. So how to grow such type of socity where are human are equal. Where the masque and charch have same wall.

It seems to be a never ending question that I certainly don't have the answer to. I do believe that the prophecies in the bible will come true and I may very well live to see it. Every generation in the past has questioned whether it was their generation to see it but really so much is happening it is hard to keep up!

Because Islam and Christainity have the same foundation it is but a matter of tolerance and understanding... with a firm faith in the Foundation... God.

And now for a MAJOR FLAW here. Life in the universe. Let us say a ship landed in the Middle East with little gray guys who sent an ambassador. Since he (they) came from another planet and are OBVIOUSLY not human what kind of response would the locals give them?

And now for a thought that sends shivers down my spine because of the possibilities of our own government idiots who capture an ambassador and vivisect him, let us say again said landing in the Middle East is met the way I think it would be met, XENOPHOBICALLY and some turban headed numbskull will shoot and kill the creature out of fear and religious dogma. Now word gets back THEIR ambassador just was killed and they send a battle fleet. And just to keep thing simple they take asteroids from our asteroid belt and keep smacking us with them until we either say uncle finally (IF THEY GIVE US A CHANCE TO SURRENDER) or they blacken the sky and kill us all.

Allah's chosen indeed! If any one religion would get us int an interstellar war it would be Islam for sure. At least most Christians would be thinking about all the BS they were taught over the years. And I also have asked Middle Easterners familiar with Islam but Christian converts about the whole idea of Humans vs. Infidels. I am not a child of Abraham. Even if I did convert I am just a second class man in the eyes of Islam. No matter what I did, no matter how perfectly I held to the Quaran I would still and always be an Infidel. You are aware there is more to life and heaven and earth than any book written by the hand of any man can cover. How can you justify what the Quaran commands you to do to your fellow man who does not embrace Allah's will? How about those of us who chose not to worship Allah or GOD for that matter? Same thing, different name...

So if I chose to walk a path alone without the guidance of anyone and live in good grace with my fellow man why am I an infidel? Why does Islam have to pit brother against brother and blind you with dreams of a heaven that does not exist? Can I get an answer here?

But men cannot commit Adultery. The Woman is the one who does. Why is it a tenant in Islam for a woman to cover up her body? Because "If a man should see a naked woman he should commit suicide." Really it is to cover up your property so other men won't lust for her. She has to cover up to protect you from sinning because she is sin incarnate. There is no male female equality in Islam or am I getting something wrong? Your religion protects women as property and not people. Can you not see that?

the mean reason of covering womend body.
To controll adultery , no space for adultery in islam, adultery is sin in islam, and sin is not limit to sex. Male and female both can do it. U say male and female not equal in islam its wrong. Here i refer a few statment of last message of MUHAMMAD.
arbic and non arbic are equal. Black and white both are equal.
Respect your women. Allah will ask from you about your women. Dont say with loud in front of your mother. Three time MUHAMMAD SAY THAT, RESPECT YOUR WOMEN, RESPECT YOUR WOMEN. RESPECT YOUR WOMEN. Etc.
In islam male responsible for home ecnomy not women. Women only to care her husbend and her child.but its not mean islam stop women from job. If a family ecnomically not good so women can do job. That why in most islamic country women dont doing work. Here some rusian girls in my nighbour. They marry with my friends . When i am asking from her how you feel here. With proud they answer me. In rusia here was burdden of job is will is family. She told me in muslim socity its good thing. No burdden on women. In islam if a husbend treat wife by bad , She can get divorce from husbend.

That is quite convenient to say yet when a woman faces criminal action as in SHE was raped she needs witnesses and if there are none she is a whore and adulteress. Granted not all Islamics like Christians are so fanatical about their religion BUT the HUGE fact here is that Respect and Lip Service Respect are two different things here. Now let us look at Saudi Arabia, Women are not allowed to drive, they are not allowed to own property, they are not allowed to have businesses. Here in America and most of the world Women are allowed Jobs, Businesses, and Property ownership.

Also it is quite convenient for Islam to force a woman to cover herself up because MEN cannot control themselves. In your world if someone raped MY daughter or wife I would cut the fuquer's hand off as well as castrating him. I would do it publicly. I would not let Islamic Justice punish MY women for some other man's lack of self control.

Also in Islam it commands a husband to strike his wife if she displeases him. Sorry but a proper family a man does not have to smack up his wife. Likewise a woman in Islam is subject to utter servitude like property. If he sells his wife for an hour to another man it is not adultery in Islam but a man making money off of his property.

And god forbid a woman should raise her voice against Islam in any way. Women barely have any rights if any in Islam. and the sick thing is some women prefer to live like that while others revile that way of life.

Now i will admit for a change someone is actually Discussing Islam because I get into these discussions and many Islamics get pissed off when I ask the same hard questions I did of Christianity and the answers and responses are the same hostile rebukes of questioning THEIR faith. It is my belief rankly if you cannot discuss your faith it is a cult or you as a believer cannot face truth! It is discussion like this that strips the lies and reveals the truth and Mohammad did not tell the truth. He twisted the will of a greater being to serve his visions of the world. Frankly the answer lies not in Islam or Christianity. We have to find the answer for ourselves and that comes with study. Education is Islam's worst enemy like it is the enemy of Christianity.

Still, adultery is a sin of the heart of man and blaming a woman for instigating it is just putting the responsibility of a man's actions on someone else. it is so easy to blame someone who cannot defend themselves especially against the "Word of God." I am not convinced women are the problem. And in Islam men won't face up to the fact they blame women a lot for things they should blame themselves for.

khan327 said:




Facts say:




EVIDENCE THAT ISLAM ALLOWS CHILDREN TO ENGAGE IN SEX BEFORE prepubescent PREPUBESCENT

Islam allows female children to be married and engaged in sex prior to their first menses (prepubescent).

Starting with the Quran:
65:4, Dawood

If you are in doubt concerning those of your wives who have ceased menstruating, know that their waiting period shall be three months. The same shall apply to those who have not menstruated. As for pregnant women, their term shall end with their confinement. God will ease the hardship of the man who fears him.



Islam allows husbands to engage in sex with their child-brides like Mohammad and Aisha:



Bukhari vol. 7, #65:

"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""


Mohammad was having sex with Aisha while she still was a child! The Quran allows this, Muhammad did this, Aisha stated this, and the scholars affirm this




AND ONE OF THE MOST DISGUSTING FACTS:

********

A Selection from "Resaleh" (Towzih ol Masael) Book of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini:
**********


I. A woman may legally belong to a man in one of two ways; by permanent marriage or temporary marriage (Siqeh). In the former, the duration of the marriage needs not to be specified; in the latter, it must be stipulated, for example, that it is for a period of an hour, a day, a month, a year, or more.

II. A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not committed a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister.

III. A father or a paternal grandfather has the right to marry off a child who is insane or has not reached puberty by acting as her representative. The child may not annul such a marriage after reaching puberty or regaining her sanity, unless the marriage is to her manifest disadvantage.

IV. Any girl who is of age, that is, capable of understanding what is in her own best interest, if she wishes to get married and is a virgin, must procure the authorization of her father or paternal grandfather. The permission of her mother or brother is not required.

V. If a wife finds out after the marriage that her husband is suffering from mental illness, that he is a castrate, impotent, or has had his testicles excised, she may apply for annulment of her marriage.

VI. A marriage is annulled if a man finds that his wife is afflicted with one of the seven following disabilities:

1. madness
2. leprosy
3. eczema
4. blindness
5. paralysis with aftereffects
6. malformation of the urinary and genital tracts
7. malformation of the genital-tract and rectum through conjoining thereof, or vaginal malformation making Coitus impossible.

VII. If a wife has her marriage annulled because her husband is unable to have sexual relations with her either vaginally or anally, he must pay her as damages one-half of her Mehriyeh (her wedding prize) specified in the marriage contract. If the husband or wife annuls the marriage for any of the above-mentioned reasons, the man owes nothing to the woman if they have had sexual relations together; if they had not, then he must pay her the full amount of the dowry.

VIII. A Muslim woman may not marry a non-Muslim man; nor may a Muslim man marry a non-Muslim woman in continuing marriage, but he may take a Jewish or Christian woman in temporary marriage.

IX. If a man who has married a girl who has not reached puberty, possesses her sexually before her ninth birthday, inflicting trauma upon her, he has no right to repeat such an act with her.

X. A man who has contracted a continuing marriage may not leave his wife for so long a time as to allow her to question the validity of the marriage; however, he is not obligated to spend one night out of every four with her.

XI. A husband must have sexual relations with his wife at least once in every four months.

XII. A woman who has been temporarily married in exchange for a previously established dowry has no right to demand that her daily expenses be paid by her husband, even when she becomes pregnant.

XIII. A temporary marriage (Siqeh), even though only one of convenience, is nevertheless legal.

XIV. A man must not abstain from having sexual relations with his temporary wife for more than four months.

XV. A woman who has contracted a continuing marriage does not have the right to go out of the house without her husband's permission; she must remain at his disposal for the fulfillment of any one of his desires, and may not refuse herself to him except for a religiously valid reason. If she is totally submissive to him, the husband must provide her with her food, clothing, and lodging, whether or not he has the means to do so.

XVI. A woman who refuses herself to her husband is guilty, and may not demand from him food, clothing, lodging, or any later sexual relations; however, she retains the right to be paid damages if she is repudiated.

XVII. If a father (or paternal grandfather) marries off his daughter (or granddaughter) in her absence without knowing for a certainty that she is alive, the marriage becomes null and void as soon as it is established that she was dead at the time of the marriage.

XVIII. To look upon the face and hair of a girl who has not reached puberty, if it is done without intention of enjoyment thereof, and if one is not afraid of succumbing to temptation, may be tolerated. It is however recommended that one not look upon her belly or thighs, which must remain covered.

XIX. To look upon the faces and hands of Jewish or Christian women, if this is not done with intention of enjoyment thereof, and if one does not fear temptation, is tolerated.

XX. A woman must hide her body and her hair from the eyes of men. It is highly recommended that she also hide them from those of pre puberty boys, if she suspects that they may look upon her with lust.

XXI. A woman who becomes pregnant as a result of adultery must not have an abortion.
If a man commits adultery with an unmarried woman, and subsequently marries her, the child born of that marriage will be a bastard unless the parents can be sure it was conceived after they were married.

XXII. If a man is called upon, for medical reasons, to look upon a woman other than his wife and to touch her body, he is permitted to do so, but if he can give such care by only looking at the body he must not touch it, and if he can give it by only touching, he must not look at it.

XXIII. A child born of an adulterous father is legitimate.

XXIV. The best person to breast-feed a newborn baby is its own mother. It is preferable that she does not ask to be paid for such service, but that her husband pay her for it of his own free will. If the sum the mother asks for is greater than that charged by a wet nurse, the husband is free to take the child from its mother and turn it over to the wet nurse.

XXV. A man who repudiates his wife must be of sound mind and past the age of puberty. He must do so of his own free will and without any constraint; therefore, if the formula for divorce is spoken in jest the marriage is not annulled.

XXVI. A woman temporarily married, say, for a month or a year, has her marriage automatically annulled at the end of that time, or at any other time when the husband releases her from the balance of her engagement. It is not necessary for this that there be any witnesses, or that the woman have had her period.

XXVII. A woman who has not yet reached the age of nine or a menopausal woman may remarry immediately after divorce, without waiting the hundred days that are otherwise required.

XXVIII. A woman who has had her ninth birthday, or who has not yet entered menopause, must wait for three menstrual periods after her divorce before being allowed to remarry. If a woman who has not reached her ninth birthday or who has not entered menopause gets temporarily married, she must, at the end of the contract or when the husband has released her from part of it, wait two menstrual periods or forty-five days before marrying again.

XXIX. If the father or paternal grandfather of a boy has him marry a woman for a temporary marriage, he may prematurely cancel it in the boy's interest, even if the marriage was contracted before the boy reached the age of puberty. If for example, a fourteen-year-old boy has been married off to a woman for a period of two years, they may return her freedom to the woman before this time has run its course; but a continuing marriage cannot be broken in this way.

XXX. If a man repudiates his wife without informing her of it, and continues to meet her expenses for a period of, say, a year, and at the end of that time informs her that he got a divorce a year earlier and shows her proof of it, he may require that she return to him anything he has bought or given her during that time, provided that she has not used it up or consumed it, in which case he cannot demand its return.

XXXI. If a child dies within the mother's womb and it is a danger to her life to leave it there, it must be extracted in the easiest way possible; it can if it needs to be cut into pieces; this should be done by the woman's husband or a midwife.

XXXII. A woman who wishes to pursue her studies toward the end of being able to earn her living through respectable work, and who has a male teacher, may do so if she keeps her face covered and has no contact with men; but if that is inevitable, and religious and moral tenets are thus undermined, she must give up her studies. Girls and boys who attend coeducational classes in grammar schools, high schools, universities, or other teaching establishments, and who, in order to legalize such a situation, wish to contract a temporary marriage may do so without the permission of their fathers. The same applies if the boy and girl are in love but hesitate to ask for such permission.








also about sodomy and pervert sex:

A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village, but selling the meat to a neighbouring village is reasonable.

If one commits the act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrement become impure and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed as quickly as possible and burned.

Wine and all intoxicating beverages are impure, but opium and hashish are not.

If a man sodomises the son, brother, or father of his wife after their marriage, the marriage remains valid.

During sexual intercourse, if the penis enters a woman's vagina or a man's anus, fully or only as far as the circumcision ring, both partners become impure, even if they have not reached puberty; they must consequently perform ablutions.





For more google

and probably get killed for the effort!

Computer hiccup...

My bad.

Chocolina...

you posted this.

"Islam allows female children to be married and engaged in sex prior to their first menses (prepubescent).

Starting with the Quran:
65:4, Dawood

If you are in doubt concerning those of your wives who have ceased menstruating, know that their waiting period shall be three months. The same shall apply to those who have not menstruated. As for pregnant women, their term shall end with their confinement. God will ease the hardship of the man who fears him. "The same shall apply to those who have not menstruated.

Of a certanity the begining sentance is a false asumption of the quote from the Book of the Rock of Allah.

Any man that reads what is written in your quote and believes it to 'allow' the taking of a child is but attributing his own idle fancy upon the Word... (EDIT * specifically this portion..."The same shall apply to those who have not menstruated." This does not deal with CHILDREN but rather with the woman that is incapable of conception... DUH!)



As for those postings that dealt with other books... They are not the Word of Allah but rather the idle imaginings of men.

Such as 3/4s of the Bible too!

aye...

and the Bagav-i-gita also.

The older the House built upon the Foundation of God... The more dust is in the rafters.

You give reference of aytullah khaimani. The authour of this book is SHIA and shia is non muslim. If you read my preivious post i explain it. In case of ashia. And muhammad it was the order of allah... So its enough.
Marrige before puberity is not allowed in islam. Dont give reference of shia book, shia is not muslim. And shia is not representive of islam.

That is quite convenient to say yet when a woman faces criminal action as in SHE was raped she needs witnesses and if there are none she is a whore and adulteress. Granted not all Islamics like Christians are so fanatical about their religion BUT the HUGE fact here is that Respect and Lip Service Respect are two different things here. Now let us look at Saudi Arabia, Women are not allowed to drive, they are not allowed to own property, they are not allowed to have businesses. Here in America and most of the world Women are allowed Jobs, Businesses, and Property ownership.
Also it is quite convenient for Islam to force a woman to cover herself up because MEN cannot control themselves. In your world if someone raped MY daughter or wife I would cut the fuquer's hand off as well as castrating him. I would do it publicly. I would not let Islamic Justice punish MY women for some other man's lack of self control.
Also in Islam it commands a husband to strike his wife if she displeases him. Sorry but a proper family a man does not have to smack up his wife. Likewise a woman in Islam is subject to utter servitude like property. If he sells his wife for an hour to another man it is not adultery in Islam but a man making money off of his property.
And god forbid a woman should raise her voice against Islam in any way. Women barely have any rights if any in Islam. and the sick thing is some women prefer to live like that while others revile that way of life.
Now i will admit for a change someone is actually Discussing Islam because I get into these discussions and many Islamics get pissed off when I ask the same hard questions I did of Christianity and the answers and responses are the same hostile rebukes of questioning THEIR faith. It is my belief rankly if yo.
Lets me know from wher you read these all ****. I read new thing from you in islam. What are u saying its not a islam. Lets come to matter. In case of rape. If witness are not present. So alternate option are present to provide justic to the women. Women can do business. Women are allowed for owen property. Khudija the wife of muhammad she was a business women. Women can do business, can keep owen properity but , under islamc law. If a women doesnt cover her body, these are the presdisposing facotor of adultary, and adultry is sin in islam, and sin is not limit to sex. Where you read it, in islam wife is the properity of husbend and he can sell his wife. Even islam force that, man responsible for home ecnomy and if a husbend mistreat his wife. So she can get divorce. She is free for decision . And about education . Islam say get education from mother arm till to death. Get education even if you go to china for education. Getting education is the deuty of every muslim man and women. Muhammad order it 1400 years ago, when education word are not present in europe and america.

AdventureBegins,


Explain all that to the women and kids there !
Explain what is 'holy' a kid 6 y old to be a kid-bride to 56 old man Mohammad.
Today that has a name - pedophilia , still 'holy' in their muslim counties like Iran .

And go and say the same to someone of them and you gonna be killed in the most cruel way ..

So don't play religious tolerance with such dangerous ideas ,please or you forget in the name of Allah what happen/ed ?
Or maybe you forget Sep, 11th ?

Quran is a holy book ...

I have no control over another mans intrepretation of Islam.

Indeed many of them would attempt to kill me for many of the things I have said. (They lay their own hatred upon the Fragrance of Allah that is within the Book of his Prophet Mohammad).

Quran is indeed a holy book...

I have read it and find many Gems of Brilliance in its sweet fragrance...

I can not say the same for the intrepretions placed upon it by men that have been turned aside from Allah by hatred or vain imaginings.
(much the same as the Word of Christ).

So if he loved us all then why do nonchristians go to hell and suffer eternal damnation for not accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior?

haha

FACTS


Mohammad / 570 - 632 AD/
he was illiterate

==========================


EUROPE:


Thales
(636-546)
Greek philosopher,historiographer

Anaximander of Miletus (c. 611 - c. 547 B.C.)
the first map of the world

Archimedes of Syracuse (c.287 - c.212 B.C.),
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Herodotus (c. 484-425 B.C.)
is the first historian proper



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Roman philosopher


Aristotle (384 BC – 322 BC/
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Pythagoras [570 BC - 470BC]
philosopher, mathematician


Socrates
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Greek philosopher

Democritus
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Greek philosopher

Proclus
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Epictetus
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Roman philosopher



Catullus (c. 84 - 54 c. B.C.)
Latin poet

Ovid (43 B.C. - A.D. 17)
was a prolific Roman poet whose
writing influenced Chaucer, Shakespeare,
Dante, and Milton.



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The older the House that is built upon the Foundation of God... The more dust one finds in the rafters.