Um... that's not something we have actually discussed at my Unitarian church... but as we don't prohibit anything except harm to others and don't require anything at all then now that you mention it we can do anything we want as our own individual morals allow.

However, at my church and many other Unitarian Universalist church, many of the attendees have another, more structured religion as well. Eg. many are in relationships where the religions conflict- e.g. Christians and jews, buddhists and pagans, etc.

But I know quite a few christians who ignore or refute the sexual prohibitions of their religion. Isn't that what being a free thinker is about? Examining the individual elements of any philosophy or set of rules, etc. and deciding which you agree with and which ones you don't?

At this church we are watching movies while *in* the hot tub yes?

If so then I'm in- can we eat ice cream too? Ice cream is very spiritual IMHO....

Please, by all means let the unlocking begin!!

There are many christians. It is a frequent problem that we tend to think that they are all the same. In the baptist churches I attended as a child the preachers made it very clear that fear or hell and desire for heaven was why people should follow the commandments. There was much concentration on sin and original sin and man being a sinner. And there was a lot of hellfire and brimstone.

I'm glad for you that you do not believe in this but many christians still do. As far as I can tell these beliefs are based more on the old testament. I agree that the new testament tends to emphasize not judging, loving one another, etc. Is that what is practiced? Sometimes. None of us are perfect- christian or none christian.

If he is a stranger then my only social tie to him would be my perception of the social contract- that we always treat one another with courtesy. By spitting on me he breaks the social contract. Would I feel sympathy? I cannot tell from what we have thus far established. Education was a component for ethical behavior as well. So in this case I might have sympathy for him as I have been educated to the plight of the mentally ill and might perceive him to be mentally ill.

My response to being spat upon would partly depend on my perception of the individuals motivation for doing so. I do not enjoy being touched by strangers much less being exposed to their bodily fluids so I would feel disgust. My primary thought would to determine if he was a further threat to me or others. If I felt that he was, I would try to contact an authority. In any case I would try to calm the individual and do what I could for them. But I would defend myself it I needed to.

It's an interesting question because I had something similar happen recently. At a stop light a woman ran up to my car and began to beat her fists on the car and scream and weep and curse and spit at me. It was not comfortable but it was not as bad as your example because I was still protected to an extent in my car. I did end up pulling over to the adjacent convenience store and talking to her while we waited for the police to come. It turned out she was somewhat mentally unstable and she was taking some drugs that confused and aggravated her plus she had a lot of financial issues. Unfortunately, I was naive and thought that perhaps a social worker would be able to help her, etc. But the police ended up taking her and "baker acting" her. I believe this is a 24-72 hour hold to check for mental illness, determine whether she is a threat to others or herself, etc. I do not know what happened to her after that- I'm not really sure what else I could have done.

It depends on what you mean by include or teach...

I do not believe that the man Jesus Christ was the "son of god" or messiah but I would have no problem recognizing that there are many people who do believe this- so in that sense I would include christ in winter celebrations.

The longest night was a celebration that greatly preceded the supposed birth of christ and many historians feel that the actual date of jesus' birth was moved to coincide with these winter solstice holidays (both because people were already used to celebrating then and because these celebrations could hide or mask the christian celebrations which were illegal) is this what you mean has been refuted by many? The *timing* of the birth of Christ?

I think that lying to children destroys their faith... if you cannot believe what your parents tell you how can you ever believe anything?

Good for you.

That is what i have always believed as well... how could we possibly be so important? Why would a being capable of creating all this ("god") care about every little action of its creations?

And I tend to think that there is/was a creator who set up the universe a certain way and then just left it be... but sometimes, especially in this past year for me things have occurred that make me question this belief.

Strange things happen, too many coincidences make me question. Sometimes it seems whenever I am truly in despair something happens, some little thing that enables me to remember and focus on the good things in life. Maybe god does somehow touch individual lives?

However, there are other explanations besides that god must have taken some kind of action. I do think everything is connected. So maybe sometimes we can actually exert influence on one another when we need to... and maybe some people are better at this than others...

Peace to you. I hope you find the strength you need to realize that there are still good things in this world.

I wonder why celibacy was prized at the time anyway? Seems like there would not have been a big population problem... was it to prevent the spread of venereal disease?

I have heard it said that celebacy helps one be closer to the christian god. But why would that be so? Wouldn't one be doing god's will more by raising children within the same religious tradition?

Why would sympathy and social ties exclude love? Sympathy to me implies some empathy as well which is a form of love. Social ties could be "loving" or more casual.

And I believe Einstein is talking about motivations for ethical behavior not the behavior itself. E.g. he clearly states ethical behavior should not be based on fear of hell or to get to heaven.

I cannot speak (obviously) directly to what Einstein meant but I can see education as a motivating force for ethical behavior in several ways. Education and discussions help us understand what is the most ethical action where the choice is ambiguous. Education also shows people how ethical actions may benefit them- e.g. helping the less fortunate may result in those who are helped being more productive. Do we not educate children about what is ethical behavior and why they should make the right choices?

To me Einstein is merely saying in this quote that we should not be motivated by fear or to "get" something out of it. We can make the choice to do the right thing because as responsible, educated members of society who understand how the actions of the individual effect society as a whole and because we choose to do the right thing for it's own sake.

So you are saying individuals should only talk to priests, gurus, monks, nuns, preachers, rabbis or others for whom religious and spiritual pursuits are "full-time"?

and I don't think most of us perceive ourselves as "giving advice" so much as just sharing our viewpoints and experiences- if they end up being helpful to another then great but the purpose for me it just sharing and curiosity and the conversation itself often clarifys my own thoughts...

Oh and my beliefs do not prohibit physical affection as long as it is not harmful or unwelcome.

I don't understand why so many people concentrate their religious beliefs on negative things.

It's simple. Don't hurt anyone if you can help it. Do the best you can. Love one another.

The world is very beautiful and there is a lot to see and do. Every day the sun comes up. Beautiful. Every day the sun goes down. Glorious.

Bad things do happen and that is hard to take. Accidents, illness, injury, hardship, loss, even hurt feelings... all can be difficult to handle and cause us to forget what is really important. I am no exception. But I think god created the universe in a certain way, so that things tend to balance out and disorder and disturbances serve purposes that are not always immediately apparent...

Peace and joy.

Hey Spider- how does this fit in with the seemingly *much* more commonly embraced "be fruitful and multiply" doctrine?

I enjoy both spirituality and religion.

I think that they are different and to me the biggest difference is that spirituality is very personal and individual and religion is more formulaic and intended for groups.

Spirituality is me paying attention to my life, to what is happening now, to what is good in the world. Spirituality is being in nature, it is listening to myself, it is many things but as I said they are personal to me. I can share aspects of my spirituality but I don't need to share my spiritual beliefs or meditation, etc in order for it to be meaningful.

Religion to me is a group activity- even if the religion is practiced alone at times it is based on what groups of people or authors of books or both have agreed on. It is defined and standardized within itself although some are more fluid or adaptable than others. I feel that religion can be useful. Religion at it's best is just an education and a community- a forum for teaching children and adults, for discussing what is right conduct in ambiguous situations, how to solve problems, how to help and care for one another, a community that cares for one another and helps each other... I rarely see that occur but it could be good in the abstract.

Peace and joy.

What do you mean by "righteousness"?

Also, truth is very useful but is there not something to be said for knowing when to withhold information, timing, tact, subtlety, politeness and other shadings of truth?

Peace.

Why do we need the pronoun? I just say "god" all the time.

We have discussed this gender question before with some interesting perspectives but I think that in a very general sense creative forces (life creators) are normally thought of as female. Protectors and disciplinarians tend to be perceived as male... so maybe it depends on what you are looking for from your god? Isn't the god created to meet man's needs.

But for me, I always thought the idea that god was similar to man in composition was just a convenience, a convention to make man more comfortable with god... to feel closer to god by having some kind of similarity of form.

How could a creature similar to man create a whole world, solar system, etc.? This idea is not believable for me.

I have no idea what the creator of the universe looks like but I doubt it is like anything I have ever seen before so I can't see a gender being important... I don't perceive god as even having may a gender as god may well be a force or energy based.

I don't know for sure as I've never seen god.

Peace and joy to all regardless of the gods you choose or the genders you choose for your god.

(((((Abra))))))

Descended from clams?

Like Venus on the half-shell?

All religions just borrow from other religions don't they...

Peace.

Uh... nothing wrong with being gay either. But I agree waxing, etc. has nothing to do with sexual orientation.