Haha QFT.Amazing isn't it.I AM gave out free will passes yet if you don't believe in it you'll fry.So i guess certain individuals get VIP membership to heaven.

we all die. the end,,if you believe, you can continue on living

doesnt get much simpler than that

its amazing that so many find that such an 'unfair' reality

I keep getting replies between editing my post, lol.

God isn't being paid? Sheesh, what's with that basket that gets passed around the church on Sundays then? In all seriousness though, you know as well as I do that that's a silly example, god has no use for material things. I may not be religious but I know enough about religion to know that.

And if god is all powerful I'd hardly consider it something so trivial as babysitting anyways to actually watch over us and do what's right. It'd take no more than a fraction of a thought for him to do so.

And don't get me started on the miracle thing again, I already explained that birth is not always a miracle, there's babies born into bad situations, and what of those that recover from mental illness just to go back into it and go on a killing spree.

God spawned our race but apparently has no responsibility to it whatsoever, so in other-words god is the dead-beat dad of humanity. Nice role model >,>

"subjective perception" eh, you should try it sometime, ya might learn something. Maybe I'm wrong and god isn't doing nothing, it depends, does sitting around on his duff watching us count as doing something? Or perhaps we're on the bastard planet of a god that no longer wants anything to do with us. I mean, he's that powerful, do you really think we're his only pet project? There's also the possibility that Satan actually overpowered the original god and cast him down the fires of hell, and this entire time you've all been praying to a devil that don't give a flying crap about you apart from your undying obedience. If I had to take a religious view at all I'd put my apples in that basket before believing half the crap the bible says.

well, we all go on our own experience and what is logical to us

its not logical to me that God should be obligated to intervene in his creations choices once he gives them free will and the TOOLS to make decisions and understand consequences,,,


the only answer is to each their own,,,

As I said in a previous post I edited(but not sure if it was read) I don't ask anyone to drop their religion cold turkey, only to look at the scientific logic that's proven time and time again that god isn't all he's cracked up to be. For instance birth used to be considered a miracle very much so as the methods for bringing a child into the world were much more crude and not as many babies survived childbirth, but these days it's much more rare to have complications. So it's not so much a miracle as your teenage daughter just got knocked up, now she's stuck with a kid. lol.

Also I find it funny how my more important statements keep being entirely overlooked and avoided, like the only proof of the existence of a god is an old badly interpreted book.

Don't get me wrong, I know the feeling of being a "believer" I was hardly raised by a god freak(my mother wasn't that religious). But I did get some religion taught in school and other places, and to this day I still subconsciously believe even though I cognitively know it's all rubbish. But then that's why I mentioned brainwashing. Learn a bit about psychology and you may understand what I'm saying. Cuz otherwise I'm betting that you're interpreting that as me having a spiritual connection to god. But that is not at all what I mean.

how should one respond to a statement that the only 'proof' of existence is in a book

that requires an agreement that it is the only proof,,, people look for proof in different places

the bible is MANY different books combined into one,, so its not really just proof in 'one book',,,there are different perspectives told by different people, and in different time periods

there is the constant reiteration of others about their experiences with God

its just a matter of believing what we are told or not, applying it in life, seeing if it seems to make sense and hold true,,


most of what we learn we havent learned it from a direct experience in validating its truth,, we have learned it from books whose authors knowledge and integrity are trusted,,,


I dont know that columbus existed, I know his name has been written in books and stories imply he is real

if I do feel he existed, I dont have proof he did what he is alleged to have done because its only in 'a book' ,,,,,,,but, yet, I believe he was a real man and really did (At least some of) what he is claimed to have done

'proof' is a different standard for everyone,, most of it doesnt involve us seeing things firsthand and for ourself,,,until the suggestion is put in our head for what we see and experience to MATCH UP With at a later time,,,

msharmony after all the attempts of trying to get an answer of showing evidence of gods existing physically instead of psychologically.Can you provide a picture or other source of a god that exist,rather it be a hindu,abramic,greek,wicca,norse,pagan.Please provide something that these gods or your god exist besides faith in them.

I have no personal evidence that I can 'share' with a nonbeliever that would be 'proof' enough for them

I have no reason to feel a one who CREATED The universe and the scientists who make discoveries would be bound by the type of 'evidence' that is suiting to our mortal senses,,




WHy would there be physical proof of something that is not physical in the nature that his creations limited understanding can grasp?


why would one have pictures of ANYTHING That existed before men made pictures? and what would someone being able to 'draw' a picture show or prove , besides that they can draw

its just an empty request,,,,with little relevance to whether there is or is not a God


I have no 'proof' for you that he does exist as you have none for me that he doesnt,,,,

People do look for proof in different places, it's a well known fact that if you believe in something to a certain degree then you will find proof even if it's not really there. Bit of a mind trick that is, it's like telling yourself something enough times that you believe it. It's also how a lot of those so-called psychics got away with scamming people as long as they did, because the people wanted so badly to believe in them that they did despite them not actually revealing anything that they didn't already get told by the scam victim, or find out through simple guess work.

"the bible is MANY different books combined into one,, so its not really just proof in 'one book',,,there are different perspectives told by different people, and in different time periods"
So.... it's the ancient version of facebook, seems legit!

I know that Columbus existed because no one would make up such a boring and completely believable story, but parting the red sea, and grown men boasting about hearing voices in their heads.

Not all proof is first hand, that is correct, when someone tells me there's an ocean I believe it without having been to the ocean, when someone tells me there was a president named JFK that was shot, I believe that, but when someone tells me of a magic man in the sky and hearing voices in their heads, we'll that's just crazy talk or drug induced rants. Kinda reminds me of "lucy in the sky with diamonds" great song written by the Beatles while they were drugged up.
If you truly believe half the stuff you say then why not believe in dragons and magic and Santa Clause? Those have all been in books. What it comes down to really is, do you believe everything you read from a book?

The phrase "limited understanding" when it comes to religion is getting a bit dated. We as people understand a lot more than we did 100 years ago, negative energy, black holes, the atom. Our understanding of things may not be absolute however I believe our least evolved level of understanding comes from the inability to interact with one another, which is in big part due to culture differences which is largely backed up by beliefs in different deities.

If it were possible for us to all drop whatever religions we follow and unite under a new religion, one that drops all the god bs and gay bashing, slavery .etc and stripped down to the bare basics of right vs wrong and strong pure-hearted morals. I'm not even talking about the 10 commandments, the first 4 just revolve around god.
I mean something the size of a pamphlet that says something along the lines of "don't be a dick." but with a little more detail for those that don't understand lamens terms. If that we're possible, this world would be a much more happy and prosperous place to live.

you seem to be of the belief that 'dickdom' originated with religion

I am of the belief that it predates religion



I am of the belief that people are simple and have tunnelvision mostly about only what is immediately gratifying in their personal space and flesh,, with little consideration of how we are connected

I believe religion is one of many ways people examine and study the connection, as opposed to just living for and concerned only about self,,,,,

I consider myself one of the most brilliant minds among the living world and to address this issue.. God is loving; if you are familiar with the Bible as a "whole" you'd have some understanding of this particular piece of knowledge. Although, making an attempt to discredit the written truth is pointless as it only reveals your ignorance and lack of ineptness in understanding "Good and Evil" in general. Our minds are tainted in sin, enough said.


The Bible is a book of our history; the past, present, and the future. Remember, it has an unprecedented amount of knowledge in it, but it takes an open-mind to truly understand the context of the magnitude of this masterpiece.


-Merica A Relic
"Ultimately enthralling and entertaining"

Follow me on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RelicAmerica

Political Pull!

are you trying to make a Courtcase without Evidence?

well said...
Nobody forces anyone to believe in God. Certainly when we die we will see what to believe.

so,how come those dire Predictions when people don't believe?
Want to say that isn't Coercion at it's best?

Like Hell-Fire and Brimstone?
Lake of Fire and whatever have you?

as much as anyone else in the thread is,,,,,

dire predictions by 'whom'?

are we painting every person in every religion with the same brush,,,,?


If I built a wall at the end of the road, and warned people that driving down that road at high speeds would cause them to end up in a mangled mess with their car

perhaps that is just a legitimate warning (Being Im the one who built the wall),, not a 'dire prediction'

A person holding a gun to your head isn't forcing you to do what he says either, but if you don't BAM! There's no telling from a psychological angle whether he'd pull the trigger or not, but then the guy doesn't know if you'd cooperate without the gun in his hand. Threats to get people to do what you want is a sign of insecurity. Why would a god that does not want to force people into a religion resort to such barbaric methods to make people believe? If god was good and god was pure then he would have people follow him with no need for such threats, he would have people follow him like the children followed the pied piper. Threats are a very human form of persuasion and it's not at all like a sign that says there's a wall at the end of this road, god is the one in control of if people go to hell or heaven, it's more like a sign that says "if you go down this road I will bash your head in and burn you alive." I think the best example would be Hitler, gays were one of the groups killed by him, basically to use an argument such as "we'll it's you're decision to go to hell because you chose not to believe" would be very much the same thing as saying that people decided to be murdered by Hitlers forces because they chose to be gay. Oh yes I did just go there, I compared god to Hitler, because they're both dictators that demand undying obedience through fear mongering tactics.

Oh and "IntellectualGenius" you offered a few narrow-minded sentences to the argument, it seems to me that you're more condescending than intellectual. True intellectuals think outside of the box, your views are obviously very inside the box and your argument(if it can even be called that) is small, empty and once again just refers back to that badly misinterpreted book. Would I persuade you that dragons exist if I pointed you to a very convincing book on dragons? From the few words you've spoken here I'd put msharmony ahead of you on the genius poll.(not meant as an attack on msharmony, just at "IntellectualGenius" falling short on his claims).

GOd gave the control to us,,, he is not at the wheel unless he chooses to take it from us

which is His perogative as the creator,,,


some will continue to expect him to remove threats and harsh consequences,, rather than just doing what is in their control to avoid them in the first place,,,