I touched on this already. In my first post I was assuming no spiritual being. My point is knowledge does not exist without a consciousness to obtain or have it. God is a consciousness and therefor can have knowledge, yet it could not exist before him for there would be noone to have the knowledge. (This assuming God is real)

geez "Chazster" the conversation is not about how the teletubbies or other artifical man made things was invented it is about how things like planets came into being if Man had no conscious knowledge of them

"Quikstepper" the Godhead was only limited to creating imperfection ..God never created anything that was perfect so the knowledge that could acheive perfection may not be possessed by God and may exist beyond God

The planet were there before we had knowledge of them. Existence and knowledge are two very different things. Apparently you don't have enough "knowledge" to understand the word knowledge.

sorry 'Chazster" ..but knowledge and existence goes hand in hand..you can't have one without the other...you in fact could not exist if the knowledge to bring you into existence didn't already exist

you were created and formed from prior knowledge ..without that prior knowledge you wouldn't be here unless you believe that you just spontaneously generated out of nothingness ..and even if you believe that... the knowledge to spontaneously generate still had to exist prior to you popping out of nothingness .. which suggest that even if God is "always was" the knowledge to accomplish that had to pre-date God's existence

I disagree, I existed before you had the knowledge that I did. Atoms existed before we had the knowledge that they existed. Lots of animals existed, before we ever discovered them.

well then "Chazster" ... explain why the same senerio doesn't apply to God

Unfortunately, I don't have the knowledge to explain how it applies to God. My other points still hold true either way. All you have to do is look at the meaning of the word knowledge.

Well lets abduct some aliens and find out!!!

"Chazster"...unfortunely your others points were nothing more that pantheism ... which is why I decided to ask you a question that would pop you back into the reality of the thread

now that you just admitted that you lack the knowledge at this point in time to answer that question doesn't mean the knowledge doesn't exist to answer it because it's clearly others that can answer it

you were trying to apply your lack of knowledge to everyone and all existence instead of just applying it yourself ..

LOL that question was laughable and no one has the knowledge to answer it. Your points still make as little sense as they did before and mine still hold valid. You still do the same tricks and ignore the meanings of words to try to get your points across. You can take my stuff out of context if you want and try to confuse people, but there are many that wont be tricked. They can go look up what the meaning of the word knowledge is for themselves.

'Chazster" you can play Dr. Phil and try to analize but the fact remains that it is you that can't answer the question simply because it's beyond your comprehension ..don't shoot the messenger and blame me for your lack of knowledge ..wipe the tears and come up with an answer

There you go trying to twist things. Was I not the one that stated I didn't have the knowledge to answer it, and that no one does. It was equivalent to asking "what is God thinking right now?"

Now its time for my magic trick.

Why weren't the angels part of the creation of the heavens?

The idea of "having a thought" - "or gaining knowledge" are time dependent concepts, interpreted through humanistic means. These would not pertain to God - he is not under the constraint of time. He would not have a thought, or need to gain more knowledge. As to his creation - He knew how it was going to end before He created it. What need is there of a thought, or of gaining knowledge. Knowledge about what?

"Chazster" the question is not about what God is thinking ..the question ask if knowledge had to exist before God in order for God to think ..you appear to not be able to grasp the concept of the original question

the bible makes no mention that the angels were created in the Heavens ...

"Eljay" Genesis dispute what you are saying ..Genesis states that God rested on the seventh day and to rest takes time it's no getting beyond that fact ..

so you can say that time doesn't apply to God because maybe God has a time machine like Dr. Who but Genesis dispute anyone saying that God is not affected by time simply because God had to rest on the seventh day

also for God to do what he does the knowledge to do it had to come from someplace ..even if one says that God created the knowledge then knowledge had to pre-date him in order for him to accomplish that feat

also if God never had a first thought only suggest that he can't remember it ..so that in itself is atleast one bit of knowledge God lacks

There is also arguably two versions of Genesis which don’t entirely run parallel to one another. At one point god creates everything instantaneously, in the conflicting version, it requires 6 days with one day of vacation time.

Is there any way to understand exactly what god's interpretation of "time" and the passing there of is exactly? Because additionally, it would be apparent that a normal human lifespan in genesis, could be upwards of 900 years.

Do we have ANY point of reference that is not simply conjecture based? Something along the lines of a "Rosetta stone" that was utilized in effect to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphic writings with? That would be a tremendous help.

Silly funches, tricks are for kids. And yes I already answered the question many times. Knowledge can not exist without someone or something there to gain it. There would be no knowledge before him, because there was nothing there to be knowledgeable about. Not to mention, he was always there, there is no "before God" so of course there was no knowledge before him.