I'm glad to see some ordinary scientific researchers are getting into this kind of study.

But they should also study the different levels of human consciousness or meditation etc.

What they call a "disorder" is simply what Robert Monroe calls conscious awareness, level 10.

The mind is awake and the body is asleep. The "paralyzed" condition is the same thing that happens to you when you are asleep and dreaming ~ it is to prevent you from sleep walking. If that was not functioning properly, you would be sleep walking and talking every time you dreamed. It is not really a disorder, it is a state of consciousness.

This stage of awareness allows you to see and hear things others can't, or see and hear what is going on around you when your body seems to be sound asleep. It is the stage just before out of body "floating" experience.

JB

This might help with the "electrical" aspect of the brain and why we might possibly experience some of these feelings and sensations. Of course you could look all this up on your own. There is a lot of information available but far fewer medical explanations. You are correct in that. I dont know why there isn't more research done but probably, like everything else, funding and clinical trials are expensive and very often take years to complete. I had a friend who was involved in one to test a new drug for FDA approval and it went on for 5 years.

“It is highly improbable that what these individuals claim to have experienced i.e. “seeing the bright light” or “seeing dead family members” is actually realistic. When a physical body dies, the heart ceases to pump blood to the brain hence the brain ceases to receive oxygen and then literally begins to suffocate. The brain under such duress will function for a while before it completely “dies”; this is one of the reasons that people can be brought back to life by having their heart electrically pumped back into action. While the brain is still “alive” it is under immense duress from the lack of oxygen and is subject to fairly bizarre phenomena; it is known that a lack of oxygen to the brain produces a sense of “transcendence” and that one will see a world of explicit bright light, ask anyone that has been on one of those space shuttle force simulators. After death there is ample evidence to believe that existence of self ceases to be. Consciousness seems to be intrinsically bound to the physical realm through the functioning of the brain, after death the brain will cease functioning and will decay altogether consciousness following suit. There can be no afterlife with out a physical body based on the current evidence and research produced by modern science through fields of psychology, physiology, and neuroscience. In short the brain will continue to run for a while after the heart has ceased pumping blood through the body; much like when you cut off a large electronic item quickly and the electric charge remaining within the component runs the item for a short time before finally running out of electricity and shutting down completely. So the mind still runs for a time after immediate death, however, any claim made by the individual after such an occurrence that they saw the bright lights of heaven or their dead loved ones should be considered the delirious superstition being ascribed to the trauma of a suffocating and dying brain.”

Yes there is a lot of information available about a lot of things and you can probably always find some of it to support what you tend towards believing, no matter what you believe.

I agree that the entire body is "electrical" and organic, but that tells us very little about the nature of consciousness.

We experience "senses" in the physical world because we have been equipped with sensors. We feel with our skin, smell with our nose, perceive objects with our eyes, hear sounds with our ears, taste food with our tongue. These sensors are natural and a part of how we function in the physical world. And yet they are really quite amazing. But they are NOT a "disorder."

But when we discover another sense, a sixth sense, or some other state of awareness or a way to sense or see things in a different way, some scientist calls it a "disorder."

That is plain ignorant.

I'm not saying that there are not plenty of "disorders" and "malfunctions" going on everywhere, but if you completely discount the spiritual aspect of the nature of existence or humanity you are limiting yourself to a very narrow view of reality.

The quote you posted:



Specifically this statement:

"After death there is ample evidence to believe that existence of self ceases to be. Consciousness seems to be intrinsically bound to the physical realm through the functioning of the brain, after death the brain will cease functioning and will decay altogether consciousness following suit. There can be no afterlife with out a physical body based on the current evidence and research produced by modern science through fields of psychology, physiology, and neuroscience."


Oh really? Has someone proven that there is no afterlife? Has someone proven that there are no other dimensions of reality? Has someone finally solved all the riddle of life and death? I don't think so..

Any statement beginning with "...there is ample evidence to believe...." can be true for vertually any belief.

This statement just happens to have been made by a person who is probably an atheist and who probably believes what he is saying.

I see a statement of believe in the above paragraph, but I do not seen any evidence or any reference to any particular evidence or study that can be googled. It's just a bunch of basic blah blah blah that has no scientific support.

Lack of evidence for something is not evidence. You cannot have any physical evidence for something that is not physical.

JB

JB I think you are missing the point here. I never said THIS was it and there were no other alternatives. However, I did state that there are other plausible explanations for why people seem to very often report the same or very similar claims of feeling elation, warmth, floating, lights and tunnels. It is my opinion that there can be other explanations for this recurrent phenomena. They aren't always the most fun or pretty but if I simply closed myself off to them, I would consider that irresponsible and a disservice to myself. That just how I feel about it but you dont have to agree.

I am very aware of these alternative explanations and I have found them to be extremely lacking in scientific validity so I have long since moved on to other alternatives. I am not looking for a simple answer that does not hold up under close examination, which is what these kinds of answer are.

I seek the deep truths of the nature of reality and existence and I have found that these kinds of explanations are nothing more than pacifiers for closed minds. They are for people who don't want to think outside the box.

Just my opinion.

If I "missed the point" feel free to be blunt and get to the point. I realize you don't like the Christian perspective of things, but you seem to be floundering in your own personal lack of a belief system.

whoa.......everyone writes alot of stuff........sorry i didnt read it.......i think God is in all of us..........so stop all that stuff......wait..let me take off my scull wring...i still mean that ..........

Stop what exactly?

Im not sure what has brought this attack on but it is quite uncalled for as I have always been friendly and accepting of you and your various views on forum JB. Im clearly sensing some other motivation and it is not directly related to the subject matter. If you would like to come clean then quit beating around the bush and get to it.

Why not show me your decades worth of conclusive evidence to support your theories to be absolutely infallible? The same research that I should now blindly accept and support as irrefutable fact. These doctors are of course only basing their findings in reading a couple books and not years of medical school and training. None of them have dedicated their lives to the course of a better understanding or a clearer picture of the human brain and how it functions.Since you have been successful in offending me, you might as well attack all of medical science while you are at it. You seem so utterly sure that my position or point of view is so totally ungrounded and off base While you are at it, start with your Draconian race and all that jazz. If I am the one being so "closed minded" as you put it , then wouldn't you at least be able to see a possible medical theory as a plausible or viable explanation for consideration rather than ONLY your own opinions? I think you need to take a step back and examine your own motivations for having to take comfort in your explanation for what might possibly account for some of these situations to the exclusion of ANY other possible explanation.

I have never even discussed nor revealed my own belief system on this forum. I do not do so because I feel it is irrelevant and should not effect my ability to debate any of these related religious topics. Having you sit there and demand that I now expose this personal information, namely, what I believe occurs postmortem is uncalled for. For some reason, you seem to be lingering under the incorrect assertion that I am completely discounting the spiritual realm or forces that might be involved during the course of a NDE. Absolutely not. I told you that I wish to take into account ALL viable conclusions that have been drawn based on this research. I realize that you seem to feel that medical science is a crock and you have now chosen to dismiss all related information. That is your choice and your right. But dont presume to tell me that I MUST also discount this same information because I unlike yourself, am able to appreciate it for what it is and that it is a viable resource at my disposal.

stop goin on and on.........sorry i dont belong here........

Scotty its not as if we are going to run out of "writing space" so dont worry about it.

What attack?

You posted quotes from someone else about what they think about the subject (who sounds like an atheist with no scientific support behind his or her statments.)

I don't really want their opinions or the unscientific opinions of some unknown person. I'm not interested. But if you are going to post that stuff making those statements, I am interested in any real evidence involved with the statement, who ever made it.

The opinions of complete strangers are of no interest to me.

You should not post things if you don't agree with them. You cannot 'debate' something if you have no point of view. And it is rather pointless I would think.



I don't think I called you "closed minded" since you disclaimed the information that you posted as not being yours or your opinion. So I have no way of knowing if you are "closed minded" or not because you refuse to reveal your personal belief or point.

By your above response your true colors are showing. You have taken a defensive posture because you believe you are being attacked.



No it is not "uncalled for." You have been calling for it for a long time. It is time for you to come out from behind your curtain and reveal your agenda and your beliefs otherwise I have to assume that all you want to do is engage in useless debate taking no responsibility for what you post and just conclude that you don't know what you believe or are afraid to show your true face and express your true beliefs.




I have never told you that you MUST do anything, and I have not asserted or assumed anything about you. I simply told you what I thought of your post which contained no real information about scientific study, it only contained some unknown person's opinion. It was not even your opinion.

And since you refuse to reveal your agenda or belief or position, or even your opinion then it is pointless to engage you in communication.

JB

What attack? Are you insane? Telling me that I am "floundering" in my beliefs. What does that have to do with anything exactly? I can't even remember the last time I heard a more agenda driven statement if you want to know the truth.

You asked me to present supportive evidence that might be of assistance in providing a possible explanation for the recurring testimonials of NDE experience involving feelings of elation, warmth, bright lights (strobe or other) and shining or illuminated tunnels. You essentially challenged me and I can only assume were somewhat surprised to learn that medical science might indeed have a plausible theory for some of these occurrences, albeit not a "JB approved" endorsement.

No. You dont seem to understand or be able to truly grasp the concept of having an "open mind". I can clearly sit here and debate the quality or validity of so-called irrefutable facts when someone makes a claim to the effect of "I have had a near death experience and I saw a bright light." Whether or not I am in total agreement with that premise, I can certainly offer supportive evidence to the contrary or what might constitute a plausible explanation posed by medical science. Im not sure what is so difficult for you to understand in that respect. Just because I am leaving myself open to ALL possible outcomes, does not very well mean that I can not debate the subject matter from the standpoint of offering supportive evidence for other theories.

It is you that refuses to reveal your true agenda as it relates to this sudden attack and probing investigation into my personal belief system. I've got news for you. Those issues are my own and I reveal them to whom I choose to reveal them to and at the appropriate moment in time. I will not simply be bullied by anonymous strangers on the internet thank you. That is my business and Im not sure that it would matter what religion or spirituality nor perspective a doctor or research investigator who has conducted analysis in this particular field held either. Would you badger them for their background as it related to their own personal beliefs and spirituality also? Its not relevant to this discussion but I suppose you would choose to throw their perspective completely out the door if they told you that they did not find that germane to their course of investigative study in the realm of NDE.

Well it sounds to me that you DO in fact want me to entertain ONLY your thoughts and feelings as it relates to this matter. The conclusion you have drawn is that you simply can not debate ANY topic with me because you do not know who I am or the position I might take at any given moment as to how it relates to my personal belief structure. So I guess that means you can only debate on this forum with those who choose to announce and define themselves in a conceptualized box of their own design? Well good luck there. You wont be debating with me again any time soon if thats the case. Its too bad because I really liked you and enjoyed your observations if only because they were so unique and genuine. Im sad to say, you can not see the same in mine simply because they are a little more grounded and based in the realm of scientific research and academia and are not confined nor limited to any one spiritual doctrine.

medical science really has their heads up their @sses though. Doctors and medical scientist agenda is to not cure anything, no money in that, they keep giving pills to keep you coming back with even more symptoms and side effects so that they can give you even more pills for that. The good old FDA and our doctors are mainly concerned with more meds and money.

And don't even get me started on the ones that study the mind, they need to be snakebit, shot and then hung.

Just had to add that about medical science, be they physicians or scientist. Yep, i am biased against them.

Most of their studies is just crap they write down to keep their funding coming in.

maybe that was a tad off topic, medical science has been referred to.

I'm just ticked at doctors and medicine and their science these days.

Yeah I expect you two to simply agree and form a "tag team". We have all seen this occur on forum plenty of times. Not to mention that JB has made it abundantly clear to me that she is unable to debate simply because I choose not to reveal my personal beliefs or spirituality on forum. Since she cant successfully "box" or compartmentalize me of being this or that designation, I am simply not worth her time to address. In that case, there is no real point adding any more to this topic. You two feel free to agree with one another all you want and I wont disrupt you with any conflicting or outside opinions or speculation as to other possible explanations. Good day.

"No it is not "uncalled for." You have been calling for it for a long time. It is time for you to come out from behind your curtain and reveal your agenda and your beliefs otherwise I have to assume that all you want to do is engage in useless debate taking no responsibility for what you post and just conclude that you don't know what you believe or are afraid to show your true face and express your true beliefs." JB

Not all of us have clear cut agendas like yourself. I honestly do enjoy discussion of various topics as I have told you in the past. Have you forgotten? And I think we are ALL engaging ourselves in "useless debate" here aren't we? Unless you assume that your own posts are somehow glowing in their "resounding, irrefutable truth and wisdom." The rest of us are simply "throwing it out there" and having a little conversation. I dont presume to be anything Im not.

I wouldn't say we are a tag team, I don't even know if she likes me period, we disagree and at times agree.

besides, i was just venting on medicine and science, thought i explained that.

if you will recall, i believe i have occaisionally even agreed with something you have said. Everyone has something to contribute, this is a pool for thoughts is it not.

Just so you are aware sharp you can edit your posts for a period of time after you fire them off. I notice you seem to always post again but only one sentence. Maybe you like doing that which is fine but Im just letting you know you can hit that edit and add a thought if need be however the site sets a time limit on how long you can edit retroactively. .

Krimsa,

I did not see any real evidence in your post. All you posted was someone else's opinion. I don't care about the opinions of unknown strangers.

I saw no specific scientific studies or statements in that post, only vague generalities of which I am well aware of. They do not answer all of my questions, so I have to keep looking.

And yes, they don't live up of my "approved" endorsement.

JB