I'm playing the Billy Goat Gruff game, but there appears to be no bridge.

Their tests were over complicated. It is simple, can you see something hidden out of your sight,or not?

Its black and white, either it can be done or not.

It appears that way....


Gotta love the ole can't see, can touch it, then it don't exist line of argument...

How did Christ get dragged into this?

You still haven't answered the question.

What exactly is it that you read that you consider to be "hogwash"?

Just because you ask a question doesnt mean that i have to answer it does it?

Although i did anyway, i said IT WAS THE TESTS THAT WERE OVER COMPLICATED.

Im so sorry it wasnt the answer you were looking for.

Over complicated? Usually people will take the apposing view.

I suspect they have to be "complicated" to pass scientific scrutiny. Science does tend to over complicate things, but if they don't people scream that they are over simplified and not valid.

You can't please everyone.

Why do people have to mix religion with things??? Why does it have to be a religious experience or satanic experience???? It is what it is.......unexplainable

1) You're absolutely right, it doesn't.
2) The question included the word "exactly". Your alleged answer could not be considered "exact" in any way shape or form.
3) I'm sorry you never answered it at all.

And that finishes off my supply of troll food so I am going to have to stop feeding you.

Lol! Who has been feeding who? You are the one that believes he can see around corners. I am the one not taking your pointless questions seriously and answering them 'exactly'. I do have better things to do than spend time giving you complete answers. The dog needs de-worming for a start.

Excuse me? Where are we mixing religion with any of this? Huh?

Who mentioned Satan or Satanic? Did I miss a post?

We are discussing out of body experiences and remote viewing. Did I miss something?

These are possible spiritual experiences. They have nothing to do with religion or Satan.

JB

Dan99, I think you need to re-read my post on page 6. You seem to be confusing two very different things: out of body experiences and remote viewing.

You keep asking for proof and wanting people to read an answer or view some object not in their field of view, etc. What you are asking people to do is called remote viewing, not an out of body experience.

Remote viewing is skill which requires discipline and hard training on part of the individual. It is not something anyone can simply "do." Making demands of people on here to view something remotely is absurd unless they claim to be a remote viewer.

Otherwise, this is a thread about out of body experiences, stay on topic please.

Yeah i have had out of body experiences back when i was suicidal and would cut myself. Every time i started cutting i would go out of body, and watch myself in horror as that creature kept hurting my body. And once it was over i would go back to my body and feel the sting and pain of what i just did.

On a side note, i don't do that kinda crap anymore

WanderingSoul - A little friendly advice from someone who's been there and done that - read these, then reexamine the entire thread:
http://larcho.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/the-larch-guide-on-how-to-spot-a-forum-troll/
http://curezone.com/forums/troll.asp

Best of luck to you.

it's not unexplainable just unverifiable ..since anyone can make claims of being out of body or being engage in remote viewing it is only logical to ask certain question in an attempt to seperate the delusion from the reality and that requires accurate information from the person or persons that claim to have or had these types of experiences

but to come under attack or claimers making reference to trollism because of questions being asked in a debating forum suggest a hint of deception on the claimer's behalf

I'm sure that those that write such books on out of body experience or remote viewing seek accurate information to place in their books and those that read such books expect the information to be accurate

but if what going on in this disccusion is any indication of the accuracy of these type of books is a wonder that they should be regarded as anything more than an interview with a delusion

I had been practicing the creative techniques for getting out of my body for a few months and my problem was that I would return to my body or "wake up" from a trip out of my body and I would not remember where I had been. All I remembered was the coming and going, the getting out and returning.

Once I had returned and I remember the thought...Gee what if I can't get back in my body? I was lying in a reclining position on my back and my astral body was lying in the same position just above my body. Then I felt myself sink down into the physical body. I was relieved.... I remember thinking... "Okay, I'm in!"

It is at this point that you are in a state of consciousness that Robert Monroe calls "level 10" where your physical body is still asleep, but you are totally awake in your astral form. This state is often called "sleep paralysis" by some, because when you try to move your physical body, you can't move it because you are not physically awake.

It is also the state that some martial artists learn to accomplish so that they can physically sleep while at the same time be aware of anyone who sneaks up on them.

This condition (Sleep paralysis or being aware while asleep) is what keeps you from sleep walking while you are having a dream. It somehow disconnects your physical brain from your thinking process, so that when you move about in your dreams, you are not moving your physical body and walking around in your sleep.

If this sleep paralysis is not functioning, you would be walking and talking and running around in the physical world while you are having a dream.

Dreaming and astral travel are very similar if not the same thing. The difference is that with astral travel, instead of creating a completely original dream environment, you simply remain in the current physical reality or the astral counterpart of your current physical environment. The two realities exist side by side.

Anyway, I was returning or just waking up from a dream or trip or whatever, and I noticed a person at the foot of my bed. He was giving me a foot massage. I still don't know who he was, but it was sure relaxing. He was not a physical entity. After I awoke completely, I could not see him.

I notice that we have had no input from any Christians (or any of the other major world religions for that matter). I'm wondering if there are any scholars out there who can tell us what any of the major religious texts have to say about it.

People have said that when they have an OOBE they can look back at their own body. So both that and remote viewing the test i have said could work. I never even brought up remote viewing, so unless you happen to be a moderator please dont tell me to stay on topic.



Well you are clever aint ya?! A troll? lol!

I may be new around here but i know a lot of people from elsewhere. If you take a look at my friends list i have met(In real life, not by remote viewing) over 20 of the people on it. So i am as real as you can get. You couldnt spot a troll if one crept up behind you and stuck his fist up your butt. I have a different opinion to you thats all, so i dont know why you are being so sappy and getting offended, and offensive in return about it.

Eckankar is a cult type religion whose main purpose was to teach soul travel and out of body stuff, as if they were the inventor of it... not. I was a member for a short time until the organization became cultish and uncomfortable.

From my experience some Christians look at it as occult or even Satanic. I met a number of religious people who have had near death experiences which involved out of body experiences, but they consider these to be a miracle rather than a natural out of body occurrence.

JB

Granted I have not read the complete text of the report from Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research. But I have read enough that I consider it to be verified - exclusive of my own personal experience.

There is nothing in my experience that could be demonstrated to be verifiable evidence, nor did I ever claim such, nor did I claim to be able to control the phenomenon, so of course I cannot prove my claims. But neither can anyone demonstrate verifiable evidence that it was a delusion or a dream or anything else. So I see no point in pursuing that line.



I have no reason to believe that the information in the Princeton Engineering Anaomalies Research report is inaccurate.