I would probably do nothing since I never existed.

If I may say this without actually insulting (something I do my best to avoid).

What is faith??

Is faith believing in what you know to be true??

Is it depending on your experience because "God" has "proved it to you"???

Is it being unchangeable, unmovable, unimaginative in the sense that you will not consider the possibility of anything else..........considering that you may be wrong???

See, because I thought faith was trusting.....trusting in what you do not have any proof of?? If "God" has proved anything to you, that proof is not faith.....it is fact to you. Faith is what goes beyond the facts. Faith is what you have when you have NO facts. Faith is what you have when you have NOTHING to go on.

Faith is believing that if you are wrong.........everything will work out as it should anyways. Faith is admitting that you may not know the answers........that the answers may be unknowable to you at this time...............BUT

Faith is what you have left........when all the "facts" all the "rituals" all the "titles" all the "names" are taken away.........

Faith isn't something someone else can give (including some other "God") but something that is in every person.......something that religions try to have a corner on.......but really can't because every human being has it.

If you have "proof" or a "formula" that you follow.......it isn't faith.



So, to answer ur question, People who are unable to even consider/contemplate that they may be wrong........are not exercising their faith. Notice I said "not exercising" it, as they have it........they just simply have their "proof" and "experiences" confused with what true faith is.......they are afraid of losing something that can't be lost.

Amen sister!!

Not trying to duck the question here, but I can't answer it. What's underneath the floor? Foundation? Quicksand? Vacuum? A Black Hole?

In other words, assuming that what I believe is false, then I'd have to know what the truth is in order to decide how I would react to it.

Jess......."why do we do what we do in life, if we take away all the thoughts, beliefs, understandings, and were just us?
__________________________________________

one word plain and simple.....FEAR

fear is what has created the inspiration of this empire of jilted balance we call mankind, the entire civilization......
___________________________________________


Jess......."Nothing to hide behind...would we be basically the same?

no.....if fear was removed, at first there would be unruly behaviour, rioting in the streets of immense proportions, coming from a total abandonment of "good as followed because of fear of reaction or consequnece", as this is the mindframe perpetuated as "good" to think thru by the most of the institutions and machines of all learning.......

soon all would come to settle down, after many were killed off from rioting, not much different than many of the sci-fi movies made, as each and all would soon come to realize they really didn't want what the mind insisted they did, and refrained from to "be good", and "true reality" would come to take over, in time, after the pain from committing many things once refrained from, and true reality could be "felt" instead of "envisioned".......

certainally seems why "indulgence" is seen by "one fragment" of mankind as truth as the only way to achieve real balance of self, and therefore balance of all......

there is no doubt wisdom in it......

however, it cannot contain ALL wisdom since it disregard it's own counterpart abstinance as ignorance, lol......

any unbalanced notion always leave out it's opposite......

wonder why the more "love" others is pumped out, the more "hate" is created.....

preach hate and love as equals, and the results would be ****ing amazing, as nothing can truly have "hate" after this is really embraced as a true need, just as embracing "love" AS THE ONLY GUIDE soon come to disallow it to be even felt, lol

this "whole scenario" created from the removal of fear would only come to happen because there is no teaching of truly how to "decide" who and what one is, using the minds natural ability to truly "see in advance", IF what one actually wishes as fantasy, is actually what is wanted, as believing in much as "evil" MOST disallow this, and any complete processing of all thoughts for proper self decision not even possible......

there is not one human that is not doing all one wishes, but "how this is true" eludes the mind that look unknowingly thru fear, coming MOST from not wishing to believe oneself is a "fearful" person, lol......

in time, people would come to be their true self, with no more actions coming from "hiding" that come from FEAR of.....

karma coming back around.....

fear of facing all problems, as they are taught to be all as "failures"......

fear of "do unto others as you would have done unto you".......

fear of death and afterlife......

fear of "lack of time" for fun or pleasure.....

fear of not having all wished......

fear of damnation by some particular action....

fear of not loving.....

fear of not being kind.....

fear of not sharing....

fear of being rude.....

fear of what others will think......

fear of "negative" words.......

fear of not being loved.....

fear of being an idiot.....

fear of being stupid.......

how the hell can there be such root of fear, and there not be a "greater reason" as to WHY, if it is a common thread thruout an entire populous.....

it does seem by all logic a total civilization has come to make all decisions thru a root of fear MOST, even now all military defenses based on this, even fear of "terrorism" creating a "hotter breading ground for fear" which create MORE terrorism, and civil unrest....

the whole thing reeks to the heavens of fear....

a phenomenon that cannot be overlooked as having greater impact of extreme significance, that would HAVE to be addressed to lead to greater understanding for change......

to truly follow the path of logic of all thoughts and believed, which create belief, that guide, and what MOTIVE THEY "HAVE TO CREATE", show indeed the root of inspiration, and tell in advance what it will create, as "root motive" always in turn control ALL ACTIONS....

fear is even denied for the fear of admission, lol.....

as if this is some disease to admit having, but indeed, it is the inherant nature of man, that canont be undone or control taken back unless there is first recognition......

"unnoticed" and not called out with verbal recognition allow it to consume, allowing it to grow to the skies unchecked, lol....

all motivation of all beings coming from "fear motivation".......

it can be traced even back to birth in all things......

this one many will seeth over, as such "accusations" are not allowed in a fearful society, lol........

seems as implausible, but none the less, how can it not be seen as totally taking over and leading civilization as some invisible giant hand.......

it is "leading to death thinking" and lead to "death of emotional and mental faculties", and a total abandonment of common sense and pure whole logic, that does not need fear as the root motivator for actions......

every last iota of all such fears are bound to grow if there is "self preservation" built in to any human, and all know this is the case, with all things that live.......

this certainally overlay all consciousness, and produce motivation to "seek for self" as the dominant motivation, which no doubt seems to have produced all mentioned so far, lol........

it is ****ing rediculous the unsanity of not recognizing it and admitting it, as fear as the DOMINANT motivator has no ability to create anything but misery and pain and eventual death for an entire population, lol.....

and the saddest thing of all......total truth never need perform any action by some great physical effort to undo, which is the essence of belief pumped into all the talking heads by all environment, lol.....

seems it runs forth as rivers from all the machines churning out data.....

what the hell is propaganda?

FEAR PERPETUATED........to use to control behaviour, always leading anything in history to total devastation, as of course fear must be torn down by the machine, by teaching, or it RULES......

the saddest thing of all, truth of anything just admitted and duly recognized as "truth" make the perfect pure essence of any "being" take over even subconsciously, and all potential as perfect creations comes forth, to take over and control as without any effort except to freely admit, which is really not that hard, UNLESS IT HAS BEEN SPELLED OUT DAILY HOW EVIL MANY THINGS ARE, BY THE TELLING MOST OF "THE EVIL ****", lol.......

the effort to admit all things truly felt, is far, far, far less that the effort needed to fix the problems that come from not doing it, lol.....

what is "wished to be" as a dishonest guide by CONSTANT notions preached from all podiums as "what is good", lead to total natural hiding and dishonesty of self, leading to total dishonesty and then hiding of a entire civilization, inspired more each day from pumping our more and more fear propaganda....

why is it not pumped from every machine the opposite of fear, which, since it has been mostly fear, would need to occur to bring back into balance all thinking, which is totally creating "ALL" environment......

since we have all our great advancments and wisdom, why are we not chrning out what will truly help us all, as one and all.......

the understanding that embracing any one thing in society as "bad" has to create what will pit people one against the other, creating what else, but soon demise for all.....

even self demise is created for the data machines that churn out all, based most on what will create a need for themselves, to perpetuate their own survival, lol........

much of what is "needed" is simply because of what is being pumped out, such as the extensive law and order systems, even controlling what is allowed to be spoken, lol.......

truth can guide the same as "with an invisible hand", as fear does by default anyways, but truth as many times greater potential than fear, and has no potential to produce anything but complete and total success......

ok......i'll shut up, lol

just thoughts.....peace

This may be a "half empty, half full" point, but I believe that the "fear of" is only half of it. The complementary other half is "desire for" all the happy and beautiful and harmonious things.

words that "reek" of all greater wisdom and essence of sight of greater truth, that lead to TOTAL PERCEPTION OF ALL THINGS..........

this is a heart that has tunneled back thru the mind, into the depths of the heart, where all wisdom is hidden......

if i may say so, this is the path to the fountain of youth miss JB.....

if i may say so, this women speak the path to all you so LONG AND WISH to know mr. TRIBO.....

mr. abra as the good scientist will recognize it.......

voil will "smell" the wisdom from afar....

mr. smiless "feels it" but can't see it just yet.....

SL will gravitate to more courage from it....

this is the essence of the path of logic that lead to all truth that all beings seek and where true happiness is NEVER ENDING.....

truth of this tree will change the next generation that comes even now to bring peace to all....

this is the essence of all truth that is HIDDEN in all things, when none is excluded as BAD......

speak it out girl, as the more it is spoken, the more it comes alive, and flows as a river, that soon come to all bliss in an instant.....

ok, sorry, thats a lot of presure to put on ya, but you are a warrioress of truth that can handle it, as all strength ONLY come from admission of all weakness........

peace

so true indeed!!!

this is duly recognized, however it seems the FEAR is spelled out in greater essence, for the reason that it is seems to be most overlooked, and the conscious seeing that FEAR is a root of much "thought definition" and therrfore actions is what is MOST difficult to to be seen.....

what cannot see and speak out the great and harmonious things wished and sought, lol....

this seems to be preached from every podium, but this indeed is as making the mind BY DEFAULT to focus on "white only", WHICH KEEP FROM SEEING WHAT CAUSE WHAT IS NOT LIKED, and if this has been done, even over an entire liftime, AS PERPETUATED FROM ALL EVVIRONMENT, then to focus the root that cause that MOST cause all not "liked" seems the the only thing that can revert the perception back to "balance".....

perhaps i should have stated that the only way fear can be dispelled is to see it, then admit it, then later one comes to see the "good" thing it created, but this is as a moot point until such time.....

to NOT build towers of defense totally based around fear is the jist of it, lol....

things written speak MOST from the essence of what is most ignored, to bring it more clearly into conscious sight.......

if i am a perpetual liar, even as a patholgical liar, soon saying and embellishing all things to all peoples, what will be NEEDED to revert me back to a honest person?

a total embracing and pronounment from my OWN MOUTH, I AM A LIAR!!!

I LIE DAILY......

THEN SPELLED OUT BY MY GOOD FRIEND BESIDE ME HOW IT IS STEALING FROM ME, AND CERTAINALLY, IF I HAVE COME TO BE PAINED FROM LVING AS A LIAR, THEN I MIGHT HEAR, LOL......

if there is good reason shown to me of ALL THINGS THINGS THAT LYING WILL MAKE BEFALL ME, NOT AS "NEGATIVE" ALONE AS LYING IS A "SIN", BUT RATHER WHAT IT "WILL CREATE", AND STEAL FROM ME "MYSELF", THEN IS NOT THIS THE ONLY TRUE BALANCED MOTIVATION?

I HATE BEING A LIAR, AND IT IS DESTROYING ALL GOODS THINGS, EVEN MOST SEPERATING MYSELF FROM THE ONES THAT I LOVE SEEMS AS WHAT CREATE A DESIRE TO LOOK INTO SELF AND ADMIT ANY TRUTH, LOL....

WOULD I NOT HAVE TO SAY AND ACKNOWLEDGE THIS TO EVER BECOME AS REHABILITATED BACK TO HONESTY.....

is the way of making FEAR as the root motivator go away any different?

caps are the emphasis of the LIAR need to feel to be no longer a liar, and not "yelling" at you, lol......

just ideas........

peace

Ok, so let me actually try and answer after thinking about it for a while...

If the pure materialist view is correct, then I'd probably put more effort into living as long as possible and being more self-centered in general.

Same thing for Buddhism.

If the Christian view is correct, no change at all, as I was saved as a youngster so I've got that one covered.

If the pantheistic view is correct, then I might become a little more evil just so as to avoid losing my individuality and being absorbed into the great all.

Whoever it is that believes in the palace with hot and cold running virgins sounds cool. I might just commit suicide for that one.

My pantheistic picture does not allow anyone to loose their individuality, some others pantheists may think that way, but I don't.

Didn't make much sense to me either. So I may have just misunderstood.

I took out the last part because it was a very wrong assumption...it should be because FAITH proves itself. As noticed, I highlighted the imperative in your statement.

Another false assumption is saying faith is something not given by God. Also faith is something that God gives us all because, as God's word says, we are all BORN WITH a measure of faith.

I have no other statement other to say that some here have found the truth & others are still seeking. Therein lies the difference. Keep looking, God will find you. It's my prayer that you all come to the full knowledge of the truth.

I have never gone around claiming to be a pantheist. I have found that when I mention that I think we are all connected to each other people have informed me that I am a pantheist.

In fact, I did not even know what they were talking about, and I am not sure how all pantheists believe. I certainly don't expect to surrender my individuality to the giant soup of consciousness to be consumed and defecated into that humongous quantum toilet in the next reality.

After reading about the basic idea of solipsism I find myself thinking in that direction quite often.

Is everything we perceive as "Real" nothing more than an illusion? A dream? A holographic projection of a mind?

I also feel that the only thing I know for certain is that I exist. ...and I can't be sure about you or anything else. That smacks of solipsism.

JB

Been there quite a bit myself.

It seems to me that solipsism is what you're left with when you remove ALL faith.

My own "life is a game" theory postulates multiple players. Which means that there must be some way for the individual players to interact. My conclusion was to view the physical universe as a medium that could be affected by any of the players. That medium is a "unit" in that everything in it is connected to everything else by the laws of physics, etc. So, for example, you can poke an atom "here", and, through those connections, cause somthing to happen to another atom "over there". But since there are other players, someone else may poke another atom which, through the connections, may alter the "cause-effect chain" that you originally intended. Kinda like "interference".

But that entire system is based on at least one article of "faith" - that I am not the only player.

I dont worry about such things, when I die it will be just like before I was born...so why worry?

what if it's the other way around, would you still be laughing.

as for me, I'd be p!ssed

They were not any more of an assumption than what you have claimed.........you are no more qualified to know what is truth than I am..........but you seem to think you are. And I am the one who has pride???

Anyhoo, you can not "prove" your statements to me.

As I have said many times in this forum, and I don't have many posts, the Bible is not "God's Word" imo so I do not/can not/will not use it as fact or "proof" as you choose to.

I'm not stupid, unspiritual, uneducated in the biblical sense, or lacking God simply because it doesn't fit your "program".

I do not claim that your personal God is not God to you, I simply say he is not mine.........but yet you try to push him on me???

Anyhoo...............

You, and the rest like you are very good at.........proving my main points.

Thank you!

yummy.

lots of if's .

if a frog had wings, he wouldn't scrub his little butt, now wouldee?

I am happy right where i am in my life, knowing what i know.

i won't change a thing.

But, i do understand the thrill of throwing off conventional thought.

kinda freeing, isn't it?

seeking god?

what is this?

is this not spoken in this context the very deception that has seperated ALL LOVE FROM MANKIND?

to seek a "face of god", or "knowing of god" or "truth of god" for what purpose?

WHAT PURPOSE DOES ONE SEEK?

WHY DO YOU SEEK GOD?

IS IT NOT FOR "YOU" TO "FEEL BETTER", CHASING A "FEELING" of self betterment of ONE MOST, and how can this not lead to NO PEACE FOR ALL IF CHASED......

if one seek "god" for anything for "self satisfaction" reasons, THIS MOTIVE has no choice to lead to anything but believing only interpretations which serve SELF SINGULAR PURPOSE MOST, which such things make "OTHERS OF LESS VALUE THAN SELF", so how could such things lead to peace even for all around oneself, let alone peace in the world..........

HOW CAN SEEKING "GOD" BE ANYTHING OTHER THAN SEEKING UNDERSTANDING WITH ONE'S OWN FAMILY, FRIENDS, AND NEIGHBORS?

JB already does this much more than all the "preachers of professed biblical truth, of interpretations of all things believed as truth as aquired from greed".......

GREED?

how is not this greed even in the worst sense, as it is the most sublte, and sly, but speak what "send all away from "inner self" where all "truth is", as was spoken within the very "text" you claim to be "alive" within you....

indeed you serve it as a master, and what serving anything from the "outside" as "truth" will proivde, as witnessed down thru history....

half interpretations defined within your own book as "lies" of the serpent the mind........

yes indeed, there are many good things to be said as well, but these would only serve to pacify and to keep peace, without any knowing that only "peaceful truth" can create peace from truth, after the time is is seen with the heart to be true.......

these interpretations were FIRST believed from FEAR of being "bad", and as innocent, but all things are in layers, and it is also like this within the mind, and to remove the "top" layer "believed" with the seeing it is of "unpeace in all ways" is the only way to get back to "peace of the garden".....

how can ANY truth that lead to peace be founded on the good of ONE MOST AND FIRST.....

is this not why it said to make one's neighbors as EQUAL, ONE ENEMIES AS EQUAL, AS LOVING THEM, NOT MORE THAN SELF, BUT AT LEAST JUST AS MUCH, WOULD MAKE THEM AS EQAUL, SO EQUAL GOOD FOR ALL MUST BE IN THE BELIEFS HELD, OR WHAT WORTH IS ANY TRUTH, AS IT WILL LEAD TO DEMISE.....

QS........there is total knowing that you mean as well, with your entire heart, and it is easy to see why and how this is said with total sincerity, BELEIVING IT GOOD TRUTH, but you repeat unknowing what create MORE DIVIDE THAN ALL THINGS IN THE WORLD, and this is only my words, but they are all we have, so if you discount it, then tell how what you say can create peace for all.....

did not even "jesus" say he cam to pit mother agaisnt daughter, father against son, and etc, etc..............

but then that was THEN, and it was ALSO said that "later" he would "come" to bring ALL PEACE....

IS THIS NOT A CONTRADICTION......

how can it not be a contradiction, UNLESS HE KNEW THAT WHAT HE SAID WOULD THRUST THE "WORLD" FOR A TIME INTO UNREST, ALL DIVIDE, ALL SEEKING "GOD" THINKING THEY WERE "DOING GOOD", NOT SEEING THAT THEY WERE DESPISING THEIR NEIGHBORS BECAUSE OF THE INTERPRETATIONS BELIEVED, THAT GO "AGAINST" MANY OTHER THINGS SAID BY THE SAME "JESUS SAID TO BE SERVED".............

and you would "feel" me to be as satan himself for saying so, lol......

indeed, but this is only a feeling, from reading what seems to be "opposite" of all things called truth, and loved and followed, that even make up one's entire purpose of existence, SO OF COURSE SPEAKING SUCH I AM AS THE DEVIL TO YOU, but these are not full interpretations of anything ever said, and leave out MANY OTHER WORDS THAT WERE ALSO SPOKEN, which put TOGETHER DO NOT CREATE DIVIDE........

these facts are understood even before writing, but this does not change anything that is true or more true, AS WHAT IS THE BASIS FOR KNOWING WHAT IS TRUE BEST TRUTH IF ONE SEEK LOVE AND PEACE...

looking at what MOTIVE any DOCTRINE has to create within....

i am sorry, but such things you speak for others to "do" cannot be seen to create anything but divide within and then divide between all....

peace

Where faith exists...

Fear is not.