Believe in evolution?
read on!

Dont believe in evolution
read on!

Dont believe in anything
read on!

According to the fundamental principle of evolution; mutations, we came from simple to more complex.

Now, if you have NO blood clotting system and you cut yourself; you bleed to death.
So if we "evolved" to get more and more complex; tell me how did the lifeforms evolve to create the ability of blood clotting?
if in order to DO this, you need to experience it right?
no experience = no call to evolve into a superior species right?

but if you dont have a blood clot system and you get cut, you bleed to death.
Remind me, can your species evolve into a stronger, fitter lifeform if you (the one that experienced and therefore the catalyst for evolution along your offspring) are dead?

The eye
"The eye is a extremely complex organ. It has the complicated system whereby light is directed to the back of the eye on to cells which are sensitive to it; it also has that even more intricate arrangement whereby the information then travels to the visual part of the brain so that we actually see someting.
...
All the specialized and complex cells that make up our eyes are supposed to have evolved because of advantageous mutations in some more simple cells that were before. But what use is a hole in the front of the eye to allow light to pass through, if there are no cells at the back of the eye to recieve light?
what use is a lens forming an image if there is no nervous system to interpret that image?
How could a visual nervous system have evolved [ibefore there was an eye to give it infomation?"
- taken from Bone of contention; Is evolution true? (by Sylvia Baker)
(my emphasis)

And what about the infamous MISSING LINKS???
Lucy?
Nearly all expers agree that lucy was a 3ft chimp

Heidelberg man??
Built from a jaw bone (yes thats right JUST FROM *ONE JAW BONE!) that was conceded by many to be quite human

Nebraska man???
Scientifically built up fro one tooth.....Need I say more?
Yes actually....the tooth was found to be that of an extinct PIG

Piltdown man????
Another Jawbone....turned out it was that of a modern ape.

Peking man?????
Supposedly 500,000 years old...but all evidence has conviently disapeared? Not to mention the extreme FLAWED dating system known as radio active dating - which relies on MASSIVE assumptions that can date a specimen hundreds of thousands of years difference!!!!!!!!!!

Neaderthal man??????
Bugger. this one turned out to be an old man that suffered from arthritis!

New Guinea man???????
AT LAST A RELIABLE LINK!
This one dates all the way back to 1970. Yes 1970. That isnt a typo.

Cro-Magnon man????????
One of the oldest and best established fossils is at least equal in physique and brain capacity to modern man......so whats the difference?

Modern man????????????
Ah this genius thinks we came from monkeys.

- All missing link info taken from a Tract, which advises:
For more details, read "The collapse of evolution" by Scott M. Huse. avai fro Chick Pub.
and
For more details watch Part 2 of the Creation Seminar series video by Dr. Kent Hovind.

I doubt most of you that actually believe in evolution had even heard of some of those...but since its your belief surely you've heard about the Archaopteryx?
Long story short, this was pushed as *THE* link evolutionists were looking for!...............turns out this bird isnt actually the MISSING LINK from Lizard to Bird....its species can be found in the Amazon; The Hoatzin.

"Crap." you say?
No links. -- ALL based on MASSIVE speculation
Advantageous Mutation shown IMPOSSIBLE.

the theory of evolution requires FAR MORE FAITH than any religion.
THAT is JUST how unlikely it is.

I could go into radiation dating, the age of the earth, the great flood of Noahs days, but I wont.

Why not just read what I read: Bone of Contention, Is Evolution True? by Sylvia Baker M.Sc
Thats more than enough.

It's true, but we all everything on this earth is made of the same thing. We all come from the same place. Evoloution or not we are made of what everything else is made of.

Carbon? lol.

Thats what scientist are trying to find now: the newest idea is that life on this earth evolved from organisms that arrive fro outer space. Saw it on a recent documentary.
All is shows is these "experts" are running out of ideas.

I think the next theory will be that we are products of aliens.
whether thats cloning, another race or whatever, that is my prediction of the next most popular theory.

Carbon? lol.

Thats what scientist are trying to find now: the newest idea is that life on this earth evolved from organisms that arrive fro outer space. Saw it on a recent documentary.
All is shows is these "experts" are running out of ideas.

I think the next theory will be that we are products of aliens.
whether thats cloning, another race or whatever, that is my prediction of the next most popular theory.

I won't go through all of your examples, however, you're initial supposition is completely wrong. Evolution is about selective pressures on populations that favor previously acquired mutations. It's not about 'experience' per se, it's about having a phenotype that allows greater survival within a certain niche.

When talking about eyes, it's better to look at the simpler examples and then work to more complicated ones. There are small single celled critters that have light spots, with the purpose of directing the organism to light. Other organisms, still relatively simple have eye spots that are integrated into neural nets. Examples of primitive eye'like structures are abundant in nature. In that light, it is entirely conceivable to imagine a lens being 'added' to the system, in order to localize the source, or allow more coordinate movement, or something similarly useful.

I'm heading to bed, but if you want to chat more, let me know

Umm, where do you get this info? Much of it is false, for example Neanderthaul was not an arthritic old man. Neanderthaul, though not a human ancestor, was a very robust and strong species who had several remains discovered. We have more than one. Lucy, you're right, everybody agrees she was a chimp, a BI PEDAL CHIMP, in other words a chimp with our pelvis designed for walking upright. Remember, a theory is more than an educated guess, I think your definition of theory is really a hypothisis, evolution is a true scientific theory;^]

WHAT THE BLAZES ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

NERO

Wrong.

And that’s your misguided thinking right there.

Not much sense in reading beyond your statement quoted above because this statement shows unequivocally that you have absolutely no clue how evolution works. Therefore anything you have to say about evolution will certainly be misguided.

All you did here is show that you have absolutely no clue about how evolution works.

Here is what really gets me you can read Abra's quote above that shows that you are not understanding the basics of evolution.

Then I think about the fact that Christians are supposed to be all about truth.

I put these two together and I can not make sense of it. You are making false statements. Now you have been given the truth. Will you examine that because it is your duty as a Christian? or will you follow your God down a false path?

Seems that the thought is that mutation takes an event to happen, then the cell mutates to adapt to it. But mutations don't happen. There are unsuccessful mutations that die out and mutations that are successfull that usually lead to change.

As for the lists of fossils, yes, some have been shown to be frauds. But not all. The case of the Neanderthal is still contested. About the only scientists saying it is human are christian scientists trying to disprove the theory of evolution. Religious and Secular scientists are still arguing over it. And of the scientists stating that these are human bones, they can't even agree on what the people might have been suffering from. It runs the gammut from arthritis, to ricket, to hunchbacks and other deformities.

Both are just theories. But it gets me when a small group of scientists disagree with another group of scientists and then people use the evidnece as ALL scientists now believe such and such, when that isn't true at all.

On the other hand, I agree, building up a whole creature just from a tooth is bound to end up with all sorts of errors and just isn't good science.

On top of that, when you take all your evidence from a religious site (I found the copy of this as I was trying to look up information) you are assuming a very biased view and treating it as unbiased. In truth, the only way to research it is to take the evidence from a wide source of studies, to try to minimize and eliminate bias, and then figure out what is going on.

The Scientific method is the way to eliminate bias. That is what gave us the theory of evolution in the first place.

Info copied from net...

# The scientific method is a way to ask and answer scientific questions by making observations and doing experiments.
# The steps of the scientific method are to:

* Ask a Question
* Do Background Research
* Construct a Hypothesis
* Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
* Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
* Communicate Your Results



It doesn't care if it hurts anyones feelings. It doesn't go around trying to get followers. It just gains information. People are drawn to it because it draws closer and closer to the truth with each test. Christians should learn a lesson from this. The TRUTH will set you free.

Untamed,

I for one, am sold 'lock, stock and barrel' on the undisputable 'load' of proof you provide to us all in this OP of yours:













... YOU ARE IRREVOCABLY LOCKED AND STUCK IN THE BARREL OF 'CREATIONIST' DOGMA!!! NO DOUBT ABOU THAT!!!

'LOCKED AND STUCK IN THE BARREL' kind of dogma, has no interest for 'what is true'.

It is 'locked and stuck' in its own 'fabricated truth', and only interested in avoiding and displacing any authentic search for 'what is true'!

Mutations have proved to be dis adventageous to a species and a hinderance. A'birth defect'. It is genetically impossible for DNA to change. The entire notion was conjured up before the actual discovery of DNA and it's static state. Civilized man claims to be more enlightened if they believe in this farce but fail to neglect modern day proof which has displaced the very notion of Evolving. It's absolutely ridiculous really. It's a cop out and arrogant to assume omthing that claims to be scientific but is indeed nothing short of a daydreamers rantings.

Evolution: Destiny Lab


A NEW RELIGION IS BEGINNING
TO OVERCOME THE MINDS OF THE YOUNG
IT GOES BY THE NAME OF EVOLUTION
INVADING ALL OF EDUCATION
TRICKING THEM TO LISTEN TO
DARWINIAN WISDOM
SORRY CHARLIE
THESE TRICKS AREN'T FOR KIDS
YA CANT TRICK THE TRUTH
CUZ I JUST BLEW OFF THE LID
SEE NOW EVERYONE WANTS TO KNOW
THE TRUTH OF WHERE WE CAME FROM
WAS IT REALLY GOD OR ARE WE JUST POND SCUM?
CHARLIE SAYS YOU AND ME CAME FROM THE SEA
SWAM ON TO LAND UNTIL WE TURNED TO CHIMPANZEES
CHARLIE PLEASE WHATS IN BETWEEN?
EVER SEEN A HALF GIRAFFE KANGAROO WITH PENGUIN WINGS?
OR WHAT ABOUT A PLATYPUS?
EXPLAIN IT TO US
OR FOSSILS THAT TRAVEL VERTICALLY
IN THE EARTHS CRUST
WHY DO WE LISTEN? HUMAN AMNESIA
WHAT WERE MISSING IS THE KNOWLEDGE THAT FEEDS YA

CHORUS

10 TRILLION YEARS OF EVOLUTION
COULD NEVER ACCOUNT FOR THE CREATION THAT WE LIVE IN
10 TRILLION YEARS OF EVOLUTION
COULD NEVER ACCOUNT FOR THE CREATION THAT WE LIVE IN


SOME SCIENTISTS DON’T REALLY KNOW
ANY MORE THAN YOUR MAMA
FIGHTING WITH EACH OTHER
LIKE SOME DRAMA FROM A SOAP OPERA
PSYCHO BABEL FROM THE MINDS OF GROWN MONKEYS
THERE DABBLING IN LIES
THERE NUTS LIKE JIF CHUNKY
NINETY EIGHT PERCENT OF PEOPLE CLAIM BELIEF IN GOD BUT ASKED IF THEY BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION THEY APPLAUD THAT’S CONTRADICTORY
THAT’S CALLED HYPOCRISY
ITS FAIRY TALE TIME IN EVERY UNIVERSITY
YOU COULD GET BRAINWASHED IN EVERY MAJOR COLLEGE
GRADUATE A GROWN UP MONKEY WITH MANS KNOWLEDGE
WHERE DO WE COME FROM?
LITTLE SHOCKED AMOEBAS?
CAN IT BE TRUE THAT PEOPLE REALLY DO BELIEVE THIS?
I BEG TO DIFFER
THROUGH THE FACTS THAT ARE DELIVERED
FISH ON MY BUMPER
EATING DARWIN LIKE THE BUMPER STICKER
NOW IS IT REALLY JUST SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST?
LETS BRING BACK THE FAITH
CAN I GET A WITNESS?

CHORUS

AND THE CREATION THAT SURROUNDS US ASTOUNDS US
BUT WE GIVE GLORY TO OURSELVES AND THAT’S OUTLANDISH
WE GIVE GLORY TO THE EARTH
GLORY TO THE STARS
GLORY TO SOME INSIGNIFICANT ROCK FROM MARS
GLORY TO CREATION NOT CREATOR
TELL ME HOW YOU GET A PAINTING UNLESS YOU HAVE PAINTER?
HOW YOU GET SCULPTURE UNLESS YOU HAVE A SCULPTOR?
HOW YA GET A LUKE UNLESS YOU HAVE DARTH VADER?
JUST ONE WAY THE NARROW PATH TO THE KINGDOM
ITS NOT RELIGION IT’S THE TRUTH I BELIEVE IN
WHEELS OF RELIGION DO NOT SPOKE TO THE CENTER
YOU CANNOT CHOOSE THROUGH WHICH GOD YOU MAY ENTER
CAUGHT IN A WHIRLWIND OF UNDECISION KNOWN AS PLURALISM
A VISION THAT WILL LEAVE YOU UNFORGIVEN
FOR HE HAS RISEN AND FREED US FROM THIS PRISON
I KNOW THAT WHEN I DIE MY LIFE'S JUST BEGINNING.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/1/l_011_01.html

same as in the other thread. pbs' take on the evolution of the eye

Talk about making up hogwash.

No sane biologist on earth would agree with your statements above. Your statements are totally false and have no merit whatsoever.

DNA is extremely prone to change. If there's any surprise at all its in the fact that it doesn't change more radically than it already does.

Where do these religious freaks come from?

Honestly, if you have to make up utter lies to make a case for your religious view that doesn’t say much for your religion. Clearly the religion has absolutely no merit of its own if they only way you can support it is to make up completely bogus statements about the real world just to support dogma that was clearly written by ignorant superstitious men.

This is nothing short of pathetic.

It just goes to show how desperate a dying religion can be.

I'll state it again. The scientific method is there for all to use. If you creationists are so sure of the science of your side start doing the hard work. It should be easy to prove your position from what you say. But don't just expect to step up to the scientific community with crazy ideas and expect to throw them int o the classroom. You need to do the hard work first. If you are to scared to do hard work then I am sorry for you.

"Where do these religious freaks come from?"

Nice one MR. Enlightenment.

If you can name a genetic alteration where DNA morphed from one code to another you would be rich.

I knew posting here was hopeless. It's the same old people who claim they are better than Christ but can't seem to move on. If you know it's such a dying religion, ignore it and it will die off with your evolution as we become more "progressive". You waste time fighting somthing that your theory tells you will just go away one day by 'natural' progression. I think most of you post here because God isn't the magic Genie you wanted him to be. It's easier to post excuses than to move on in one direction or another.

It's called a theory for a reason, daydreamers. and I did my homework. The circular reasoning, the contrived hand made illustrations, it's all propoganda to fuel dependancy on a man made system of government instead of harboring freedom and having true happiness and destiny. They rob you every day and most of you have no idea what I'm even saying.

The blind leading the blind. They have ears but do not hear, eyes, but do not see.

I really don't want to get into this stuff, but we don't have Lucy's pelvis. We have one hip bone and a fragment of the sacral area of the pelvis.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/7951/lucy.jpg

Here is an article about Oliver, a bi-pedial chimp who was once believed to be a human-chimp hybrid or even a missing link. After DNA testing, it was confirmed that he was simply a weird looking chimp.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_(chimpanzee)

Now let's assume that we had enough of Lucy's skeleton to say that she was bi-pedial. That's an assumption, since we don't have enough of it's (we can't even prove the gender) skeleton to determine conclusively if it was a biped. But assuming that we could confirm that Lucy was a female and was a biped, how do we know that Lucy didn't have the same deformities that Oliver had? Is it unreasonable to assume that Lucy could be deformed just like Oliver is deformed? I guess it all comes down to what you are willing to accept at faith.

Someone claimed they were better than Christ? I missed that one. You seem to be making lots of stuff up off the top of your head here today.



YES! There is a theory of evolution. But there is also the factual evidence for evolution. These are two different things.

They still call Einstein’s relativity a ‘theory’ too, yet all of its predictions have been confirmed. Time really does dilate, lengths really do contract.

The fact that they still call it a theory doesn’t change the fact that it’s predictions are true.

Same thing is true with evolution. You can talk about the theory all you want. The fact is that the earth really is 4.5 billion years old, and that the fossil record clearly shows that life evolved form very simple forms to very complex forms over that period of time. That fossil record is hardly “theory”.



So you’re saying that your God isn’t a magic Genie?

Post excuses for what? What is it that you think we need to ‘excuse’?

SOS, 'nother day. Goin bowling with fam.