ahh - the preterist also christians beleive armegeddon took place in AD 70 and also the rapture, not all believers hold to this future coming of christ, thats where i beleive the evangelicals are wrong. not a contradiction on my part, just a look at another held beliefs within the christian community. google preterist.com to see this held view.

"Tribo" and you show me where God let all the fallen angels back into Heaven

whether God "killed" "unmade" or made them flip burgers at McDonalds ..see it as you may ..my point was that they were no longer in Heaven and needed to be replaced for a possible War

"Tribo" we are not talking about preterist christians we'll talking about those good old fashion American Christians that believe armageddon is taking place after the Cubs win the world series so come on don't try to slip out answering the question and send me to some "google cut and paste" site ....

which is the accurate one ..."Josephus's Account" or "The Revelation Prophecy"

?? why would they need to be replaced? only 1/3 of them were kicked out? that leaves 2/3rds to fight for god? are you saying this almighy god [who really shouldn't need angels to do his fighting for in the first place] need's more than a 2 to 1 ratio to win over his created fallen angels?

personally - i beleive josephus's account, he had no reason to lie anymore than john did.

"Tribo" 2/3 of the angels are going to be no match against the billions of Christians on their way to Heaven ...and with Jesus leading them mean they are going to pull out a can of whoop ass on God and his forces ...

"Tribo" ...so are you saying that you believe that armageddon already took place

I'm still curios where this idea that God is going to fight Jesus comes from. There is a passage about the powers of heaven being shaken. But that took place between the crucifiction and the resurection. It was Christ defeating satan, not God fighting his half self (Jesus).

He doesn't. We are only here because of Satan's rebellion and the angels that went with him.

satan was already on the scene when Adam and Eve came to be.

They were just spoke or thought into existance yet as spirits they have no need for food or water or death yet.

We are a planned design. A gift to all of us to grow and learn having freewill just as the Angels have.

Was freewill created?

That is our choice to learn and decide whether we are going to be good or inherite the fallen Angels end.

We are in a learning phase. To learn for ourselves the consiquinces of sin not listening.

It must be hard for Yahweh to watch as we do this.

Just as it is hard for us when we tell our 3 y o do not touch..HOT..

Yet he does not listen and touches for himself and for not listening endures severe pain and we as parents endure that pain also.

But we know it is part of learning. He will not do that again.

We are in preparation for the day when satan and his demons are cast into the lake of fire forever and sin is known no more as we have listened and know better than to rebel against our father.

The angels see they were spirit they knew what gift they had but satan decided it was not enough.


So this time Yahweh said let us make man in our image and learn through the physical world to be complete in the spiritual world.

Then after Yahshua took on the sins of the world he opened up the Breathe of Yahweh which began man but this time as the Breath of a spiritual life coming on us as the wind putting the everlasting fire of Yahweh in us and speaking his spiritual words though that tongue of fire that came upon us.

Speaking into creation a new Temple made without hads more glorious than anything he has ever spoken into being.

US.. You and ME..

All we have to do is believe it and accept it obeying from the heart as we Love Yahweh with all our Heart and our fellow man as our self.

Spoken not created. Thought into existance not created.

We are the children of the everlasting Light that no Darkness can put out.

Blessings of Shalom...Miles

"MartyMark" ...the question should be if God is ominpotent there shouldn't have been a war in Heaven in the first place

God demand absolute laws and all Jesus preach is Love placing both in total conflict which means the holy spirit can not take sides or it's power can be tapped into equally by both Gods since that will neutralize the powers of both Gods it will become a war between the angels and the Christians

the angel through-out history may have killed for God but will be no match for the military warfare and brutality the christians have learned while they were in flesh

according to those statistics ..Jesus and his christian soldiers will win hands down ...unless God hire Satan and his legion

"Milesoftheusa" ...everything you referred to in your post is what happened after creation ..the question apply to Yahweh's actions before creation..which means why did Yahweh have a "need" to create anything ..

funch, where are you getting your info from? where does it say that christians are going to battle angels in the last days? Armegeddon as you call it? show me please

Who said God demands absolute laws? it was a man, not God in flesh (Jesus), A mere mortal man. The first record there is of God in flesh so that there would be no disputing God's desires was the appearance of Christ. And yet we still are looking for a savior or something. News flash, he was here teaching us what we should and should not be doing about two thousand years ago. His message is still being taught by a few people, in that respect he is still here in spirit. Some will accept his way of teaching and some will not. I pity the people that will suffer at the hands of those who will not!

i'm saying there will be no armegeddon or rapture as it is taought yes, that took place on those whom it was meant to befall[the jews] back in AD 70 - if there is a final return it will be fore jesus to set up an earthly reign, not to do battle with angels, that has already happened.

As far as the evang and fundies go - their scenario is a rapture then jesus destroys the earth and makes a new one and then all the saved people come and regn with christ on earth - they dont go to heaven, for at least a thousand yrs [in my opninon they never go to heaven.]

either way i know nothing of a battle between believers and demons/ fallen angels.

turn off all form of communication except the ability to talk to only 2 other people, no magazines newspapers TV's radios steroes nothing and have the other 2 people do the same. then maybe ............

He always was.and is and will be. no beginning no end. Creation the forces of the universe are in harmony with him and do as he even thinks it. creation of something as is spoke of in Gen. is for our minds to try and understand. he has a plan for us and creation is part of it as we create to keep having generations of offspring

"Tribo" the battle between Christians and angels won't be during armageddon it will be on Judgement day in Heaven

as you see in the threads Christians are even denying that The Old Testament is the word of God ..some are even saying the bible is metaphoric .....they will not follow God laws but will follow Jesus and it will most likely lead to War

"MartyMark" you already showed how Jesus teachings started off as deception by first trying to convince followers of Yahweh that he was not there to change any of Yahweh laws

Jesus and God is supposely all-knowing and had an eternality to could up with a way to bring truth to the people without askewing the truth ...

but it is not The Old Testament or the New Testament that is calling Jesus a liar ...it is those that are trying to deny that the Old Testament as being the word of God

Ya know, at this moment I am not absolutely positive about much except one thing. At some moment in the future, as I understand what "time" to be right now. If my plans work out, I will know exactly why God did any thing he did. I will simply ask him/her/?...!

"Tribo" even in your senerio of Josephus's account and the fundalmentalists fire and brimestone is yet another example of the conflict between The Old and New Testament and their followers