I am a multi-level marketing distributor specializing in bewilderment .... I can sell you bewilderment at retail but if you'd like to pay a distributor fee then you can purchase bewilderment at wholesale yourself...

and the compensation plan is amazing ... let me just have 2 hours of you time and I can show you how you can share the gift of bewilderment with others and make a fortune in the process ...

and be-wilder-meant ... is a subsidiary of the same company ...

Do you take credit cards?

your married so i wont take you up on your offer - though I agree 2 hrs with you would definitely bewilder me -

subsi -dairy? is that an underwater cow farming endeavor??

I tend to prefer the currencies of wonder, joy, inspiration and love ... they go in and out of the bank in the same day so there is no worry of deficit later ...

Ido, Ido, Ido, - just mail them to me and i will max them out in no time!!!!!!!!!

oh no I didn't see that coming ...



yeah I'm pretty wrapped up with that creative one ... completely actually ...

Just curious if it has dawned on anyone out there if we quit consuming so much energy running around doing and buying things we don't need we will no longer have an energy crisis to try to solve. We have an abundance of energy enough to shelter and feed every living person on the planet. The problem lies in where people run around doing all sorts of extra crap they don't really need to do.

That is one of many good reasons to stop running around and doing/buying crap.

very true ... and one reason I have been downsizing my crap for awhile now ... we really 'need' very little ... and yes, there is enough for everyone on the planet ...

Simplifying and downsizing are good stress relievers as well.

of course i have MM, as i'm sure many others close to my age who have lived a simpler life have also. the prob is this, we have allowed the government and big business and technology to dominate our lives[as im sure you well know] and like sheep have followed after or persued these things, we have left the city/towns and have moved further from one another and those stores that provide us with our needs and stopped raising our own foods and necessities and most don't even know how to any more, most think milk comes from a store not a cow.

we have lost our ability to a very large degree to live on our own without all the trappings. I truly feel for the younger generations who are doomed to keep this type of civilization up and find themselves unable to someday cope with having to fend for themselves if all of these "conviences" dissappear.

bot this is a topic for another post not here, so i will quitely stop now.

tRuth is found by ommitting the "T" -

Tribo, I too feel sorrow fro the younger generation. I wish there was some way of getting the money mongers to understand what they have done and be willing to step up to the plate with their vast amounts of wealth to turn things around. There might be a solution if enough people would just absolutly refuse to surport these self indulgent yeahoos buy not purchising bigger better faster crap evrytime they get a few bucks saved up, and start buying land that is farmable and using it accordingly. A person really can use the bathroom out in the wilderness if they want to.

I think there are several things that help to confuse this topic, and tend to make it seem as if the skeptics hold a black and white stance on these issues as a whole, which I think is not accurate at least in regard to this skeptic.

First thing I want to state is that science is not the problem with our institution of medicine here in the states and more broadly the entire planet, it is capitalism.

The first thing to be analyzed is profit margins, not benefit, not the health of the patient, and not even the science.

So just because it is accredited does not mean it is scientifically backed. (Chiropractic "medicine" is one example)

One other statement I would like to make because this topic has many many variables is to place into perspective the complexity of the well being and health of a living system.

Our brains where never designed to manage hundreds of thousands of variables consciously, no less the millions of variables that are involved with the living systems that we try to keep working properly with incomplete knowledge, this means doctors may be the best educated and in the best place to make decisions, but its still just educated guess work at best. (I don't trust them either, and if you do you are a fool, the big problem is that the biggest reason most doctors go into medicine is the money . . . dam capitalism! The system works fine except when you are too apathetic to be your own health representative, or are not skeptical enough to empower your research, I am not even going to get into the bureaucracy part of it)

As far as energy is concerned there is a reason why scientist have strict definitions of energy, its because this is something we know extremely well.

Thermodynamics and energy transfer are extremely well known. If anyone is going to toss around the word energy they better be prepared with math to back it up, otherwise use tribo's word emmergy, LOVE IT TRIBO, then you dont have to back up anything.

The big deal with anything that is touted as beneficial is that the human organism is extremely complex.

Let me put this into perspective. Computers are not nearly as complex as the human organism, but this effect can still take place.

Lets say you are up late working on your taxes, but get bored are nearly finished so decide to install a new digital art program you just want play around on it for a few minutes, you are tired and decide to go to bed after only fiddling with the art program for a few minutes.

The next day you wake up and you get back on your computer, but now need to finish your taxes. You go to launch your tax program and it loads but your work is all gone, it is giving a Data base error. . . . . DOH taxes are due and this dam POS wont work.

You think well, I cant see any relationship between the tax program and the art program, but that was the last thing I installed maybe removing that will fix this.

So you uninstall the art program, then try to load up the tax program, and still it does not work. Now you are really mad because it appears that this crappy art program has ruined your tax software, so you uninstall the tax software and reinstall it, and not it works, but you have lost all your progress with your taxes, ARRGGH!

So for the rest of your life you believe that uninstalling the art program and reinstalling the tax program fixed it, but will not be installing that art program again, because you have learned your lesson, but what you do not realize is that when you where sleepy you had the tax program running forgot to close and save your progress and shut off your computer while it was in the middle of a write request in the data base, and when the computer got shut off it caused data base corruption, and had nothing to do with the Art Program.

Nothing at all wrong with the art program, and your initial instincts that they should not have conflicted where true.

If you had instead only cared why this occurred, and did not need to get your taxes done, then you could have spent more time on this issue, and discovered at least that the art program had nothing to do with it even if you never discovered your mistake. BUT just like everything in life, you only cared that it worked once you reinstalled it, and you had to move on instead of spending more time analyzing the issue.

This is the same with herbal medicine, if you feel better, whether it was the herbs or not, that is the only conscious thing you remember doing, and the only variable that presented itself in the outcome of your feeling better.

This does not make it true that the herbal remedy had anything what so ever to do with you feeling better, or if it did it does not explain why. It could be just a minor pain reliever and in which case makes you feel better, but does not fix the problem, but you may find out that what they use to package this herbal remedy is very hard on your kidneys, much harder then aspirin . . . so you have got a benefit but not one without negatives that could not have been achieved with out the negative using a standard medicine like aspirin.

To really know we would need to do a comprehensive study at a molecular level, which is hard work and very time consuming and very expensive and as it was stated before, it would have to be done with a large sample of human physiologies to ensure consistent effects across different people.

Given the HUGE amount of molecules on the market, and the fact that money is being made regardless of benefit . . . the drug companies do not have much incentive to do thorough research, but maybe now that they are actually being sued . . . maybe it will get better.


Cant blame science for any of this however.

First thing I want to state is that science is not the problem with our institution of medicine here in the states and more broadly the entire planet, it is capitalism.


That said it all in Black and White, Thanks BB

It's gotten so bad MM, that even most towns will no longer alow you to grow food in your own back yard anymore like where i'm at [farm country!!] and few no how to milk a cow or can there vegtables, or how to sew or many times even cook [things from scratch] imagine bringing home in todays world, a whole chiken or pig or cow and asking someont to butcher it and prepare it and preserve the rest?? who knows how in todays USA especially. we no longer have a willingness to learn these things and will be evermore dependant on the government and industry for such in the future. i feel it's almost to late to wake this country up - obama or not - we have dug our own grave and have no one really to blame but ourselves, we allowed others to rule over us and make decisions that has brought us to this point instead of speaking up as "we the people" to put a stop to the greed and power hungry politicians and mercantile industralist. god help the children of the future.

tribo, that's terrible!!!!


I am so grateful to be living in wilderness australia...

We suppliment our groceries with fresh veges, herbs and eggs, from our backyard...all organic, all heirloom seeds....

we barter food when in excess with others... we can walk down the street and pick fruit in the height of summer...(mangoes, avocados, bananas, coconuts) we have an abundance of fresh fish and shell fish at the front door..(the Coral sea), for those who are that way inclined...


our water is supplimented by rainwater tanks, our water heated by the sun, our electricity supplimented by solar panels...


I could not live where some corporate greed decided how I must live..

If things keep going in the same direction, we won't have to worry about anything before too long. None of us will be left alive! We all know (or should) the real reason the DOJ adjusts the way they evaluate crime statistics. It is so eventually our government will be able to sell the "good little sheep" on the idea that we should not have the right to keep guns. The think tanks have already devised a PRS to get it done. One of the biggies is this idea of "state felonies". This is a statute that give each state the right to make up its own rule for what a felony is. Which in turn give the Feds the right to stip gun ownership rights away from people for traffic violitions and less. If it sounds like some kind of conspiracy, THATS BECAUSE IT IS ! Make no mistake, there is nothing the people who actually call the shots in this world would like more than to see some type of problem come up, where the only resolution would be to ban all guns of private ownership to produce the desired solution! This is exactly what happened it the middle east many years ago and now look at the region. There have got to be more checks and balances than just a voting booth!

In my example above, a skeptical scientist would have gone and learned the language of the data base, referenced the error, ran a fix utility then purged out the bad data, re-indexed the data base, and restored it where you left off your last saved entry, it may have taken longer then starting over with your taxes, but now you would know! . . . and the next time you may even avoid doing it all together, because you pieced back together what caused it, net gain!

Knowledge is power!


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Another problem with this scenario is a medical situation is that many times we have learned our lesson, but sadly at the cost of a life. Take that lesson and don't share it with every other doctor, and you have a lot of people dieing to teach doctors what to do in a single very specific case.