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| Topic: did knowledge exist before God | |
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not sure funches, good question. my belief is that God is the first and last, alpha and omega, and all that, I believe we will all know the answers that we seek before judgement day, not a second chance, because with what is taught today, many, have never had a first chance 
"Sharpshooter" God may be the alpha but knowledge could be the pre-alpha ...also do you believe that God had a first thought "in the beginning" only suggest that God can conceive all knowledge within his own consciousness but doesn't mean no other knowledge exist outside his consciousness |
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I think the moral of the story is if you are going to start a thread, you have a personal responsibility to conduct yourself in a rational and logical manner which would include actually LISTENING to and digesting other opinions that might potentially conflict with your preconceived notions. I never called you a troll either. Also, there has been other problems of this designation or so I was just informed. "Krimsa" ..like Rambo told the sheriff in the movie "First Blood" ..let it go .. consider it all forgotten so lets get back to debating...so come on and explain how the big bang exploded without the existence of knowledge ..and in turn I will show you how man use that same knowledge now |
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No problem. I thought you wanted me to explain the Big Bang or how it became hot without anyone knowing about it?
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No problem. I thought you wanted me to explain the Big Bang or how it became hot without anyone knowing about it? same thing |
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Good luck, folks I know can't even agree on how to make a Bloody Mary
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hmm to answer your original question above - it is no - knowledge did not exist before god. nothing existed before god - god is the eternal entity. "Tribo" you are running to the safety of the bible and limiting the question to your religious belief so I will attempt to push you beyond that belief by asking you this question ..did God have a first thought HMM?? i thought this question was in refference to the biblical god ? how else can i answer but from within the confines of what the book claims him to be? if your talking of some other god let me know, cause i'm just wasting my time if its krishna, or zeus. |
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Edited by
tribo
on
Tue 09/02/08 02:54 PM
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hmm to answer your original question above - it is no - knowledge did not exist before god. nothing existed before god - god is the eternal entity. "Tribo" you are running to the safety of the bible and limiting the question to your religious belief so I will attempt to push you beyond that belief by asking you this question ..did God have a first thought by using the word >did< you imply a beginning and god had no beginning. if you care to reword it to ask ""could"" god have a FIRST thought? then the answer is god is capable of all things that don't go against any of his other attributes, since this would go against his infinite wisdom, then he could not have what you suggest, a first thought, god knew, knows [has all knowledge of] all things from eternity, you try to imply god has a beginning therefore would not have need of a first something/ anything, but according to the book - he is eternal -always was - always will be . which precludes him ever being in a position of not knowing all things. god is all knowledge, all intellect, all wisdom, all thought, there are no questions for him - only us. "Tribo"..again you are running to the bible .. this is not in the bible you probably have to use your own thoughts ...because if God can do anything then why is he incapable of having a first thought .. it's not the incapability, its the fact that if god supposedly knows everything there is to know or ask or be he has no need for first anythings - he has always and will always know everything or he is not god. his thought's are not of some time line where one begins and ends as in the time space scenario, we have been over this before. there are no first or ends as to god on a pesonal/diety level, nor his attributes or mind, or anything else including thoughts. |
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It was a joke. I can sit here and explain the scientific components but I already did that and you said that wasn't an answer to the posed question. You see, I dont buy into a "higher conscious" theory. That just doesn't hold water for me and its too arrogant for one thing. I view it in mathematical and physical terms and "knowledge" as you are describing it would not enter that equation. Its irrelevant to the problem.
So that is my position. However that doesn't make me right and you wrong. You have the option of now proving to me why exactly knowledge would be an indispensable factor in the execution of the creation of a universe. |
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hmm to answer your original question above - it is no - knowledge did not exist before god. nothing existed before god - god is the eternal entity. "Tribo" you are running to the safety of the bible and limiting the question to your religious belief so I will attempt to push you beyond that belief by asking you this question ..did God have a first thought HMM?? i thought this question was in refference to the biblical god ? how else can i answer but from within the confines of what the book claims him to be? if your talking of some other god let me know, cause i'm just wasting my time if its krishna, or zeus. ok 'Tribo".. then I will give you an easier question that won't get you in trouble with God that you forgot to answer in an earlier post .... if a God needs for naught then explain why God have a need to create lesser creature than himself ...surely you are allowed to answer that without God sending a thunder bolt at you |
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It was a joke. I can sit here and explain the scientific components but I already did that and you said that wasn't an answer to the posed question. You see, I dont buy into a "higher conscious" theory. That just doesn't hold water for me and its too arrogant for one thing. I view it in mathematical and physical terms and "knowledge" as you are describing it would not enter that equation. Its irrelevant to the problem. So that is my position. However that doesn't make me right and you wrong. You have the option of now proving to me why exactly knowledge would be an indispensable factor in the execution of the creation of a universe. "Krimsa" has it even dawn upon you that we are actually agreeing ..I never said knowledge needed a higher consciousness ..I said knowledge existed in the form of happenstance and circumstance ..in other words ..sh_t happens for something that lack consciousness to get hot it still must follow certain laws and that doesn't mean consciousness is required ..a conscious person has to use those same laws to make something hot ..it's the same knowledge and the same result you keep thinking I'm trying to prove the existence of God as the higher consciousness that control the big bang but that is not what I trying to do... I'm saying that for the big bang to happen the components that formed the catalyst had to follow certain physical laws to take place since you are new to the forum and believe that I'm pro-God shows that I try to debate each side fairly |
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No problem. I probably misunderstood where you were coming from. I have been debating like on three different threads now. I fully admit I didn't give yours the required attention it deserved. Carry on. Peace.
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hmm to answer your original question above - it is no - knowledge did not exist before god. nothing existed before god - god is the eternal entity. "Tribo" you are running to the safety of the bible and limiting the question to your religious belief so I will attempt to push you beyond that belief by asking you this question ..did God have a first thought HMM?? i thought this question was in refference to the biblical god ? how else can i answer but from within the confines of what the book claims him to be? if your talking of some other god let me know, cause i'm just wasting my time if its krishna, or zeus. ok 'Tribo".. then I will give you an easier question that won't get you in trouble with God that you forgot to answer in an earlier post .... if a God needs for naught then explain why God have a need to create lesser creature than himself ...surely you are allowed to answer that without God sending a thunder bolt at you  what makes you think i care or believe that god is going to strike me with a thunder bolt? i am only argueing from a biblical perspective i dont cling to any monotheistic god or gods ? your perception is wrong if you like i will let the believers anwer your questions - makes no never mind to me.
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No problem. I probably misunderstood where you were coming from. "Krimsa" ...that's clearly an understatment |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Tue 09/02/08 03:44 PM
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Okay dont start anymore arguments with me however.
 I'm definitely not some "Christian in denial". That was pretty rude of you. 
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hmm to answer your original question above - it is no - knowledge did not exist before god. nothing existed before god - god is the eternal entity. "Tribo" you are running to the safety of the bible and limiting the question to your religious belief so I will attempt to push you beyond that belief by asking you this question ..did God have a first thought HMM?? i thought this question was in refference to the biblical god ? how else can i answer but from within the confines of what the book claims him to be? if your talking of some other god let me know, cause i'm just wasting my time if its krishna, or zeus. ok 'Tribo".. then I will give you an easier question that won't get you in trouble with God that you forgot to answer in an earlier post .... if a God needs for naught then explain why God have a need to create lesser creature than himself ...surely you are allowed to answer that without God sending a thunder bolt at you what makes you think i care or believe that god is going to strike me with a thunder bolt? i am only argueing from a biblical perspective i dont cling to any monotheistic god or gods ? your perception is wrong if you like i will let the believers anwer your questions - makes no never mind to me.
wow "Tribo" ..why so testy ..I too was arguing from a biblical perspective ..doesn't God cause floods and plagues for those that defy him ...so it wouldn't take much for him to send down a couple of thunder bolts with your name on them .. so please 'Tribo" don't throw me to the believers |
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hmm to answer your original question above - it is no - knowledge did not exist before god. nothing existed before god - god is the eternal entity. "Tribo" you are running to the safety of the bible and limiting the question to your religious belief so I will attempt to push you beyond that belief by asking you this question ..did God have a first thought HMM?? i thought this question was in refference to the biblical god ? how else can i answer but from within the confines of what the book claims him to be? if your talking of some other god let me know, cause i'm just wasting my time if its krishna, or zeus. ok 'Tribo".. then I will give you an easier question that won't get you in trouble with God that you forgot to answer in an earlier post .... if a God needs for naught then explain why God have a need to create lesser creature than himself ...surely you are allowed to answer that without God sending a thunder bolt at you what makes you think i care or believe that god is going to strike me with a thunder bolt? i am only argueing from a biblical perspective i dont cling to any monotheistic god or gods ? your perception is wrong if you like i will let the believers anwer your questions - makes no never mind to me.
wow "Tribo" ..why so testy ..I too was arguing from a biblical perspective ..doesn't God cause floods and plagues for those that defy him ...so it wouldn't take much for him to send down a couple of thunder bolts with your name on them .. so please 'Tribo" don't throw me to the believers
you've already done that yourself funch. |
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Funch:
if a God needs for naught then explain why God have a need to create lesser creature than himself ...surely you are allowed to answer that without God sending a thunder bolt at you i can't answer that funch i wonder myself - just as i wonder if god really has infinite free will - it seems that if my take is correct on god being bound by his own character ie: omni qualities, the how can he have infinite free will, seems he's just like us in that sense only can have more than we do but not infinitely so. |
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Okay dont start anymore arguments with me however. I'm definitely not some "Christian in denial". That was pretty rude of you.
but "Krimsa" only because you called me the "T" word and as "Eljay" pointed out that's a Christian invention .. beside the forum will tell you that I'm never rude ..just ask those that you said are sending you those e-mails about me .. |
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Edited by
Krimsa
on
Tue 09/02/08 04:20 PM
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Once again find in my quote where I called you a troll and yes, I received a "fill in" on your past threads and some issues so that put it into perspective. It was not horribly negative or an indictment of your character but it clearly made sense of some of these ongoing problems that others have attested to. The member felt an obligation to tell me since Im newer.
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Funch: if a God needs for naught then explain why God have a need to create lesser creature than himself ...surely you are allowed to answer that without God sending a thunder bolt at you i can't answer that funch i wonder myself - just as i wonder if god really has infinite free will - it seems that if my take is correct on god being bound by his own character ie: omni qualities, the how can he have infinite free will, seems he's just like us in that sense only can have more than we do but not infinitely so. "Tribo" since God is not under the control of the laws of physics then God would have supposely infinite "Free Will" but only in a universe or universes that are under the jurisdiction of Quantum physics ...but anyplace else he may exist as we do |
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