Come now.
I'm prepared to debate this.
Where do we start?
The formation of the Republican Party (1854)?
The Civil Rights bill and the voting rights a year later?
Or,
The past elections in which we elected our first black President?

I game to start anywhere you want.
Your choice.

Circumstances and motivations have changed many times over time.
Where should we start?

It seems someone is stuck on the civil rights era. Bllaming the Democrats as racists.
I can show this is not the case.
Ready?
Here goes.

The Passage, 1964!

Totals are in "Yea-Nay" format:

The original House version: 290-130 (69%-31%)
Cloture in the Senate: 71-29 (71%-29%)
The Senate version: 73-27 (73%-27%)
The Senate version, as voted on by the House: 289-126 (70%-30%)

Break it down by party?

The original House version:

Democratic Party: 152-96 (61%-39%)
Republican Party: 138-34 (80%-20%)


Cloture in the Senate:

Democratic Party: 44-23 (66%-34%)
Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)

Now wait a minute. Things are not exactly how they appear.

Yes i am blaming democrats as racist! Pointing the finger directly at there party platform and they are still racist bigots today only against white people! But i have to go, so write your opposition to what i have said and i will return! Keep in mind my point is about written laws and party platform, racists are in both parties yes, but lets refer to actual laws written by dems and reps. lets refer to the actual written platform of any era. hhhmmmm lets see how it goes. you will find yes reps vote against racist laws against whites and balcks and some for it. but the creation of racist laws you will find is a complete democrat creation in the majority by far!

The bill was refined!

The Senate version:

Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%-31%)
Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)

The Senate version, voted on by the House:

Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%)
Republican Party: 136-35 (80%-20%)

Here's the kicker.

You see not all southerners were Democrats.
Most, but some were Republicans.

Not all southern Democrats voted against the bill, but almost all southern Republicans did.

Also, a grater number of Northern Republicans voted against the civil rights bill than did Northern Democrats.

Let's look at that.

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7%-93%)
Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0%-100%)
Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94%-6%)
Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85%-15%)
The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5%-95%) (only Senator Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)
Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0%-100%) (this was Senator John Tower of Texas)
Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98%-2%) (only Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia opposed the measure)
Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84%-16%) (Senators Barry Goldwater of Arizona, Bourke Hickenlooper of Iowa, Edwin L. Mechem of New Mexico, Milward L. Simpson of Wyoming, and Norris H. Cotton of New Hampshire opposed the measure)

All in all, I think I just proved the issue had nothing to do with political parties.
It was defined more by region.

I would really like to get to the current air, but lets go back to one I'm sure you think you, a Republican, can win.
The Civil war!

Me, an Independent, doesn't think so!

I'll let you start!

Okay let me state my position! I am no independent i am a conservative without a party! The issue i wanted to bring to light is your exact point just slightly differing. I completely understand the difference between racism and politics and understand the regions made a large difference. The "key" hear is dems portray themselves as innocent and try and wash thier hands of their racist ties! What a democrat voted or a republican voted has little to do with it because that is a single entity and why do you change the debate when i have posted plenty in the original post for you to argue against! THE GOP was founded on the abolishment of slavery and you will find it in the presidential platform along with a vice president that was a racist bigot by the way also a democrat! The civil rights movement was by in large a republican fight going back far before kennedy and unfair for the man to take credit for it. After all once the Democrats did not oppose it so aggresively we where able to get it thru! Ofcourse one republican may be a republican mainly because they beleive in life and not abortion and the list of party affilitions are endless! The key here is in my opinion the Democrats have far more blood on there hands! I know you want to flip the debate to say "monopoly" but thats ridiculous! The civil rigts bill of 1964 was a small consession compared to what the democrats imposed upon blacks for centuries before that! Ofcourse republican politicians in the south voted against civil rights legislation they are slimeball politicians and feared losing their seat! Lets stick to actual wrtten law, who wrote it? What did their actual party platform state? Lets actually read the bill in it's entirety and conclude why some opposed it? Goldwater has a clear reason why he objected and supported earlier legislation that began with republicans!.. The thought Kennedy started civil rights is just so unfair to the ones that fought the fight agianst all odds when he had actual political will and the ones before him did not! I place the majority of blame squarely in the democrats arena! I place the credit of equal rights mostly to the republicans. now get your scale and lets see, but keep to written law good or bad and thats what really matters action not words!

I wont deny, racists have been democrats and republicans. Democrats do not have a clean slate but their most recent efforts, I think, are more in line with the impoverished and middle class which would be most of the black community.


The elders had a saying,,'funny when people tell you to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, but dont allow you boots..."

That is how the republican platform comes off to me, their belief that anyone rises up in a vacuum all of their own doing is one that I philisophically disagree with and one that keeps me with the democratic party so far.

Democrat President John F. Kennedy is lauded as a proponent of civil rights. However, Kennedy voted against the 1957 Civil Rights Act while he was a senator. Republican legislation 7 years prior to 1964!

Does this mean Kennedy was a racist? Democrats do not deserve credit for civil right sorry! Nor does kennedy deserve credit for all the hard work, a lot of good politicians deserve credit and yes many of them where republicans.

I didn't change the debate!

And the GOP wasn't founded on the abolition of slavery.
They may claim that but I can offer an intelligent argument to disprove their claim.

As far as you saying,

The "key" hear is dems portray themselves as innocent and try and wash thier hands of their racist ties! What a democrat voted or a republican voted has little to do with it because that is a single entity.

I just showed you more Dems voted for the civil rights bill than Republicans. It had nothing to do with party affiliation at all.
It was a regional difference.
Therefore I did not change the debate. I disproved part of your accusation to portray the false impression that the Democrat party is racist.

If you'll continue the discussion I'll prove to you the other points you so adamantly claim are just as bogus.

Where do you want to start? The civil war or the 2008 elections?

okay start the debate on my original post debunk as you said you could. good luck! lol!

"THE" civil rights bill?? it is a grain of sand in an ocean!

http://cprr.org/Museum/Ephemera/Republican_Platform_1860.html


Here sir is an actual document from the year 1860! I hope your not as the rest and just continue to twist and twist history to fit their opinion. This document written in 1860 an authentic document stating the party platform is actual! The document is a defined beleif of the intent of the republican party! you will note the "key" most language in the forefront of the documnet! What men did, said, and reversed course based on politics is not the point here! This is what the people who voted republican beleived to be the case! people like me and if politicians dont keep their promises it is quite different is it not! Would you like me to find the democrat platform? Oh I can and it will sicken your stomach it is so filled with hate and racism! so debunk this sir!

It's impossible to have an intelligent debate on such an abbreviated post with so many misrepresented ideas as the op post.
Not in a post 1000 times as long.

The length and brevity of the post is evidence of it's inaccuracy and bias content.

Let's start with 1854,

The Republican party was founded in an attempt to break a series of ties within congress. Not slavery, but one more aligned with the Industrial North's attempts to gain Fed funding for road, bridge, and dock improvements. Improvements the Agricultural south thought was a waste of Fed taxes and sure to cause tax increases among all Americans. Yet funding that did not benefit the south.

The impression you get is an excuse they used to gain congressional members to win the funding.

The Civil War was not about slavery. It was about states rights and equal representation in Washington and equal use of Fed taxes.

yes i clearly understand your version of history is far more accurate than the documented evidence i understand sir! its cool there is no point in furthering the discussion without sourceing your infromation!

There never would have been a Civil War, as most southern states didn't secede from the Union until Fed troops attacked Ft Sumpter.

The North did not outlaw slavery at the beginning of the civil war.
The emancipation proclamation wasnt until 1863, two years into the war.
It wasn't until 1865, when the war was over, that slavery was abolished.
If the war was about slavery why did it take the North so long?

Sources?
My education. If you doubt it then explain on which point and I'll try to help.
Of course I won't be able to and be as brief as your opening post.

I guess from your attitude that I won that argument.
So are you ready to discuss the 2008 Presidential elections?

I think you'll be surprise to find out the states that supported McCain are a majority of southern states whose representation is now predominately republican!