I'm not trying to do anything, just telling you that there is no such thing. Please don't think I am trying to 'convert' you. If I was, then yes I would be failing. I'm telling you the factual truth which has (apparently) been 'proved' by the scientist Dawson - but I would be the first to admit I don't understand how you can 'prove' the absence of something!

I've no idea why you keep bringing my grandfather into this. I think he saw his 'calling' as a job. When he retired, he moved away from the area and as far as I know he never went to church again! So mentioning him is totally out of context. By the way my Mother was a Catholic. I wonder what nonsense you will say about that!

Like Tom, I'm quite happy in my acceptance of my belief.

I do not expect punishment or reward after death. I expect no more after death than for a cat or a dog. Quite simply there is nothing after death.

At the same time I'm also happy that everyone else enjoys their belief. If you want to look clever and tell us that the current version(s) of the bible are all translated wrongly and you are so clever that you know the right meanings, then go ahead. You're putting yourself against the leading scholars who have all no doubt read all the thins you have read and perhaps because of their wider understanding have come to different conclusions. I've not attempted to argue about these mistranslations. I don't argue that the current versions of the bible are more correct. I say only that as they are written by scholars whose life study is the bible they are far more likely to be correct translations than some bloke on the internet!

But all that is irrelevant to me. I find these discussions about who said what and what bits are not correctly translated all rather boring, so although I will enjoy the smiles of reading this nonsense, I doubt I shall bother to make further contributions. Non-believers reading this are recommended to look up Humanism on google.

there are factual "Truths" and factual "Theories." a theory however, does not actually have to be a "Truth," it just has to be proven and accepted "AS A fact!!"

there are multiple indicators proving the existence of God, outside of actually having a personal relationship with Him.

it's interesting that You harp on seeking facts and truths, but have never solved, the "Mystery of the Word of God.."




i question the entire European belief systems and their Doctrine(s). too many dirty hands involved..




as am i with my own belief.




it took generations for animals to be as domesticated like we witness today. therefore, that was not their inherited traits to be our servants.

human beings on the other hand, those whose consciousness have chosen to agree and obey with certain morals on the idea and principle that we humans are a Species, not evolved from Evolution, but evolved from time and observation in generational life experience... have concluded, a "Set of Rules" is the best way to coincide together.

we unlike any other Specie, felt the need to format a "Code of Ethics."
^
this here is where i see the "TRUTH."

ALL things living, have lived, will live, all from the "BANG!!"

INHERITED, WE, AS IN ALL SPECIES, SHOULD ALL THINK ON SIMILAR TERMS, since we all come from the "SAME BANG!!"

every Species outside of our own fends for themselves and immediate offspring. they kill one another for food or because it could be a threat later...that is Natural Selection.

But we humans, as a Specie unto our own kind, deriving from nothing but our own kind..."WE HAVE SET A CODE OF RULES AND MORALS" in hopes we do not live as the ANIMALS and OTHER SPECIES.

that inherited conviction, that separates us from other Species, is proof of a SOUL that was designed by God!!



yep, each person needs to seek out their own beliefs and convictions. others can offer input, but it all comes down to what that person trusts for themselves.

so you mean not even God lives behind your eyes ...isn't that an indication that you and your morals are Godless


actually Spinoza own the copyrights to the God with no name


what if they believe that God commanded them to kill you ..would you have an issue then


by posting that...you're now guilty of the same





doesn't matter, once you brought the Greeks into the equation you brought in Zeus and the existence of Gods other than Zeus and Yahweh ...that the Elohim is not an individual but a Race


actually back in them biblical days Jesus was a common name ..but according to the Torah the Messiah would be named Immanuel not Jesus




simply include the term delusion ...a delusion is just as real to the one having it as a nightmare is to a person asleep



that you're circumcised perhaps?


isn't Humanism simply Atheism

i mentioned the Greeks pertaining to their Ancient historians and that simply the Greek version verifies the Aramaic which both are 1600+ years older than the English versions.

the greek myths have nothing to do with my point.

You are so off the wall, you should be a crooked picture.




it was NEVER jesus, but always Yeshua.

and, Immanuel means God with us. Yeshua means "Yahweh's Salvation," which is what IMMANUEL is referring to...that...God was with them via Yeshua.

if you wish to use ancient Greek to verify the Aramaic then you have to acknowledge the existence of Zeus


then your post is a contradiction ....the fact that you use Greek Myth in an attempt to make your point is why Greek Myth has something to do with your point



it's because you're providing crooked evidence ...the Hebrew Bible along with the Greeks are destroying your argument ...perhaps it's time for you to come back home to the English Bible ...God would want you to...because your constant mistranslation of The Hebrew Bible is not in his grace



according to the Greeks it could have been Jesus ...also Yeshua could have meant Joshua ...see how you're attempting to turn this into a definition debate ..it means you lack any factual argument


doesn't matter what Yeshua means since the Torah said that the Messiah's name would be Immanuel...being a fake Messiah would explain why God forsaken Jesus and why Jesus dying on the cross didn't remove any of the original sins (for those that believe)

Not really.
'Nobody' indicates no other person and since God is well..., God, not included in that distinction.
Why are you so adamant about telling me I am Godless?
Since it is 'my' God and 'my' Belief, can't you figure out I don't consider those arguments valid because they are out of reference?
For YOU or anyone else to know if I am Godless would require you to have access to my inner being, of which you do not.


LOL, another attempt of yours to minimize my own beliefs and my idea of God.
Do you feel threatened by my beliefs?
For me, God's name is...wait for it...God.


No.
I would defend myself by any and all means necessary but not because God told me to, because Life is important to me...Duh?


Perhaps, in your mind, I am but its obvious you can't accept others unless they are what you expect them to be.
By posting that, I am also saying I have no problem in 'you' Believing as 'you' want.

I have no 'need' to prove my belief.
I offer up my views on the subject as a 'view'.

You could just say to yourself, "Oh, that's an interesting view but I don't have the same view concerning my beliefs".
What you 'do' is attack me for my personal beliefs.

but what is included in that God distinction is The Flying Spaghetti monster


but it was you yourself that indicated that you were Godless, you claim that you follow no religion, so where do you get your morals from ...clearly not from God...therefore you and your morals are Godless


not actually, what I'm saying is that Spinoza's God is of the philosophy of those that have Gods with no name ...which generally consist of believers rebelling against their parents religion or religion in general ...


let's just say that since your beliefs help create the atmosphere for the existence of God you are responsible for those that torment torture and/or kill in his name


God is not a name but a description or Title ... a name would be Godzilla is God ..or Godzilla is Elohim


it's not that you have a need to prove your belief it's the fact that you can't prove your belief ....what you going to do show me God's Drivers License ...with the belief that if the department of Motor Vehicles say you're God, then you're God


that's called being "passive aggressive' ...in them biblical days and in some countries today you would have been stoned

Let's not.

There are a few things wrong with your assumptions.
A significant one is the idea that my beliefs and my God is anything like religious Gods.
(Its obvious you haven't read many of my past contributions to these forums.)
[which is okay]

In a condensed version of my past postings;
God is the unknown force that initiated movement in a static Universe.
It is the duration between moments.
Everything (including life) is a product of that initial change, the evolution of the Universe in which we exist.
God cares as much as gravity or energy cares.
It doesn't talk to me and I don't talk to it.
I believe I live in the now, right now.
I try to remove delusions and embrace reality.

As for "torment, torture and kill", I do not condone torment or torture but killing is part of reality.
We are a population of nearly 8 billion people now.
Killing mass quantities of people is the only option left to us if we do not want our species to go extinct.
Plus, being omnivores, we kill to eat.

I do see religion has been an effective societal control.
Religions do have a knack for bring unity to a group.
Society thrives on unity.
The issue is cultural clash.
During the 'heyday' of religions, people were culturally isolated.
As people started moving into new areas with different cultures and different religions, beliefs were challenged and defended.
Now we are becoming globally aware.
Individuals have access to an ever-increasing reality knowledge base.
Individuals no longer need someone or some religion to tell them what reality is.
More and more people are experiencing conflict in their 'known' beliefs.
Conflict leads to stress, stress leads to poor (rash) decision making.
Life is no longer filled with joy and contentment.

Abandoning religion and its doctrine makes more sense to the reality people experience right now, in the now.
There are those that defend their religion with all their might.
Like a drug addict defending his stash.
To them, it doesn't matter whether it makes sense, its what they believe they must do.
If they attack me, I defend myself from their attack, not from their beliefs.
However, if I do not attack their beliefs, we can usually get along just fine.

My sister prays before every meal.
When I sit down to dinner at her house, I just sit quietly while they pray.
They get done and we all eat.
Not a big deal.

In these forum discussions there are many assumptions made and many aggressive defenses. Its why they can sometimes blow out of proportion and get vulgar or hateful.
I find, if I allow someone to give their take on the subject and it makes sense to them, I can either allow it to make sense or I can try to give them a different take on it the way I see it.
Not that I am any more 'right' than they are, just different.

Ya also gotta remember where you are participating.
This is a dating site.
Many people here are frustrated, angry or spurned.
Same subject at a forum that is at a philosophy scholar's university site will yield different conversations.

I am me.
I am the only one that is me on this entire planet.
You are you.
You are the only one that is you on the entire planet.
I'll believe whatever I want.
You'll believe whatever you want.
If we compare our beliefs, they will never be the same.

Religion tries to tell you they must be the same.
It promises rewards (Heaven)
and punishments (Damnation)
if you do not share those beliefs.
What many fail to realize is the rewards and punishments happen AFTER you die.
Thus, nobody will report back that they lied.
Nobody will bring back the virgins they were promised or the gold.
Nobody brings back the fire or the brimstone.
Because, when you are dead, really dead, yer dead.

I am just commenting on the last few responses.
OP, I am glad you have your faith and beliefs , if it leads you to have a better and more fulfilling life and provides you with guidance.

I love Tom's responses and that he doesn't push his beliefs on anyone.
I also like his humor.

Funches, you have made some Outstanding comments and arguments, some very amusing.

You lost me, however, when you said a person has to believe in the existence of Zeus in order to use Greek translations. After that, you lost me further with some of your analogies/comparisons and comments, but you had some very
Intelligent points b4 then.
As a Trekkie, I loved you bringing up the Borg collective.

MK, As usual, You demonstrate intelligence ,wit and humor in your very credible statements.

http://https//youtu.be/2aBkLjFG4Bs

so you don't condone torment or torture but do condone killing mass amounts of people not realizing that such actions would cause torment and torture ..perhaps a buddhist would claim that you're the reincarnation of Hitler and his "Final Solution" ..but anyway this just adds to the evidence that those that have a belief in God (even a God with no name) is consciously Sociopathic



when using Greek translations to prove the existence of a God then it's only logical and expected that you have to include and/or acknowledge the existence of their God(s)namely Zeus.... in other words ...it's hypocritical to claim that your unprovable God exist but theirs don't


for example


(NERD ALERT)... I should have use the episode from the original series called "I MUDD" in which Kirk and crew was trapped on a planet of androids all consciously collectively linked to a single android named "Norman"...(NERD ALERT OVER)


the Grandfather incident probably brought back childhood memories and cause him to drop out of the discussion ...hopefully he will recover and come back

come back Shane ....Shane come back

Hi Funches,
Thanks for responding. Your comments r duly noted. You asked what other comments of your's that threw me off, or that I disagreed with. So I will comment w/o belaboring too much minutia.

I still feel that a person doesn't need to believe in the existence of Zeus in order to use Greek translations.

I agree with R2d2r2d2's statement that what happens to 1, impacts All does not cancel out Free Will.
I do think, however, that people whom care about others will take that impact into considersation.
This doesn't cancel out Free Will (Unless, it's the most extreme definition possible), you still have to make decisions, and what you do is still ultimately up you, exercising you Free Will.

But Anyway, that Star Trek episode with Harry Mudd was great. The ending was Hilarious!

I am Glad to see you participating. You've made some great arguments.

in a Religion Forum that would require a miracle


everything the Ancient Greeks done was based on Zeus, therefore Greek Translations only becomes a problem if you are a follower of the God of Abraham (Judeo-Christian Islam) because to use the Greeks to verify The Old Testament is to place Zeus above Yahweh and Yahweh specifically forbid his followers to do this because as he stated...he is a Jealous God


if "Free Will" existed...why are there Prisons and Graveyards ... funches 3:16

Well thank you for those kind comments

I think in essence, I agree with Tom as far as the name he uses for the phenomenon he describes. To me (maybe its my upbringing) 'God' is some sort of being, not an old man with a long beard who lives in the sky, but still some sort of 'father figure'. I can't get my head round that. Tom neatly puts the ideas together that I don't talk to God and he or she doesn't talk to me. God cares about me as much as gravity or energy does - I *really* like that one! I just prefer to call this phenomenom by a different name to ge all those old connotations of religious stuff out of my head. For now 'evolution' is the best word I can think of, other than just 'stuff happens'.

I know I've been hard on some of the posters, especially those whose posts remind me of the earnest discussions about how many angels can dance on a pin head. Does it matter? NO! It's irrelevant to the question about whether there is or is not a 'God'.

So allowing over-population to lead to extinction is not going to torture or torment anyone? Over-population is ALREADY tormenting and torturing people.
Plus, the more people on the planet at one time, the more torment and torture that happens.
There are more people being born than dying and those alive are living longer.
We do not have the technology to remove 4 billion people from the planet.
We are not even trying to develop such technology.
We refuse to see what is happening.
Its already past the tipping point.
Our species is extinct already and we just fail to see it.

World War 2, the highest death toll of all wars was 70-85 million people all together.
Lets go with est. 90,000,000.
There are est. 8,000,000,000 people alive right now and increasing every second.
Try thinking about it.

We all reason according to our own minds.

I am not concerned with religion.
I use God because I haven't figured out what it is.
Was always taught that God was 'mysterious' so this mysterious force is called God for lack of a better descriptor.

Plus, I also realize the force that initiated movement in the static Universe may be a different force than what happens between moments of time.
I could call it the "I Don't Know Force" but "God" is much simpler to say and type. Plus, it immediately relates a mystery to anyone paying attention.

First I want to clarify that when I said, in my very first posting on this subject, OP: I am glad you have your faith...".
I actually meant that for I am Ressurrected ( Is he still here? I think he might have droppedout).

Tom, I liked your statement describing the Initiating Force that sparked the first movement, and
that it may be different, or operate under different properties outside of time.

Funches, Thanks for responding to my comments.

since you guys prefer a God that care about you about as much as poop ....then allow me to "re-introduce" you to the Genesis God that drown everyone on the Planet except a few dung shovellers on Noah's Ark and couldn't care less ...it's becoming quite clear that you guys are still program to follow your childhood God


ok...if you truly believe this...and if possible are you willing to have all those in your family bloodline and all those they associate with all killed ...a simple "yes or no" would suffice...but however you answer that question(if you dare to answer) will be interesting ...so one sec while i pop some popcorn


but my married friends told me that when it comes to torment and torture it only requires two people


yep, that generally how a non-omnipotent species keep from going extinct


would you be willing to present such an argument to the residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki


yep, because everytime I drive somewhere I see thousands of people


perhaps an overpopulation of those with a belief in Gods is nature's way of causing a species to go extinct ... funches 3:16

God doesn't exist, cuz God Is! I that's all

when a scud missile made contact with its target and detonation was set off, recoil took havoc on everything within its deadly range.

one of those instances included 6 enlisted men travelling, who drove right into the actual target zone. a piece of rod iron steel somehow found its way into the skull of 1 enlisted men in the back seat (and chances are that same piece of steel is what most likely almost decapitated the one next to him. the 3rd beside them was crushed to death. the driver and the person next to me (both sitting by me, I was in the middle) were burnt alive before my very eyes. and there was me...not a single scratch.

I saw a Being during this moment, that would have made a total of 7 men, the 6 enlisted and this person that just told me it was not my time. if it was not for the rest of the company following us and witnessing, no one believed me that I was in the same vehicle after examining the others.


^
that is just 1 of a few distinct instances I have experienced where more than just stupid luck could have stepped in.

I am a very hard headed person. and I believe God allowed me to experience these things, especially since I challenged Him to prove to me He existed.