for. That is probably a rule from the FDA.)

What would I do? Pay attention to what I am eating. (Over ripe fruit can be a cause)

Or maybe do a colon cleanse with some herbs and fiber. Make sure I get enough fiber. I might also kill parasites with wormwood and black walnut hull tincture. There are many very simple solutions to this problem without taking a drug.

My point is that there is a major campaign going on by drug companies to name every little symptom of an unhealthy lifestyle and turn it into some kind of "disease" that needs a drug to treat it.

---SO THEY CAN SELL THEIR DRUGS!------

The natural cures are a lot of times common sense. But this new generation does not know the difference. The drug companies create these diseases on purpose. They aren't diseases at all, they are just symptoms of some lifestyle that can be easily corrected.

I am not talking about things like cancer etc. (Even though I suspect that is also a symptom of extreme parasite infestation combined with stressful living.)

Its getting really ridiculous all these new created diseases and new drugs with new ridiculous side effects.

Restless leg syndrome = poor blood circulation

The drug to treat this warns that a side effect is the urge to gamble.

That's nuts.

That's so funny I want to try the drug just to see if I have the urge to run to Las Vegas and play craps.

Then I can blame my behavior on my medication.

JB

32:1.1 The preuniverse manipulations of space-force and the primordial energies are the work of the Paradise Master Force Organizers; but in the superuniverse domains, when emergent energy becomes responsive to local or linear gravity, they retire in favor of the power directors of the superuniverse concerned.

32:1.2 These power directors function alone in the prematerial and postforce phases of a local universe creation. There is no opportunity for a Creator Son to begin universe organization until the power directors have effected the mobilization of the space-energies sufficiently to provide a material foundation—literal suns and material spheres—for the emerging universe.

32:1.3 The local universes are all approximately of the same energy potential, though they differ greatly in physical dimensions and may vary in visible-matter content from time to time. The power charge and potential-matter endowment of a local universe are determined by the manipulations of the power directors and their predecessors as well as by the Creator Son's activities and by the endowment of the inherent physical control possessed by his creative associate.

32:1.4 The energy charge of a local universe is approximately one one-hundred-thousandth of the force endowment of its superuniverse. In the case of Nebadon, your local universe, the mass materialization is a trifle less. Physically speaking, Nebadon possesses all of the physical endowment of energy and matter that may be found in any of the Orvonton local creations. The only physical limitation upon the developmental expansion of the Nebadon universe consists in the quantitative charge of space-energy held captive by the gravity control of the associated powers and personalities of the combined universe mechanism.

32:1.5 When energy-matter has attained a certain stage in mass materialization, a Paradise Creator Son appears upon the scene, accompanied by a Creative Daughter of the Infinite Spirit. Simultaneously with the arrival of the Creator Son, work is begun upon the architectural sphere which is to become the headquarters world of the projected local universe. For long ages such a local creation evolves, suns become stabilized, planets form and swing into their orbits, while the work of creating the architectural worlds which are to serve as constellation headquarters and system capitals continues.

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/index.html